Bigfoot in Native Legends

[Swede]

21 hours ago, Piney said:

I've explained that Maaniituu is the "Spiritual Essence" of Kiitaanituuwit "Creation" many times on this board. But I'll explain it again

Maaniituu is more like "The Force" in Star Wars than a actual spirit. It's the Essence of Creation in all things.

Hows that?  

Chuckle! As always, most commendable. In the past you have already dealt with the misuse of Wendigo/Windigo. As you know, there are so many others. As mentioned above, it would be an interesting study to compile a list of misused terms in an organized manner. Columns with headings such as Term (Name), Language, Actual Meaning. My files contain at least partial listings from "sources" such as Strain and others. Can supply such if you would have the time to sort through them. Believe that there is at least one other Lenape term other than the one you have already addressed. Would be happy to format the actual list as research progresses.

In many ways, the situation reminds me of cultural Lego-linguistics. Parties with little to no understanding of the various cultures involved grasp onto a term that, to their minds, "must" relate to Bigfoot, and is thus subsequently presented as "evidence". A poor practice indeed.

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[Piney]

2 minutes ago, Swede said:

Chuckle! As always, most commendable. In the past you have already dealt with the misuse of Wendigo/Windigo. As you know, there are so many others. As mentioned above, it would be an interesting study to compile a list of misused terms in an organized manner. Columns with headings such as Term (Name), Language, Actual Meaning. My files contain at least partial listings from "sources" such as Strain and others. Can supply such if you would have the time to sort through them. Believe that there is at least one other Lenape term other than the one you have already addressed. Would be happy to format the actual list as research progresses.

In many ways, the situation reminds me of cultural Lego-linguistics. Parties with little to no understanding of the various cultures involved grasp onto a term that, to their minds, "must" relate to Bigfoot, and is thus subsequently presented as "evidence". A poor practice indeed.

.

Even though I am breaking many rules and p***ing people off in Oklahoma and Canada with this thread ,there are some terms I won't use on the forum. 

On the aside I actually found a book about the Indians of New York City and apparently the author understood the concept of "Maanittu". I left the book at my stepsister's and I don't remember the name and title. 

 I'm sort of rebuilding my library but I'm leaving it in her house at Rowan because of space constraints.

[Podo]

In Straits Salish culture, the word sasquatch is derived. " Sasq'ets " means Wild Man of the Woods in the Salishan language Hul’q’umi’num’. Nations all across BC have different accounts of the sasquatch in their respective languages, however. In Nuučaan̓uł  it is known as the pukubts, who hangs out on the beach eating shells and cockles. It is said that he is a wild man, he's rather small, but he has big eyes and isn't safe to talk to. The Kwakwaka'wakw and other kwak'wala-speaking peoples have the bakwas, which is similar to the pukubts, but he is created when a man dies at sea and is abandoned by his comrades; he finds his way back to shore and is cursed to stay there for a long time, though not always for eternity. He is unsafe to talk to, similar to pukubts, though he will usually run away if approached and always tries to hide his face.

The Kwakwaka'wakw also have Dzunukwa, the wild woman and child-eater. She is a huge hairy humanoid that steals children and puts them in her basket, hanging them in her house and smoking them with her cookfires. She is also known to the Nuučaan̓ułath by the same name, but she chews tree gum and glues the eyes shut of her stolen children, forcing them to sit at her house forever, until she grows weary of their company and eats them. She (or one of her number, since it is unclear if she is one single figure or one of many) was defeated by Son of Mucus after stealing the daughter of the chief.

Some bands maintain that the bakwas and dzunukwa are consorts, working together to steal children, but this legend appears to have developed post-contact.

This is all stuff I've encountered via living on Vancouver Island and the West Coast all my life, as well as growing up with many native friends whose parents and grandparents told us a lot of stories, as a child. Some has also been taken from books written by members of the cultures the stories come from. If any west-coast native disagrees with anything I've said here, please take their words over mine

Edited April 10, 2018 by Podo

[Swede]

23 hours ago, Piney said:

Even though I am breaking many rules and p***ing people off in Oklahoma and Canada with this thread ,there are some terms I won't use on the forum. 

On the aside I actually found a book about the Indians of New York City and apparently the author understood the concept of "Maanittu". I left the book at my stepsister's and I don't remember the name and title. 

 I'm sort of rebuilding my library but I'm leaving it in her house at Rowan because of space constraints.

Yes, can well understand. 

Most pleased to learn that you are rebuilding your library. Am not familiar with the book that you are referring to. Ethnographic or a different field?

.

[Minimalists]

On 4/9/2018 at 6:24 PM, Piney said:

Even though I am breaking many rules and p***ing people off in Oklahoma and Canada with this thread ,there are some terms I won't use on the forum. 

On the aside I actually found a book about the Indians of New York City and apparently the author understood the concept of "Maanittu". I left the book at my stepsister's and I don't remember the name and title. 

 I'm sort of rebuilding my library but I'm leaving it in her house at Rowan because of space constraints.

I bet my wife wishes I would move my library to my sisters! Done started stacking books on TVs etc....

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Swede said:

Yes, can well understand. 

Most pleased to learn that you are rebuilding your library. Am not familiar with the book that you are referring to. Ethnographic or a different field?

.

Ethnographic but a obvious work by a advocational historian not a anthropologist.

[Night Walker]

On 4/10/2018 at 8:24 AM, Piney said:

Even though I am breaking many rules and p***ing people off ...

How so?

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Night Walker said:

How so?

Because of the "spiritual theft", misuse and misinterpretation of the Newage. 

[Night Walker]

52 minutes ago, Piney said:

Because of the "spiritual theft", misuse and misinterpretation of the Newage. 

This thread which you created is an opportunity for you to set to set the record straight, is it not? Essentially, you are providing a valuable service for your culture as well as fostering greater understanding among the broader population, are you not?

Specifically, which rules are you breaking?

Perhaps there are others who would be pleased with your actions here rather than p***ed off. And as yet, you haven't revealed anything that is not already freely available online...

Edited April 11, 2018 by Night Walker

[Piney]

31 minutes ago, Night Walker said:

This thread which you created is an opportunity for you to set to set the record straight, is it not? Essentially, you are providing a valuable service for your culture as well as fostering greater understanding among the broader population, are you not?

Specifically, which rules are you breaking?

Perhaps there are others who would be pleased with your actions here rather than p***ed off. And as yet, you haven't revealed anything that is not already freely available online...

Tribal law against discussing spiritual matters with outsiders and on the Net. My cousins the Stonefishs will flip.  Which makes me very happy!

[Oniomancer]

On 4/9/2018 at 6:24 PM, Piney said:

Even though I am breaking many rules and p***ing people off in Oklahoma and Canada with this thread ,there are some terms I won't use on the forum. 

On the aside I actually found a book about the Indians of New York City and apparently the author understood the concept of "Maanittu". I left the book at my stepsister's and I don't remember the name and title. 

 I'm sort of rebuilding my library but I'm leaving it in her house at Rowan because of space constraints.

That wouldn't be Edmund Wilson's book on the Mohawk high steel workers would it?

[Commander CMG]

54 minutes ago, Piney said:

Tribal law against discussing spiritual matters with outsiders and on the Net. My cousins the Stonefishs will flip.  Which makes me very happy!

I don't see any problem with this, I wouldn't like to see any Herbal, medicinal poisons shared though?  

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Oniomancer said:

That wouldn't be Edmund Wilson's book on the Mohawk high steel workers would it?

No, It was about the Lenape in New York. 

Aside, I worked with some of those guys and my last name "Joseph" was originally Mohawk and have some of their blood.

[internetperson]

3 hours ago, Piney said:

Tribal law against discussing spiritual matters with outsiders and on the Net. My cousins the Stonefishs will flip.  Which makes me very happy!

What's the definition of an outsider? Is this anyone outside NA (native american) culture? Hypothetically speaking if I were to rub elbows with NA's and over time became trusted, would folks teach me these things or is that still a no-no so to speak? 

Also is it okay to talk about NA culture outside of spiritual matters or is that still shunned by NA's? I imagine this can vary.

[Piney]

2 minutes ago, internetperson said:

What's the definition of an outsider? Is this anyone outside NA (native american) culture? Hypothetically speaking if I were to rub elbows with NA's and over time became trusted, would folks teach me these things or is that still a no-no so to speak? 

Also is it okay to talk about NA culture outside of spiritual matters or is that still shunned by NA's? I imagine this can vary.

That's about it. It just has to do with spiritual matters and trusted people are privy to it. 

I wrote about the Miisingk once in a email and the Stonefishs flipped. There are lurkers here but I haven't heard anything yet.

Screw it. I was burnt bad and I want a knock down, drag out spiritual war with the whole ****ing Confederation! 

[Podo]

1 hour ago, internetperson said:

What's the definition of an outsider? Is this anyone outside NA (native american) culture? Hypothetically speaking if I were to rub elbows with NA's and over time became trusted, would folks teach me these things or is that still a no-no so to speak? 

Also is it okay to talk about NA culture outside of spiritual matters or is that still shunned by NA's? I imagine this can vary.

I can say, as a white dude with German parents who grew up with many native friends and colleagues, that if you prove yourself to be respectful and a friend, you may be granted knowledge, stories, and traditions. If you befriend someone specifically to know their ways, however, you're going to have a real bad time.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Podo

[internetperson]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

I want a knock down, drag out spiritual war with the whole ****ing Confederation! 

Like this?

 

[Piney]

2 hours ago, internetperson said:

Like this?

 

I don't just go through the motions. I actually have the proper focus.

[Commander CMG]

@Piney Just come across a folder with loads of your photo's in it from an old back up computer, I think I backed them up while you were in Prison, Masks, pipes books, you and Mary Ellen, displays, war hammers etc etc.. 

[Unusual Tournament]

On 08/04/2018 at 2:23 PM, Piney said:

and a finished mask

no offence mate but it looks like Mick Jagger...

[Piney]

26 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

no offence mate but it looks like Mick Jagger...

  

 

1 hour ago, Iilaa'mpuul'xem said:

@Piney Just come across a folder with loads of your photo's in it from an old back up computer, I think I backed them up while you were in Prison, Masks, pipes books, you and Mary Ellen, displays, war hammers etc etc.. 

Awesome! Wait until I set up the new Laptop.

I was going to ask you if you saved everything after you stripped my tower empty. 

Edited June 18, 2018 by Piney

[Dunbaraj]

Great mask! Look at my profile picture for another 'ceremonial' mask of Sasquatch. There's also a ton of the 'Dzonqwa', or wild woman of the woods pieces. Most of these masks have pursed lips...  ape-ish whistling? 

[Piney]

39 minutes ago, Dunbaraj said:

Great mask! Look at my profile picture for another 'ceremonial' mask of Sasquatch. There's also a ton of the 'Dzonqwa', or wild woman of the woods pieces. Most of these masks have pursed lips...  ape-ish whistling? 

The Miissingkh  never had pursed lips, although some other False Face masks do. I wish I had pictures of a "Smearer" mask. They had pursed lips and rubbed you with feces if you didn't give them a wad of tobacco. 

[Podo]

On 6/24/2018 at 1:21 PM, Piney said:

The Miissingkh  never had pursed lips, although some other False Face masks do. I wish I had pictures of a "Smearer" mask. They had pursed lips and rubbed you with feces if you didn't give them a wad of tobacco. 

Which traditions are the Smearer from? It sounds similar to the stories I've heard of the Nuu-cha-nulth dzunuka, who seals children's faces with tree gum if she catches them.