Tatetopa Posted July 26, 2018 #76 Share Posted July 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, OverSword said: Bottom line is that if tariffs are lifted or reduced better for everyone. I don’t get rooting against this final goal regardless of who’s initiating it. Cut off nose to spite face I am for lifting tariffs. Did I seem to be rooting against that? I am not. All I am saying about China is that they will do what is best for China , no gratitude in this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted July 26, 2018 #77 Share Posted July 26, 2018 12 minutes ago, Gromdor said: Well, here's the problem. Some farmers have a good chunk of money and can fund their yearly operations out of pocket. Many however take out a loan at the beginning of every season to buy seed, fertilizer, fuel, etc. The loans can easily be a million dollars. So they take these loans, plant their crops and do their thing for the year expecting their crops to sell at a certain value at harvest time. Then along comes the tariffs. They can't sell their soybeans or corn or whatever for the expected price and then they start to default on the loan. The next year comes around, bank doesn't give them a loan, and well..... The end. Trade wars get pretty complex pretty fast don't they, and most of the casualties are from friendly fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidhead Posted July 26, 2018 #78 Share Posted July 26, 2018 20 minutes ago, Tatetopa said: They are not evil. They have an obligation to maximize income for their shareholders. That is it, their sole purpose. Everything else is feel good fluff that they are not legally required to do unless they enter into a contractual agreement. There was a time 120 years ago when the majority of people in America were farmers, tradesmen or worked for small businesses. People had skills, pride, and self reliance. Corporations have shaped our education system and our society to suit themselves. Now we want jobs not self reliance Corporations are not evil, neither are they benevolent. I'm incorporated and I am a one man business. When Trump lowered the corporate tax rate.. the number I cannot recall... I immediately thought how many businesses could now switch in the USA from sole proprietor or partnership to corporate. In Canada the Federal tax rate for corporations is 17%. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted July 26, 2018 #79 Share Posted July 26, 2018 2 hours ago, joc said: Actually it is a symbiotic relationship between you and me and the corporations. They have a responsibility to their shareholders. They also have a responsibility to their employees as well as their customers. They are not evil. Personally I would consider removing the true representation of the people in congress via lobbyists evil I'm not saying they're inherently evil as in with intent. As I said their intent is to increase their bottom line. The problem is that often means by ensuring what happens legislatively is good for them and bad for the individual or nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted July 26, 2018 #80 Share Posted July 26, 2018 57 minutes ago, Tatetopa said: I am for lifting tariffs. Did I seem to be rooting against that? I am not. All I am saying about China is that they will do what is best for China , no gratitude in this world. No I wasn’t accusing you of anything just saying. And of course China will look out for its own interests and so should everyone else. But in my opinion it’s in everyone’s interest to have open markets 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted July 26, 2018 #81 Share Posted July 26, 2018 4 hours ago, Farmer77 said: Personally I would consider removing the true representation of the people in congress via lobbyists evil I'm not saying they're inherently evil as in with intent. As I said their intent is to increase their bottom line. The problem is that often means by ensuring what happens legislatively is good for them and bad for the individual or nation. Well there you go...see, that, is another symbiotic relationship...that of the Lobbyists and Congress. They have created (Congress) a Gravy Train existence for themselves. Therein lies the greater evil. Basically they have sold us down the river to ensure their own riches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted July 26, 2018 #82 Share Posted July 26, 2018 1 minute ago, joc said: Well there you go...see, that, is another symbiotic relationship...that of the Lobbyists and Congress. They have created (Congress) a Gravy Train existence for themselves. Therein lies the greater evil. Basically they have sold us down the river to ensure their own riches. I agree that they are equal in their evils for sure but definitely dont give the corporations any kind of pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted July 26, 2018 #83 Share Posted July 26, 2018 4 hours ago, Tatetopa said: They are not evil. They have an obligation to maximize income for their shareholders. That is it, their sole purpose. Everything else is feel good fluff that they are not legally required to do unless they enter into a contractual agreement. There was a time 120 years ago when the majority of people in America were farmers, tradesmen or worked for small businesses. People had skills, pride, and self reliance. Corporations have shaped our education system and our society to suit themselves. Now we want jobs not self reliance Corporations are not evil, neither are they benevolent. It isn't corporations who shaped our education system into a platform of indoctrination into Socialist Ideology. That would be...the Leftists in Congress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted July 26, 2018 #84 Share Posted July 26, 2018 11 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: I agree that they are equal in their evils for sure but definitely dont give the corporations any kind of pass. Why not? You talk about The Corporations as though they are an Entity of one. Corporations don't legislate...and Congress doesn't create jobs...they are more than willing to sell us out to anyone..Corps, Foreign Countries, that is why we call It...The Swamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted July 26, 2018 #85 Share Posted July 26, 2018 12 minutes ago, joc said: It isn't corporations who shaped our education system into a platform of indoctrination into Socialist Ideology. That would be...the Leftists in Congress. Considering that congress has voted the corporate will for the past 30+ years its a little hard to blame congress without blaming the corporations as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted July 26, 2018 #86 Share Posted July 26, 2018 Just now, joc said: Corporations don't legislate. Man thats what im telling you, they do. Blaming congress alone is like blaming drug users without ever going after the dealer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted July 26, 2018 #87 Share Posted July 26, 2018 Just now, Farmer77 said: Man thats what im telling you, they do. Blaming congress alone is like blaming drug users without ever going after the dealer. I and if the drug dealers werent dealing drugs.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted July 26, 2018 #88 Share Posted July 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Considering that congress has voted the corporate will for the past 30+ years its a little hard to blame congress without blaming the corporations as well. That is why we need to...drain the swamp...starting with Paul Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted July 26, 2018 #89 Share Posted July 26, 2018 1 minute ago, joc said: That is why we need to...drain the swamp...starting with Paul Ryan. Im all for draining the swamp, starting with Trump, Pence, Mcconnel , Ryan, Feinstein, Waters etc etc. The problem is "drain the swamp" was campaign rhetoric designed by Cambridge Analyica based on statistical analysis and not an actual goal of Trump. As evidenced by the swampy folks he has surrounded himself with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted July 26, 2018 #90 Share Posted July 26, 2018 4 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Im all for draining the swamp, starting with Trump, Pence, Mcconnel , Ryan, Feinstein, Waters etc etc. The problem is "drain the swamp" was campaign rhetoric designed by Cambridge Analyica based on statistical analysis and not an actual goal of Trump. As evidenced by the swampy folks he has surrounded himself with. Oh please...Pompaio is The Swamp Thing? I think you are talking about The Bamster...who surrounded himself with the crust of the swamp...Hillary, Kerry, Susan Rice, Coney, Clapper...etc. Remember...rhe most transparent administration ever...GMWAS!!! ( gag me with a spoon) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted July 26, 2018 #91 Share Posted July 26, 2018 1 minute ago, joc said: Oh please...Pompaio is The Swamp Thing? Pompeo has been in government longer than ive been alive and look at Bolton one of the main architects and provocateurs of the Iraq war for non existent WMD's. The man literally is the reason ISIS exists. Those two are basically the epitome of the classic "swamp creatures" Then Pruitt who has been in the pockets of oil companies for decades. **** the guy has so much turnover I know im missing some. Further though I think one of the greatest scams of all time has been Trump's ability to make the public believe there is a line between the corporate elites and the political elites. These people operate in the same circles, they have the same friends, they work together on the same projects. The elites Trump has surrounded himself are no different than those he decries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted July 27, 2018 #92 Share Posted July 27, 2018 16 hours ago, Farmer77 said: Pompeo has been in government longer than ive been alive and look at Bolton one of the main architects and provocateurs of the Iraq war for non existent WMD's. The man literally is the reason ISIS exists. Those two are basically the epitome of the classic "swamp creatures" Then Pruitt who has been in the pockets of oil companies for decades. **** the guy has so much turnover I know im missing some. Further though I think one of the greatest scams of all time has been Trump's ability to make the public believe there is a line between the corporate elites and the political elites. These people operate in the same circles, they have the same friends, they work together on the same projects. The elites Trump has surrounded himself are no different than those he decries. You get an A-Plus... spoken like a true leftist socialist! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted July 27, 2018 #93 Share Posted July 27, 2018 22 hours ago, acidhead said: I'm incorporated and I am a one man business. Well Ok, some corporations may be borderline evil. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted July 27, 2018 #94 Share Posted July 27, 2018 18 hours ago, joc said: It isn't corporations who shaped our education system into a platform of indoctrination into Socialist Ideology. It was corporations who shaped our schools in the early 20th century to train workers with acceptable reading, math, and writing skills and a familiarity with regimentation necessary for large scale manufacturing. Start work when the bell rings, take a break when the bell rings, eat lunch when the bell rings, go home when the bell rings. Sort of Pavlovian. The socialist flavor if it exists has only been around since the late 70's. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted July 27, 2018 #95 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Considering the potential Trade concessions that the EU is probably going to have to make. And apparently are now Willing to make... I think China is going to also fall in line. If China had made a deal in the beginning they'd probably have gotten a better deal then they are eventually going to have to settle for. China doesn't hold the high ground in this trade war. They need the US a lot more then the US needs them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted July 27, 2018 #96 Share Posted July 27, 2018 5 hours ago, Tatetopa said: It was corporations who shaped our schools in the early 20th century to train workers with acceptable reading, math, and writing skills and a familiarity with regimentation necessary for large scale manufacturing. Start work when the bell rings, take a break when the bell rings, eat lunch when the bell rings, go home when the bell rings. Sort of Pavlovian. The socialist flavor if it exists has only been around since the late 70's. I graduated in 75. I remember my English teacher extolling the virtues of the USSR. ' They are just like we are. Everyone has a TV, stereos, noon boxes, etc..they get up and go to work like we do, etc.' She had visited the USSR so of course she was a good little Socialist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted August 8, 2018 #97 Share Posted August 8, 2018 Fairfield losing another 126 jobs after TV-maker closes plant, citing Trump tariffs Read more here: https://www.thestate.com/news/politics-government/article216196580.html#storylink=cpy Quote COLUMBIA, SC Beleaguered Fairfield County is losing another 126 jobs after TV-maker Element Electronics said Monday it will close its Winnsboro plant in response to tariffs imposed by President Donald Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted August 9, 2018 #98 Share Posted August 9, 2018 On 4/8/2018 at 6:56 PM, mysticwerewolf said: .I am surprised that we did not have a trade war many years ago. how many times did we catching them trying to poison our pets with their third rate products? And all the copy write infringements , and false brand labeling of those things they try to illegally ship over here. At least once a year I hear more about something or another being sent over here that was not made as we legally expect. to much lead in the paint or some type of poison in the dog food or something. I expected it long ago and if our politicians had a backbone.... We should prosecute all of the illegal occurrences and go after individuals and their companies, same way we put sanctions on Russian Oligarchs. American people will wind up paying the extra cost of tariffs. When the trade war is over, we will never get that money back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varelse Posted August 10, 2018 #99 Share Posted August 10, 2018 My company is caught between a rock and a hard place. Our two biggest competitors buy the same steel we do from the same Chinese suppliers but one has a base in Canada that they can import through and one's HQ in Europe. The products are 100% steel. They can finish (repackage) the final product and ship without the 10-25% tariffs we get hit with when buying Chinese steel. As much as we'd like to get all our steel here the capacity simply doesn't exist. What we do buy here is still more than if it was imported from China with 25% tariffs. What we're also seeing is that the rush to buy many raw materials before the tariffs hit created a slight surge in demand that is pushing some raw materials even higher. That's the hard place. The rock is that 80% of our business is related to agriculture... So "if toughing it out" means all us newly unemployed and homeless move in with you and your family to show the Chinese we can win then I say let's load them trade cannons with extra powder! (I have a strict diet, fart like king kong and drink out of the carton but it'll all be worth it when 1/2 of China is in an F150 crewcab and buying our ****ty crude shale to drive them) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Sam Posted August 10, 2018 #100 Share Posted August 10, 2018 (edited) Quote For instance, publishing an instant translation of what US President Donald Trump has posted on Twitter – a site that is banned in China – may be seen as an offence, the source said. Trump heightened trade hostilities this week by threatening to target another US$200 billion Chinese goods with additional tariffs, which pushed a concerned Beijing to rejig its rhetoric – moving away from a triumphalist tone to portraying itself as a victim of a reckless leader. Don't Mention Trade War, What China Doesn't Want People to Know Check out this video as well... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2018-07-23/trade-war-may-spark-a-chinese-debt-crisis-stevenson-yang-says-video Edited August 10, 2018 by Uncle Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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