Bible pulled from online stores in China

[Brother_Spirit 1,720]

Quote

Bibles pulled from online stores as China increases control of religion

(CNN)The Bible appears to have been removed from online marketplaces in China, as Beijing clamps down on how its citizens practice religion.

China has always controlled sales of the Bible, only allowing it to be distributed and printed by state-sanctioned churches, but in recent years it had been available to buy online.

[...]

 

"The possibility of the Bible's being removed because of planned efforts to engage in and publish official reinterpretations would fit with a broader effort by the atheist (Communist Party) to actively interpret religious scriptures that we've seen for Islam, Tibetan Buddhism, and to a lesser extent to date, Christianity," Cook said.

What do you think?

[and then 24,000]

4 minutes ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

What do you think?

That they have very good reason to be afraid    You cannot dominate an individual that has found freedom in Christ.  You can only imprison, torture or kill them.  Apparently, the world's most ruthless dictatorship appreciates this fact.

[XenoFish 56,337]

Freedom is an illusion. Be it physical or spiritual. 

[and then 24,000]

23 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Freedom is an illusion. Be it physical or spiritual. 

Since EVERYTHING can be thought to be an illusion... freedom seems to be as valid as anything else, eh?

[Stubbly_Dooright 10,296]

35 minutes ago, and then said:

That they have very good reason to be afraid    You cannot dominate an individual that has found freedom in Christ.  You can only imprison, torture or kill them.  Apparently, the world's most ruthless dictatorship appreciates this fact.

And you're thinking the ones who are doing the imprisonment, torture, and killing them, are the ones that should be afraid?! I don't know, being imprisoned, tortured and being killed, seems to be a pretty frightening thing to me. 

[Opus Magnus 237]

Well, after reading the communist manifesto last summer, and it's not long; like fifty pages or less. It's not surprising. Communism is directly opposed to all forms of religion. A prime directive of all communist governments is to eventually abolish all forms of religion into atheism. Though the manifesto promises to do this peacefully, that doesn't usually happen in reality, as with Russia's history to try and get rid of it with risings and fallings, and mass executions of believers. But, the church still stands in Russia.

[bison 1,421]

The Tao Te Ching and Analects of Confucius are still available in this country, online and otherwise, without government supervision. That is our strength and China's weakness. 

[Scudbuster 766]

1 hour ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

What do you think?

That's oppressive government control and it should not happen, but that's communism for you.

I'm an atheist, but if anyone wants to read the bible, by all means they should be allowed to do so. 

[Brother_Spirit 1,720]

49 minutes ago, Scudbuster said:

That's oppressive government control and it should not happen, but that's communism for you.

It usually starts with individuals who *hate* something (in this case, religion) and take it upon themselves to decide what's in the nation's best interest. The Communist Party of China wants to remove most form or religion and replace them with marxist atheism. For the well-being of the Chinese culture.

[LINK] 'Give up religion or face punishment,' says China's Communist Party to its members

Edited April 9 by Clockwork_Spirit

[joc 7,642]

2 hours ago, and then said:

That they have very good reason to be afraid    You cannot dominate an individual that has found freedom in Christ.  You can only imprison, torture or kill them.  Apparently, the world's most ruthless dictatorship appreciates this fact.

I think the above statement is true...even without the last two words of the sentence.  You cannot dominate an individual that has found freedom!   

[papageorge1 1,669]

2 hours ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

What do you think?

Who gets to make that decision in China? It shows how China and all dictatorships are still scumbag countries, unworthy of full respect in the modern world. We Americans and peoples of other freedom of thought nations must remember we are only forced to tolerate these type of countries but never condone them. Time and the future is not on the side of their old ways of thought-control. They will lose the intellectual war in the end, and eventually be remembered in history as the flailing of the last dinosaur nations. 

[joc 7,642]

19 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Who gets to make that decision in China? It shows how China and all dictatorships are still scumbag countries, unworthy of full respect in the modern world. We Americans and peoples of other freedom of thought nations must remember we are only forced to tolerate these type of countries but never condone them. Time and the future is not on the side of their old ways of thought-control. They will lose the intellectual war in the end, and eventually be remembered in history as the flailing of the last dinosaur nations. 

that is a nice dream....Tyranny has always been...The Way...with Humans.   Freedom is always in jeopardy...ever since it came into being.  And America is the Beacon of Freedom...but that beacon has been fading for many years.

[Goddess of the Mist 167]

2 hours ago, joc said:

And America is the Beacon of Freedom...but that beacon has been fading for many years.

So true! 

[third_eye 25,081]

Seems like Pope Francis ain't getting the kind of freedom as he's giving ...
 

Quote

 

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Cardinal Tong says Pope Francis is on the right track with China ...

https://www.americamagazine.org/.../2018/.../cardinal-tong-says-pope-francis-right-tra...

Mar 28, 2018 - The bishop emeritus of Hong Kong said, “Pope Francis promotes the Holy See's negotiations with China for the good of the church, to bring something good to the church and to the whole of humanity.”

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Vatican and China could sign deal on bishops 'after March ...

www.catholicherald.co.uk/.../2018/.../vatican-and-china-could-sign-deal-on-bishops-a...

Feb 20, 2018 - posted Tuesday, 20 Feb 2018 ... The Holy See and China are ready to sign an agreement on bishops after the end of March, an Italian newspaper has reported. Corriere della Serra quotes a ... Six Church leaders have appealed to Catholics in the Diocese of Ahiara following an ultimatum from Pope Francis ...

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China - Latest News :: Catholic News Agency (CNA)

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/tags/china

Analysis: Francis, China, and the art of the deal. Mar 28, 2018 - 12:00 pm .- If Vatican-brokered agreements negotiated under his leadership are any indication, it seems clear that when a deal is on the table, Pope Francis usually tries to take it.

 

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St Peter and the dragon: what's in a China-Vatican deal for Beijing?

www.thetablet.co.uk/.../st-peter-and-the-dragon-what-s-in-a-china-vatican-deal-for-be...

07 March 2018 | by Simon Scott Plummer ... Pope Francis has repeatedly expressed his wish to visit China. ... has asked two of the “underground” bishops whose loyalty is to Rome to make way for two who belong to the Catholic Patriotic Association (CPA), the body set up by the Communists in 1957 to control the Church.

~

 

~

Tigers and flies ... includes rats ...

~

[I'mConvinced 3,306]

*Sigh* We'll never learn will we.  Educate rather than obliterate.

[third_eye 25,081]

3 minutes ago, I'mConvinced said:

*Sigh* We'll never learn will we.  Educate rather than obliterate.

Its big money ... and its no secret most of the so called 'Churches' are skimming the skim for decades ... practically legally with legal cash money laundering

~

[ChaosRose 20,684]

7 hours ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

It usually starts with individuals who *hate* something (in this case, religion) and take it upon themselves to decide what's in the nation's best interest. The Communist Party of China wants to remove most form or religion and replace them with marxist atheism. For the well-being of the Chinese culture.

[LINK] 'Give up religion or face punishment,' says China's Communist Party to its members

It's about control.

They're not shutting down the churches. 

They just want to control the message.

Give it their own personal spin. 

The Catholic Church used to do the same thing back in the day. 

People couldn't just have their own copy. 

You came to mass and they said it in a language you probably didn't understand.

The only thing you really got was what the carefully selected artwork in the Cathedral was conveying. 

Usually, lots of Hellfire and damnation which you might be able to mitigate if you coughed up enough gold to the Church.

[ChaosRose 20,684]

Believe me...if they find the Bible useful in their quest to control the masses (and they surely should)...they'll keep it.

The masses won't be able to actually read it, but they'll preach to them the Gospel According to WhoeveriscurrentlyrulingChina.

[eight bits 5,909]

It's funny. Both China and the Roman Catholics are famous for taking the "long view," confident that on the timescale of millennia, each will endure and finally triumph.

So, for them, "what goes around, comes around" may extend over centuries. Viewed that way, let us recall that the Roman Catholics used to kill people for having a Bible in their own language. Now China bans online sales.

From the outside, where I sit (and thank you, God, for that), two authoritarian organizations with similar views about individual human freedom have gotten into a spat. Am I supposed to be surprised? Am I supposed to be rooting for one totalitarian regime to trounce the other?

[Kismit 7,815]

The freedom experiment is incredibly interesting isn't it.

Where does it begin and end?

With individuals?

With political groups?

With religions?

With political ideaologies?

Should we condemn China or learn from them? Are they bad guys or lessons?

Who knows,? Freedom. I have no idea who's right it is to express it. Or decide right from wrong.

[ChaosRose 20,684]

1 minute ago, eight bits said:

It's funny. Both China and the Roman Catholics are famous for taking the "long view," confident that on the timescale of millennia, each will endure and finally triumph.

So, for them, "what goes around, comes around" may extend over centuries. Viewed that way, let us recall that the Roman Catholics used to kill people for having a Bible in their own language. Now China bans online sales.

From the outside, where I sit (and thank you, God, for that), two authoritarian organizations with similar views about individual human freedom have gotten into a spat. Am I supposed to be surprised? Am I supposed to be rooting for one totalitarian regime to trounce the other?

Are they actually in a spat? 

Last I heard the Pope seemingly approved.

Probably hasn't heard about the online bibles yet, but apparently, he approves of the Communist Party Bishops they are appointing.

[ChaosRose 20,684]

5 minutes ago, Kismit said:

The freedom experiment is incredibly interesting isn't it.

Where does it begin and end?

With individuals?

With political groups?

With religions?

With political ideaologies?

Should we condemn China or learn from them? Are they bad guys or lessons?

Who knows,? Freedom. I have no idea who's right it is to express it. Or decide right from wrong.

Well, they're co-opting the bible and tweaking it to align somehow with Communist Party philosophies.

That can't be done if people can just buy their own copies online. 

It can be done if they're printing their own version and folks can buy it at their churches. 

[Piney 12,490]

3 hours ago, third_eye said:

Seems like Pope Francis ain't getting the kind of freedom as he's giving ...
 

~

Tigers and flies ... includes rats ...

~

Double like!

[Kismit 7,815]

4 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

Well, they're co-opting the bible and tweaking it to align somehow with Communist Party philosophies.

That can't be done if people can just buy their own copies online. 

It can be done if they're printing their own version and folks can buy it at their churches. 

Is it the first time a government or person in power has done that? 

Are there any lessons to looking at this from outside of a religous spectrum? 

What if, the Bible is just a book? Perhaps watching the way a Nation is influenced by a governments altering of the Bible could give people a greater insight into how we allow ourselves to be manipulated by Government influence.

This is a reflection of why you do not want something.

People cry out for freedom but often forget consequence.

They will tell you, Someone can believe and say what they want to. A woman can speak on campus to the rights of the Alt-right, influencing people to thier beliefs, but a country or political ideaolgy can not, because it does not fit with what we are taught is good and right?

What if we are wrong?

What if the picture is much, much bigger than that?

The freedom experiment, it is dodgy as all heck. Should we inforce boundaries or not?

[ChaosRose 20,684]

10 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Is it the first time a government or person in power has done that? 

Are there any lessons to looking at this from outside of a religous spectrum? 

What if, the Bible is just a book? Perhaps watching the way a Nation is influenced by a governments altering of the Bible could give people a greater insight into how we allow ourselves to be manipulated by Government influence.

This is a reflection of why you do not want something.

People cry out for freedom but often forget consequence.

They will tell you, Someone can believe and say what they want to. A woman can speak on campus to the rights of the Alt-right, influencing people to thier beliefs, but a country or political ideaolgy can not, because it does not fit with what we are taught is good and right?

What if we are wrong?

What if the picture is much, much bigger than that?

The freedom experiment, it is dodgy as all heck. Should we inforce boundaries or not?

No it's not the first time.

I even pointed that out.

This isn't a debate on the merits of the bible, though.

It's about a Communist country wanting to control every aspect of the lives of its people.

And they're doing it by lying to them, and in part by controlling their free access to information (in this case, information about a specific religion). 

It's not in the best interests of the people.

It's in the best interests of the ruling party.

So that they can bend it to make it appear as if Communism is Godly, or something like that. 

And no...that's not right. 

Edited April 9 by ChaosRose