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Captain Risky

Chemical experts to inspect attack site

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Just now, RoofGardener said:

Global ? Why... who would be on Russia's side ? 

Iran ? North Korea ? Syria ? A global war indeed.... not. :P 

Do you think China would sit idly by while the West took on Russia?

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RoofGardener
Just now, WoIverine said:

There's this already:

Aircraft Carrier Faceoff: American and Chinese Carriers Both in South China Sea

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/aircraft-carrier-faceoff-american-chinese-carriers-both-25278

The chinese carrier is not a threat. And the Chinese would have no interest in supporting Russia over a conflict in Syria !

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A rather obscure Bassoon
9 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

interesting that the western powers have taken so long to respond. long enough for the Russians to prepare and protect Assad so maybe they want more proof otherwise they would have struck by now, imo.

So you immediately assume it was Assad. Trump considers pulling out of Syria and two days later there is a Chemical attack .

Go Figure that.

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stevewinn

according to flight radar24 all planes now avoiding Syrian Airspace. except for one single Russian Plane. (heading out over the Med)

12e2693c-fe92-4fdf-bfc9-93d94641a325.png

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bee

 

The people (Globalists?) pulling the strings behind all this must be very pleased with themselves -

They have conned** Trump into basically fighting on the side of the Islamic State (if the US attacks)
It would be funny if it wasn't so mind numbingly insane...

Weakening the Syrian Army is strengthening the foreign terrorists and Islamic State affiliated groups...
Who the Assad Regime, with Russia's help are trying to rout out and remove.....

The media driven enemy switch is complete and now it's Russia Russia Russia.... and the US, France and the UK (maybe) will
risk everything to, in essence, support the Islamists who are trying to take over   -

*slow hand clap* 

 

** conned with a false flag propaganda operation that even a child could work out.... but not, apparently top politicians and world leaders 
(or they are just pretending they believe it - which makes them either stupid or liars....)

It's very frustrating witnessing this madness - 

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bee
8 hours ago, Lumpino said:

I have a a small question. If gases were used, wjhat for rescuers are not protected?:huh:They do not have any gas masks.

 

you don't need any protection in a fake chemical attack propaganda video... 

Personally I am sickened by the videos that the media keeps using of children being abused to try and persuade Western Countries
to go into Syria and fight for the Islamists -- 

 

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DarkHunter
8 hours ago, Lumpino said:

I have a a small question. If gases were used, wjhat for rescuers are not protected?:huh:They do not have any gas masks.

Depends on the chemical weapon used and how long after the attack.

Chlorine gas will dissipate relatively quickly in an open environment, in closed environments it will settle at the lowest point it can get to due it being like 2.5 times as dense as air if I remember its density correctly.  With chlorine gas being yellow it's rather easy to tell if an area is safe or not.

Sarin is actually almost never used in its gas form but instead in its liquid state where it can be dispersed as droplets.  The droplets evaporating is a danger but they tend to evaporate rather quickly, sarin has slightly lower vapor pressure then water but due to sarin generally not being present in the atmosphere it will generally evaporate faster.  Once in its gas state sarin also quickly dissipates to safe levels in a matter of minutes in an open environment.

Also if sarin is still in its liquid state it is water soluble so as long as you can douse yourself in water before it starts evaporating you would probably be fine as long as the water is drained away quickly, or if you used soap with the water you would be fine, soapy water has a pH of 12 which breaks the sarin molecule almost instantly rendering it harmless.

Depending on when the rescuers showed up they very well may not have needed chemical protection, especially if they got doused with water after entering the site.

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bee

 

well  @Lumpino you have two answers to your question....

and I have one for you (and Darkhunter if he wants to chip in) - if the so called ''''rebels'''' were having to leave and had all but completely lost -

would they pretend that they had been gassed by Assad or would they gas their own supporters... in a bid to change the outcome...?

I think they would- especially as martyrdom is considered a good thing in their religion when fighting for the cause.... in fact I think that
they believe it secures a place in heaven..... ?

   

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DarkHunter
1 hour ago, bee said:

 

well  @Lumpino you have two answers to your question....

and I have one for you (and Darkhunter if he wants to chip in) - if the so called ''''rebels'''' were having to leave and had all but completely lost -

would they pretend that they had been gassed by Assad or would they gas their own supporters... in a bid to change the outcome...?

I think they would- especially as martyrdom is considered a good thing in their religion when fighting for the cause.... in fact I think that
they believe it secures a place in heaven..... ?

   

That's an extremely leading question, only giving two possible outcomes that both back your position.  The most likely case is that Assad used chemical weapons instead of some massive and complex hoax involving hundreds of people or the rebels somehow getting the chemical weapons used in the attack.

In the Douma attack there were between 48 to 70 people killed and over 500 wounded.  Do you honestly believe that many people, most of them starving and terrified, would be able to pull off a massive and highly complex hoax which included videos and pictures of the victims of the chemical attack, both living and dead.

As for gassing themselves how would they manage to get the chemical weapon to begin with.  From the reports coming out from Douma it seems the attack were a mix of chlorine gas and some nerve agent.  Chlorine gas is common and wouldnt be impossible for the rebels to get but the problem is the symptoms of those exposed to the used chemical weapon dont all match chlorine gas exposure.  Chlorine gas kills largely from forming hypochlorous acid and hydrochloric acid inside the body, normally in the lungs and throat and causing suffocation.  The videos of living victims show extreme convulsions in some, common symptom of nerve agents, while videos of dead body shows some foaming at the mouth, which doesnt happen with chlorine gas but with nerve agents and cynide based chemical weapons. Of course without access to the site or to the dead bodies determining what exactly was used will be near impossible.

So if the rebels did use a nerve agent as the symptoms of the victims and dead bodies suggest then how exactly did the rebels get nerve agents.  All nerve agents, not just sarin, are hard to produce and store so how would they of got them.  The area has been under siege for a rather long time so it's not likely they just brought them in or made them, given the state of the rebels does anyone believe they had the millions of dollars and experience needed to produce nerve agents.  As for potentially storing them, that is just as hard if not harder then producing nerve agents as improper storage can easily cause nerve agents to be rendered inert within days or hours, most nerve agents stored in perfect conditions normally only remain viable for a few years before becoming inert.  

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Captain Risky
11 hours ago, Lumpino said:

I have a a small question. If gases were used, wjhat for rescuers are not protected?:huh:They do not have any gas masks.

You are correct. the first responders did not seem to be wearing any protective clothing. Maybe the areas were cleared? But then again small irregularities such as this in high stake games is just back ground noise to the powers that be.

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Captain Risky
4 hours ago, A rather obscure Bassoon said:

So you immediately assume it was Assad. Trump considers pulling out of Syria and two days later there is a Chemical attack .

Go Figure that.

no I don’t know anything for certain. Just guessing. It could be anyone or nobody. Who do you think did it?

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crookedspiral
6 hours ago, bee said:

They have conned** Trump into basically fighting on the side of the Islamic State (if the US attacks)
It would be funny if it wasn't so mind numbingly insane...

Trump conned himself. He has a tendancy to flip flop on any given subject, and has proved to be easily manipulated to provide an emotional response. That's why one day he is pulling out of Syria completely and the next he wants to start WWIII with Russia. That's not a President I'd want.

Edited by Clockwork_Spirit
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bee
6 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

That's an extremely leading question, only giving two possible outcomes that both back your position.  The most likely case is that Assad used chemical weapons instead of some massive and complex hoax involving hundreds of people or the rebels somehow getting the chemical weapons used in the attack.

In the Douma attack there were between 48 to 70 people killed and over 500 wounded.  Do you honestly believe that many people, most of them starving and terrified, would be able to pull off a massive and highly complex hoax which included videos and pictures of the victims of the chemical attack, both living and dead.

 

Yes - you know that the Islamic State affiliated Islamist groups are perfectly capable of creating a False Flag Fake chemical attack -
so you are arguing that logistically they must be innocent... and you are supposing it must have been a 'massive and highly complex hoax'
whereas in reality just a handful of people spreading fake reports would do the trick and video pictures prove nothing - the videos look
amateurish anyway as poor innocent children are hosed down and man handled - in a very accepting way -  

 

Quote

As for gassing themselves how would they manage to get the chemical weapon to begin with.  From the reports coming out from Douma it seems the attack were a mix of chlorine gas and some nerve agent.  Chlorine gas is common and wouldnt be impossible for the rebels to get but the problem is the symptoms of those exposed to the used chemical weapon dont all match chlorine gas exposure.  Chlorine gas kills largely from forming hypochlorous acid and hydrochloric acid inside the body, normally in the lungs and throat and causing suffocation.  The videos of living victims show extreme convulsions in some, common symptom of nerve agents, while videos of dead body shows some foaming at the mouth, which doesnt happen with chlorine gas but with nerve agents and cynide based chemical weapons. Of course without access to the site or to the dead bodies determining what exactly was used will be near impossible.

 

Sadly evidence can be faked if co-conspiritors who want to remove Assad and carve up Syria choose to do so.... but I don't think there is any
proposed official evidence of anything at the moment....

The Islamic State affiliated groups are an established network of foreign fighters and mercenaries - it doesn't have to be a group of 'starving and
terrified' victims that got it together...


 

Quote

So if the rebels did use a nerve agent as the symptoms of the victims and dead bodies suggest then how exactly did the rebels get nerve agents.  All nerve agents, not just sarin, are hard to produce and store so how would they of got them.  The area has been under siege for a rather long time so it's not likely they just brought them in or made them, given the state of the rebels does anyone believe they had the millions of dollars and experience needed to produce nerve agents.  As for potentially storing them, that is just as hard if not harder then producing nerve agents as improper storage can easily cause nerve agents to be rendered inert within days or hours, most nerve agents stored in perfect conditions normally only remain viable for a few years before becoming inert.  

 

Again - to my knowledge there is no official report on what ''''it'''' was ---- that's if there was anything at all -
beyond conventional attack... 

And outside forces are aiding the Islamic State affiliated '''rebels''' because it suits their agenda - so I'm sure there is no shortage
of assistance - from memory.....the so-called chemical attack in 2013 that nearly resulted in the Syrian Army being obliterated by
the US and allies ---- turned out to be --- I think it was sarin or something similar - turned out that it came through the Turkish
border and was an Al Nusra operation --- to try and draw in the West and they nearly pulled it off....

Had the West destroyed the Syrian Army then the 'Islamic State' would have swept through the whole country and there would have
been chaos and no turning back.... like what happened in Libya - and THAT was the handiwork of the US / France and UK -

It is perverse in the extreme that the US / France / UK (if the UK goes in) - should fight on the side of the Islamic State in Syria..
and against the legitimate government that is trying to save the country from Islamist take over and invasion...

 

 

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bee
3 hours ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

Trump conned himself. He has a tendancy to flip flop on any given subject, and has proved to be easily manipulated to provide an emotional response. That's why one day he is pulling out of Syria completely and the next he wants to start WWIII with Russia. That's not a President I'd want.

 

I think he is being fed fake but persuasive intelligence - and is kind of loosing the plot where Syria is concerned...

That he should threaten the Syrian Government and Russia with attack and be on the brink of reversing the fortunes of
 the Islamic State, foreign fighters and mercenaries who are trying to take over the country - beggars belief...

And that's without the potential for serious escalation..... does Trump REALLY want to be the New World Order's Fall Guy....?
Doing their dirty work and then.........THEN......... being hung out to dry anyway..........

 

Edited by bee

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crookedspiral
9 minutes ago, bee said:

 

I think he is being fed fake but persuasive intelligence - and is kind of loosing the plot where Syria is concerned...

That he should threaten the Syrian Government and Russia with attack and be on the brink of reversing the fortunes of
 the Islamic State, foreign fighters and mercenaries who are trying to take over the country - beggars belief...

 

 

 

 

Don't you think that Obama was being fed fake, persuasive intelligence? Yet, probably still in doubt, he did not order strikes on the Syrian government. At some point, you have to use your own judgement based on critical thinking. Which Trump seems to be severely lacking.

Edited by Clockwork_Spirit
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bee
21 minutes ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

Don't you think that Obama was being fed fake, persuasive intelligence? Yet, probably still in doubt, he did not order strikes on the Syrian government. At some point, you have to use your own judgement based on critical thinking. Which Trump seems to be severely lacking.

 

I think Obama was more in cahoots with the Globalist Agenda.... but ALSO (like Trump) expertly 'handled' by the intelligence services...

He decided not to follow through and destroy the Syrian Army because the British Parliament voted against going in and there
was a lot of opposition to it in America too ---  

I just think that Obama couldn't get away with it back in 2013 --- but would have if there had been a bit more support -

I do agree that Trump is severely lacking re critical thinking in regard to Syria at the moment - like he was last year - 
 

Edited by bee

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seanjo

LOL...this thread has gone full on tin foil hat conspiracy nut...unless, of course, Trump wants a World War 3 to ensure his next presidency!

 

This is Russia, Syria, and Iran's fault...not Trump's, Obama, maybe, could take some blame though.

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bee
9 minutes ago, seanjo said:

LOL...this thread has gone full on tin foil hat conspiracy nut...unless, of course, Trump wants a World War 3 to ensure his next presidency!

 

This is Russia, Syria, and Iran's fault...not Trump's, Obama, maybe, could take some blame though.

 

sounds like you support the Islamic State and other affiliated Islamist groups who want to invade and take over Syria...?

they are the ones who will benefit from Western intervention....

 

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A rather obscure Bassoon
7 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

no I don’t know anything for certain. Just guessing. It could be anyone or nobody. Who do you think did it?

That I don't know but it is all too convenient.

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RAyMO
2 minutes ago, A rather obscure Bassoon said:

That I don't know but it is all too convenient.

Who has the capability, who has the motive, who can get the information they want disseminated into homes and into intelligence agencies.

Do I trust our intelligence agencies to get this right? Not sure, the bar of proof seems low these day.

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Mr.United_Nations
1 hour ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

Don't you think that Obama was being fed fake, persuasive intelligence? Yet, probably still in doubt, he did not order strikes on the Syrian government. At some point, you have to use your own judgement based on critical thinking. Which Trump seems to be severely lacking.

Actually Obama nearly did but pulled out because of the Commons vote

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Mr.United_Nations
52 minutes ago, bee said:

 

I think Obama was more in cahoots with the Globalist Agenda.... but ALSO (like Trump) expertly 'handled' by the intelligence services...

He decided not to follow through and destroy the Syrian Army because the British Parliament voted against going in and there
was a lot of opposition to it in America too ---  

I just think that Obama couldn't get away with it back in 2013 --- but would have if there had been a bit more support -

I do agree that Trump is severely lacking re critical thinking in regard to Syria at the moment - like he was last year - 
 

I believe it was his daughter that convined him to do something and could be the case this time round

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RoofGardener
12 hours ago, stevewinn said:

according to flight radar24 all planes now avoiding Syrian Airspace. except for one single Russian Plane. (heading out over the Med)

12e2693c-fe92-4fdf-bfc9-93d94641a325.png

 

Thanks Steve, that is fascinating. 

One note of caution: is the absence of aircraft over Syria a recent phenomena ? (e.g. a reaction to a possible airstrike), or has it been like this for ages ? 

 

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bee
4 minutes ago, Mr.United_Nations said:

I believe it was his daughter that convined him to do something and could be the case this time round

 

hmmmm yes I remember now  I think she did have influence now you come to mention it.... 

(let's hope her husband didn't marry her to get deeply embedded in the Trump family )...... 

but if it was just the emotional ''''beautiful babies'''' thing .... well countless beautiful babies will have their lives ruined or be killed
if Syria fall to the Islamic State and other groups trying to get a piece of the Syria Cake.... and that number could run into millions if
there is escalation - Trump has religious beliefs I wonder how his conscience will cope when he is personally responsible for the
death of many many beautiful babies etc.....

Tony Blair is personally responsible for millions of deaths and ruined lives..... he became a catholic after the Iraq war - perhaps
the confessing helps him live with his conscience (if he has one) -

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