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Captain Risky

Chemical experts to inspect attack site

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RoofGardener
58 minutes ago, bee said:

 

critical thinking and open minded analysis is a safer bet than blind patriotism....... IMO

(I consider myself to be patriotic but that doesn't mean believing any old BS the government of the day chucks at us...)

I have to agree with that statement Bee. 

But there is a flip-side: critical thinking and open-minded analysis is a safer bet than blindly assuming that the "opposition" is correct, and that our own governments are automatically both (a) stupid, and (b) lying.

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bee
3 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

The problem is bee, that there's so much disinformation and BS around these days, that the smartest amongst us have trouble holding solid ground in an argument.

It's not about blind patriotism, it's about looking at history and the few facts that are available and deciding whether you want to plant your flag with your own country, or Russia, a nation allying themselves with the likes of the Syrian government - who have been reported for chemical weapon use multiple times from a range of sources - and Iran - another fine exemplar of human rights... Russia, a nation that has continually used its veto at the UN to block investigations into chemical attacks.

Britain isn't perfect. No nation is. Our current crop of politicians are probably amongst the worst we've had, but I refuse to believe that our intrinsic national values have deteriorated so much that we've sunk below a nation with a proven track record.

 

I'll tell you who I'm NOT ''''planting my flag with''''''  and that's the Islamic State and affiliated terrorist groups, mercenaries and foreign invaders
who would have turned Syria into another Libya if it wasn't for the Syrian Army with Russia's help.... 

If we help to weaken or destroy the Syrian Army then we are aiding and abetting the above mentioned groups and that to me is unbelievable -
that we would fight in support of the Islamists and Jihadists** - (aka Islamic State) you know----the ones who's supporters slit people's throats
on Waterloo Bridge....  chopped Lee Rigby's head off in broad daylight on the street then made a speech to camera, machete dripping with blood.......
the ones who gunned down god knows how many in Paris, blew young teenagers up in Manchester.... run people over with trucks  etc etc,,,,
I could go on but you get the picture..... 

I'm not hung up on all the anti Russia propaganda and I want the UK to have peaceful and friendly relations with them...

there are covert and shadowy forces that are working against that, I know.... and they are probably pulling Boris Johnson and Theresa
May and Donald Trump's strings at the moment --- 

  

 

 

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crookedspiral
23 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

 

How can you possibly claim that "there is no doubt this is a false flag operation" ? That is an outlandish claim !

What information do you have access to ? I mean.. dude... really ? :) 

Because there is absolutely no evidence that Assad did it and all the 'information' the West is relaying on this chemical attack comes from pro-opposition sources. This is quite clearly a set up and Trump fell for it once, so it's proven to work.

Edited by Clockwork_Spirit
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bee
9 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

I have to agree with that statement Bee. 

But there is a flip-side: critical thinking and open-minded analysis is a safer bet than blindly assuming that the "opposition" is correct, and that our own governments are automatically both (a) stupid, and (b) lying.

 

I'm not blindly assuming anything --- I have been supportive of Trump AND Theresa May up to this point --- (ask Vlad :) )

but ---- if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck then...............................
 

I cannot deny my own (extensive) dot connecting and just capitulate to what I perceive as dangerous propaganda that is NOT good for the country..
In fact more than that.... that could see the end of this country as we know it --- if the Syria conflict escalates into something MUCH  closer to home... 
ie war with Russia - 

I refuse to be mind controlled into believing that Russia is the enemy...

 

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bmk1245
2 hours ago, bee said:

[...]

I refuse to be mind controlled into believing that Russia is the enemy...

 

Yeah, Russkies (well, soviets) were best friends with nazi Germany back in 1939 when both were mauling Poland apart (mention this fact to Russian, and you will be called rusophobe, heh)  And USSR propaganda praised Germany as allies. Now, do you get the gist where I'm going to?

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Captain Risky
4 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

I have to agree with that statement Bee. 

But there is a flip-side: critical thinking and open-minded analysis is a safer bet than blindly assuming that the "opposition" is correct, and that our own governments are automatically both (a) stupid, and (b) lying.

thats fair. the truth is that the prime antagonists are more concerned with slinging mud over these chemical attacks and upping the ante than getting down to the truth and thats where people, myself included, start to wonder what's really happening. the last chemical attack Assad perpetrated on his own people American intelligence pin-pointed the air base and the planes that did it. why hasn't the same level of proof been presented now.   

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RoofGardener
11 hours ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

Because there is absolutely no evidence that Assad did it and all the 'information' the West is relaying on this chemical attack comes from pro-opposition sources. This is quite clearly a set up and Trump fell for it once, so it's proven to work.

Notwithstanding, to claim that there is "no doubt" that this is a false-flag operation is outrageous. By what standards of evidence do you suggest that there is "no doubt" ? 

On a different note; I would agree that we haven't been shown evidence of Assad's responsibility for this particular chemical weapons attack. However, consider this: the governments of both the UK and France are in agreement about it. THEY have seen the "evidence", and have come to the same conclusion. 

There is an old saying... something about being measured by the nature of your enemies. Well, Assad must be up for some sort of prize; he has united Britain and France in a military action. (and unusually - in a historical context - NOT against each other). :D 

Edited by RoofGardener
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Vlad the Mighty

So anyone think they're still likely to be able to inspect anything, or indeed get anywhere near the country, now that America's Giant Baby has pre-emptively made sure that no outsiders are likely to be allowed anywhere near ? What was it America's Giant Baby said (in one of his more coherent moments, that is)? To "punish Syria's Gassing Monster for a suspected gas attack"? So the American style of justice, as practiced by the nation's police forces, is now the official policy of Amercia's leadership, then. Punishing someone who's suspected of something. That really is a breakthrough in justice. But since America is now officially ruled by gangsters, who would expect anything else? 

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Phaeton80
11 hours ago, bmk1245 said:

Yeah, Russkies (well, soviets) were best friends with nazi Germany back in 1939 when both were mauling Poland apart (mention this fact to Russian, and you will be called rusophobe, heh)  And USSR propaganda praised Germany as allies. Now, do you get the gist where I'm going to?


Without US corporate support Nazi Germany could not have done what it did. Case in point, Henry Ford received the Grand Cross of the German Eagle for his avid Nazi support for godsake.

Get a f*ing sense of history, nuance why not.

henry_ford_grand_cross_1938.jpg

 

Russia won us the second world war against the Nazi's, without her the outcome would have been highly questionable, dont get it twisted.

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seanjo
On 13/04/2018 at 5:32 AM, AnchorSteam said:

In what way, exactly?

Are they wanting to search incoming aircraft for weapons heading for ISIS hands? 

 

This whole thing stinks on ice.

Assad has won, it is practically over, why would he use Chemical Weapons when that is the one thing that would bring the US into this mess.... just as Trump was pulling us out?!?

 

Why is it impossible that Assad's enemies did this? They already have, more than once.

If the US can't afford to build a fence along it's southern border, how can we afford to go to war with Syria, and by extension Russia too?

Has ANYONE thought this through?

Logic bomb;  if Russia fired missiles into Iraq when our men were there a dozen years ago, what would we have done about it?

 

THINK!   :angry:

THINK?? Go and research for yourself what obstacles Assad and Putin have put in the way of an investigation.

 

It beggars belief that people are actually supporting and believing a Russian Mafia drone, that has invaded two countries so far, and a Mass murderer that has kept his country in a dictatorship for decades.

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Lilly
13 minutes ago, seanjo said:

THINK?? Go and research for yourself what obstacles Assad and Putin have put in the way of an investigation.

 

 

There's the crux of the problem with trying to go in for an investigation. I highly suspect there was very compelling intelligence that caused both Great Britain and France to get on board so quickly. 

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ExpandMyMind
5 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

On a different note; I would agree that we haven't been shown evidence of Assad's responsibility for this particular chemical weapons attack. However, consider this: the governments of both the UK and France are in agreement about it. THEY have seen the "evidence", and have come to the same conclusion. 

This Reddit post and follow-up posts would seem to be essential reading on this subject.

I initially, before I read the above linked post, thought 'why would he do this after Trump announces he wants to leave and the war is pretty much won?'. I racked my brains for a logical answer and couldn't come up with one, but the answer is simple really: he's been doing it for years with no repercussions, so what incentive would there be to stop now?

I'm not above thinking that there's still a chance that they could all be false flags, but at some point you have to look at the situation and realise that it would be the most complex series of false flag attacks in history, that have left the same organisation that called BS on Saddam's WMDs with no doubt that Assad has been responsible. It's possible, but highly, highly unlikely.

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GlitterRose
22 hours ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

There is no doubt that this is a false flag. The question now is by whom and for what purpose.

That's complete bs. 

Investigations have found over and over and over and over and over again (I could go on) that Assad's regime used chemical weapons. 

There's absolutely no reason to believe him. 

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LV-426
5 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

Russia won us the second world war against the Nazi's, without her the outcome would have been highly questionable, dont get it twisted.

Hilarious! :lol:

Russia would have starved to death without Allied aid, particularly through the US lend-lease policy .

What did Russia do once the war started turning in favour of the Allies? Marched on Berlin, raping up to an estimated two million women and girls en route... ohh, and then split Europe in half for decades, leading to problems still acutely felt today.

Don't get it twisted you say? :rolleyes:

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crookedspiral
11 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Notwithstanding, to claim that there is "no doubt" that this is a false-flag operation is outrageous.

What's outragous is attacking a sovereign state and risking WWIII based on flimsy evidence (if at all) that Assad used chemical weapons in Douma.

Edited by Clockwork_Spirit
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RoofGardener
36 minutes ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

What's outragous is attacking a sovereign state and risking WWIII based on flimsy evidence (if at all) that Assad used chemical weapons in Douma.

Well, that seems evasive. Do you retract your statement that there is "no doubt" that this was a false flag operation ? 

Edited by RoofGardener
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Sir Smoke aLot
23 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

Investigations have found over and over and over and over and over again (I could go on) that Assad's regime used chemical weapons. 

You mean about investigation and results which are sealed in the UN with label ''open after 60 years'', 'investigation' which mister Jaafari mentioned at UNSC? Every investigation was done in Brussels. Could i investigate something extreme which happens in China from my warm chair in Sarajevo?

What investigation proved that Assad used chemical weapons? If you can provide some links i would be more than grateful.

[edit] to add : 

https://twitter.com/realDougBell/status/985201824843124736/photo/1

Even tho investigation proved that no trace of alleged chemicals were present at Barzah research center it was attacked regardless of the facts.

Edited by Sir Smoke aLot

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RoofGardener
21 hours ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

What's outragous is attacking a sovereign state and risking WWIII based on flimsy evidence (if at all) that Assad used chemical weapons in Douma.

NO, Clockwork_spirit. 

What is RELEVANT is that an overblown, unsubstantiated comment was made. And the author of that comment is STILL refusing to acknowledge the fact that it was WRONG. 

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GlitterRose

I'm sick of your propaganda. Both of you.

And it is propaganda. 

I already linked the wiki with the info on all the investigations.

And what have you got? 

Twitter. 

I'm done with you both. You've demonstrated where you stand, and it's in ****.

21 hours ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

What's outragous is attacking a sovereign state and risking WWIII based on flimsy evidence (if at all) that Assad used chemical weapons in Douma.

Nobody's risking WWIII by thwacking a dictator's capability to release chemical weapons on his own people. 

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RoofGardener
35 minutes ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

You mean about investigation and results which are sealed in the UN with label ''open after 60 years'',,,,,,

Really ? REALLY ? 

WOW.. that IS worrying. Can you confirm WHICH United Nations investigation results where "sealed" for "60 years" ? 

And which BRANCH of the United Nations was involved ? And they got all 196 members of the United Nations to agree to this sealage ? 

Did Russia agree to seal it ? 

Did America ? 

Did Iran ? 

Did China ?

Did the Federated States of Micronesia ? 

My GOODNESS... it MUST be bad to get a unique agreement by all 196 countries. 

So PLEASE... could you give us a link to this ? 

 

Edited by RoofGardener
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GlitterRose

Some of the propaganda that's being dredged up is so bad that it's getting blocked by the site. 

Find better ways of backing up your viewpoints, or get better viewpoints. 

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Sir Smoke aLot
1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

Really ? REALLY ? 

Yes.

1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

WOW.. that IS worrying. Can you confirm WHICH United Nations investigation results where "sealed" for "60 years" ? 

Yes it is. Those regarding use of chemical weapons in Syria from 2012 till 2017 or latest incident from 2016.

1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

Did Russia agree to seal it ?

Did Russia agree about invading Iraq? About West interference in Ukraine? About NATO placing it's forces near Russian borders?

1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

My GOODNESS... it MUST be bad to get a unique agreement by all 196 countries.

You must have missed a lot about how the UN and especially UNSC functions. Check Gadaffi speech from 2009 if i remember and points which he made regarding that. It didn't really played out well for him :)

Check Jaafari's request to Nikki Haley to address that issue, US representatives just left the meeting when it was brought to UNSC attention.

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GlitterRose

Hmm...how about Russian interference in Ukraine?

What about that?

There's this saying.

Don't start nuthin, won't be nuthin.

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GlitterRose

Investigation results have been released. 

Link your source that they haven't. 

I linked mine. 

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RoofGardener
15 hours ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

Yes.

Yes it is. Those regarding use of chemical weapons in Syria from 2012 till 2017 or latest incident from 2016.

Did Russia agree about invading Iraq? About West interference in Ukraine? About NATO placing it's forces near Russian borders?

You must have missed a lot about how the UN and especially UNSC functions. Check Gadaffi speech from 2009 if i remember and points which he made regarding that. It didn't really played out well for him :)

Check Jaafari's request to Nikki Haley to address that issue, US representatives just left the meeting when it was brought to UNSC attention.

So in other words the whole thing is made up ? :D  There IS no UN "investigation" that has been "sealed.... for 60 years", as you stated ? 

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