How old is the Sphinx ?

[jaylemurph]

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

you keep saying that you’ve read Schock’s report yet you miss the single biggest conclusion. Torrential rain does not care for elevation.

now who’s making the mistake?

You /do/ know how to correctly spell this man's last name, right? Because it seems like if you cannot spell the name of the man you're mindlessly quoting, you might want to pull back on the mindless quoting.

--Jaylemurph

[jaylemurph]

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

mate the Schock is a geologist and you are not. 

 

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. I’m interested in this theory of Schock’s. you don’t. no big deal still friends. 

 

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

you could very well be right and Schock wrong. but you need more to convince me.

So that's a solid response of, "Nooope. Don't know how to spell his name."

--Jaylemurph

[kmt_sesh]

5 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:

You /do/ know how to correctly spell this man's last name, right? Because it seems like if you cannot spell the name of the man you're mindlessly quoting, you might want to pull back on the mindless quoting.

--Jaylemurph

I was just coming in to take a final look before retiring and saw your post. It reminded me that I've been spelling the name wrong, too! How embarrassing. I try to get people's names right, even if they're wackadoo fringies.

Okay, I'm prepared to receive my punishment from those of the Floppy Ears.

And goodnight, all.

[Harte]

Schoch's date is based entirely on subsurface weathering and not on anything that happened above ground.

If you don't know this, then you haven't read Schoch's paper.

It's right there in the paper. All you have to do is read it.

Harte

[stereologist]

The funny thing here is that Schoch is counting on runoff as the erosional mechanism, not water seeping into the bedrock. What is interesting is that  he does not mention an erosional mechanism that is active today.

 

For the record Captain Risky here is the correct spelling: SCHOCH

http://www.robertschoch.com/sphinx.html

[stereologist]

7 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

I have provided a link to a geologist while you have not. Remember that. 

I ask questions and you quote me without bothering to answer. Where did the water go?

try this... remove the great pyramid and replace it with a 3 bedroom house, no gutter or down pipes. allow for the same amount of rain that caused the vertical water cracks on the Sphinx and I promise you even with run off the boat pits would have flooded and sent the boats down the Nile. 

now imagine a four sided pyramid with acres of surface area? 

Have a nice day.

As you have seen you have provided one name and one older paper .

You are incorrect that others have not been mentioned. Harrell has been mentioned. You really need to read the thread and avoid being the troll.

The rest of your post here is just mindless ramblings. You have no idea about the nature of the Giza plateau. You should take the time to learn about the issues at hand instead  of the mindless parroting.

[stereologist]

Lehner et al released information on Merer and other recent work in a documentary, There was mention there of a canal.

Quote

The estimated 2.3million blocks were dragged through a specially constructed system of canals to an inland port just yards away from the base of the pyramid.

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ancient-papyrus-reveals-secret-how-ancient-egyptians-built-great-pyramid-giza-2600bc-1640617

I've been looking for something more than a description. I've seen plenty of images showing water coming right below the Sphinx. I was under the impression from the documentary that the waterway was on the same flat area where the pyramids were constructed. I was wondering if it was possible that the erosion by the Sphinx was in part due to leaks in this canal. Combined with haloclasty this might form erosional marks in a short period of time.

Here is another more  in depth newspaper article

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/10/06/did-egyptians-create-canal-and-port-bring-stone-great-pyramid/xtoi4NzlTz9PYRo2QnmG0M/story.html

Quote

Quote

After the presentation, Tallet said to Lehner, “This should put the nail in the coffin of the alternative theorists” who have attributed the building of the pyramids to extraterrestrials or the lost citizens of the legendary civilization of Atlantis.

“We kind of looked at each other and then shook our heads and then said, ‘No, it’s not going to stop all that,’” Lehner said.

 

Here is an article on the person that found the Merer papyri.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ancient-egypt-shipping-mining-farming-economy-pyramids-180956619/

 

[ShadowSot]

11 hours ago, strunk64 said:

I have a few questions, not specifically related to the Sphinx. I think you said the pyramids and sphinx were built on the bedrock, sitting directly on it? They had to remove a lot of sand to build, how do you think they kept the sand at bay while they were building the bases?

Don't think there was a lot of sand in the plateau at the time. 

 Though the Sphinx was covered up to its neck later on and was restored by Thutmos IV. It'd be interesting, but I don't know anything about how they may have done it besides having a large team of workers. It also depends on how the sand was deposited. 

Quote

I read somewhere, I don't remember where, that the enclosure around the Sphinx was a pool. That it had a sluice gate on a side of the enclosure and they could let water in when they wanted too. Any idea if thats true?

Did the sphinx have cladding like the pyramids at one time?

The Sphinx is a statue, so no. It did use to boast paint. 

Quote

Concerning the underground room in the Great Pyramid, why was there a "well" underneath it and where could the unfinished tunnel going past the room have been going too? I wonder if they were intending to join it to another building.?

Useful reading :

https://www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/queenschambergp.html

 

Quote

Do the other pyramids there have any tunnels or rooms? I've never read anything about them.

Thanks for any answers to my questions.

They pretty much all do, except one to my knowledge. And in that case the person was already dead, so they didn't require a tunnel leading in. 

 

[lakeview rud]

Hi folks, I don't agree with the contention that weak stone caused the sculptors to make the head small.  You sculpt from the top down so you would know what you're getting into.  The AE's made exquisite items large and small so "no way".  It's much more likely that a later pharoah re-made the Sphinx in his own image.  I remember a chunk of beard being found that fell off many years ago.  Also remember someone analyzing the headdress "lines" and claiming that the style was from a later era than the pyramids. Someone also did a facial recognition which didn't line up well with Khufu.  As with the dating game, no real proof of this; could just as easily be that of Henry, one of the three original Bassett Masters.

[jaylemurph]

1 hour ago, lakeview rud said:

Hi folks, I don't agree with the contention that weak stone caused the sculptors to make the head small.  You sculpt from the top down so you would know what you're getting into.  The AE's made exquisite items large and small so "no way".  It's much more likely that a later pharoah re-made the Sphinx in his own image.  I remember a chunk of beard being found that fell off many years ago.  Also remember someone analyzing the headdress "lines" and claiming that the style was from a later era than the pyramids. Someone also did a facial recognition which didn't line up well with Khufu.  As with the dating game, no real proof of this; could just as easily be that of Henry, one of the three original Bassett Masters.

Whose drool is lubricious and plentiful, praise unto his ears.

--Jaylemurph

[Harte]

18 hours ago, strunk64 said:

I have a few questions, not specifically related to the Sphinx. I think you said the pyramids and sphinx were built on the bedrock, sitting directly on it? They had to remove a lot of sand to build, how do you think they kept the sand at bay while they were building the bases?

The sphinx was not built, it was carved out of a protrusion sticking up out of the ground and is therefore bedrock itself.

18 hours ago, strunk64 said:

Did the sphinx have cladding like the pyramids at one time?

Yes, it still does. The sphinx body was roughly carved out then covered over with stones that were then carved into the shape you see. Some of those stones were replaced over the centuries.

2 hours ago, lakeview rud said:

Hi folks, I don't agree with the contention that weak stone caused the sculptors to make the head small.  You sculpt from the top down so you would know what you're getting into.

Which is why it might explain the small head, once the weak layer was reached. There's no knowing whether the enclosure was quarried out before the body was shaped. If so, then the quarry pre-determined the size of the body.

I mentioned other reasons that have been put forward. One reasonable one is that there is a visible crack in the bedrock that runs crossways across the sphinx's back in front of the hindquarters. If you make the body proportional to the head, that crack would be positioned just in front of the rear end of the sphinx, which would make the backside fall off eventually. So that theory is that, upon discovering this, it was decided to lengthen the body to put the crack safely further in towards the center of the body.

2 hours ago, lakeview rud said:

  The AE's made exquisite items large and small so "no way".  It's much more likely that a later pharoah re-made the Sphinx in his own image.  I remember a chunk of beard being found that fell off many years ago.  Also remember someone analyzing the headdress "lines" and claiming that the style was from a later era than the pyramids. Someone also did a facial recognition which didn't line up well with Khufu.  As with the dating game, no real proof of this; could just as easily be that of Henry, one of the three original Bassett Masters.

You can be certain that the neck area would not support a larger head. The head was about ready to fall right off several centuries ago. This damaged area has since been reinforced with concrete, which is obvious when comparing old photos with new ones.

That, of course, doesn't mean the sphinx's face wasn't re-carved at same point. But the head - probably not.

Harte

[strunk64]

Thank you, ShadowSot and Harte.

 

[ShadowSot]

5 hours ago, Harte said:

Yes, it still does. The sphinx body was roughly carved out then covered over with stones that were then carved into the shape you see. Some of those stones were replaced over the centuries.

Ah, that's reasons why I don't like these posts getting buried. I was wrong. 

[strunk64]

4 hours ago, ShadowSot said:

Ah, that's reasons why I don't like these posts getting buried. I was wrong. 

Actually, I thought the sphinx was covered with a bad cement job. I'm sure the Sphinx looked very different whenever it was made. It was probably painted too. BTW, I'm still wondering about that underground room. It's just, why was it there. With the dead end tunnel and the pit or well. I suppose we will never know unless documentation of some kind is found. Thanks for answering me.

[Harte]

7 hours ago, ShadowSot said:

Ah, that's reasons why I don't like these posts getting buried. I was wrong. 

Not really. The upper parts were and are still exposed bedrock. It was the lower parts that were clad.

Harte

[ShadowSot]

3 hours ago, strunk64 said:

Actually, I thought the sphinx was covered with a bad cement job. I'm sure the Sphinx looked very different whenever it was made. It was probably painted too. BTW, I'm still wondering about that underground room. It's just, why was it there. With the dead end tunnel and the pit or well. I suppose we will never know unless documentation of some kind is found. Thanks for answering me.

Did you read through the link? Gives a rundown if the basic theories and how they relate to what we know of Egyptian culture. 

1 minute ago, Harte said:

Not really. The upper parts were and are still exposed bedrock. It was the lower parts that were clad.

Harte

My understanding was that that cladding wasn't original, but from repair work through the ages? 

[Harte]

3 hours ago, strunk64 said:

Actually, I thought the sphinx was covered with a bad cement job.

Circa 1880:

Today:

Harte

 

[Harte]

10 minutes ago, ShadowSot said:

Did you read through the link? Gives a rundown if the basic theories and how they relate to what we know of Egyptian culture. 

My understanding was that that cladding wasn't original, but from repair work through the ages? 

Guess we'll have to consult the mummy overlord.

I seem to remember the lower parts were clad, and some of the cladding was replaced.

Harte

[lakeview rud]

Harte's photos tell the tale.  Looks like the headdress (nemes?) completely re-done.  This thing has had more bad make-overs than Joan Rivers and Phyllis Diller combined.  Once the first pharaoh (Tutmos IV?) re-did the face it was fair game for any future pharaohs to do likewise. There's also a hole on top of the head for something.  Maybe they played "Mr. Potato Head" with this sculpture.  The portion sticking up out of the sand ( or whatever before the stone enclosure was quarried out) may have had something totally different prior to the pyramid building era.  Likely, we'll never know.

[Unusual Tournament]

On 4/16/2018 at 2:52 PM, jaylemurph said:

You /do/ know how to correctly spell this man's last name, right? Because it seems like if you cannot spell the name of the man you're mindlessly quoting, you might want to pull back on the mindless quoting.

--Jaylemurph

LOL... you do realise that his name is pronounced 'shock' there lies the confusion. 

[Unusual Tournament]

well, all in all, we can agree that at some point the head was remodelled and current head carving is not the original. 

[ShadowSot]

Just now, Captain Risky said:

well, all in all, we can agree that at some point the head was remodelled and current head carving is not the original. 

No, of course not. 

[Unusual Tournament]

1 minute ago, ShadowSot said:

No, of course not. 

coming from someone with your avatar I'm surprised. 

[jaylemurph]

2 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

LOL... you do realise that his name is pronounced 'shock' there lies the confusion. 

Well, not so much confusion as "too lazy to check sources."

--Jaylemurph

 

[kmt_sesh]

2 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

well, all in all, we can agree that at some point the head was remodelled and current head carving is not the original. 

Nope.