The transportation means of ancient Mexico

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Roc Koch said:

Sorry you cannot make the connections to this conceptualization. It is good that there are those in my community that think it is highly possible that the ancient Mexicans did indeed make use of the numerous rubber ball bearings found all over Mexico. It will all soon come to light. Thanks for your opinion. 

I work at a historical sawmill and work on old farm and logging machinery and I don't see how a rubber ball bearing could possibly work. Especially under a load.  

[jaylemurph]

5 hours ago, Roc Koch said:

Sorry you cannot make the connections to this conceptualization. It is good that there are those in my community that think it is highly possible that the ancient Mexicans did indeed make use of the numerous rubber ball bearings found all over Mexico. It will all soon come to light. Thanks for your opinion. 

Oh, no. We've been intellectually snubbed by a Communications professor. 

Oh, the pain. The pain.

--Jaylemurph

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

I suppose if you had a tray that stopped the rubber ball from rolling away, you could support something on top of the tray and roll it around, but there’s still the deformation factor. I think I need to see it do in order to find the feasible. 

[danydandan]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1330917/Stonehenge-builders-used-ball-bearings-giant-slabs-stone.html

Maybe he is on to something here. The article above shows a test carried out on a theory regarding how the stones at Stonehenge were transported. It seems a bit more feasible now.

I should add, I don't think it's feasible with rubber.

Edited April 23, 2018 by danydandan

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

9 minutes ago, danydandan said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1330917/Stonehenge-builders-used-ball-bearings-giant-slabs-stone.html

Maybe he is on to something here. The article above shows a test carried out on a theory regarding how the stones at Stonehenge were transported. It seems a bit more feasible now.

Well now. Isn’t that interesting. 

By george, it could work! Still not quite sure how it’d work with rubber balls though. But the mechanics looks sound.

[danydandan]

1 minute ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Well now. Isn’t that interesting. 

By george, it could work! Still not quite sure how it’d work with rubber balls though. But the mechanics looks sound.

I agree I don't think it's feasible with rubber.

[Roc Koch]

Hard rubber is indeed hard if its core is Heavy River Rock. The Olmecs sought the hardest, rounded rocks. Then they wrapped them in rubber strips to conform the object into a perfect sphere. In my youth (11 or 12), my father ran a number of tire stores. I took inner-tubes and cut strips to wrap around some rounded stones that we found at the river. They were almost perfectly rounded, but the rubber strips I used to wrap the stones allowed me to make the stones more rounded. We played with some of them but our baseballs were better to make our own elements. We put our toys in boxes and rolled them around in the garage. Later we tried to move them on the sidewalks to play with our neighbors using heavier objects. It worked well.  

Edited April 23, 2018 by Roc Koch

[Aus Der Box Skeptisch]

Logs and rivers have no bearing in this conversation?

[danydandan]

13 minutes ago, Aus Der Box Skeptisch said:

Logs and rivers have no bearing in this conversation?

Not really to be honest. It's just about a possible method of moving large stones using rubber balls.

[Aus Der Box Skeptisch]

I have a dry humor

[Piney]

4 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

Oh, no. We've been intellectually snubbed by a Communications professor. 

Oh, the pain. The pain.

--Jaylemurph

I'm still reeling over the fact that I spent all that time and money at Rutgers and the U of Penn when I could of just asked a White channeler...

[Swede]

2 hours ago, Roc Koch said:

Hard rubber is indeed hard if its core is Heavy River Rock. The Olmecs sought the hardest, rounded rocks. Then they wrapped them in rubber strips to conform the object into a perfect sphere. In my youth (11 or 12), my father ran a number of tire stores. I took inner-tubes and cut strips to wrap around some rounded stones that we found at the river. They were almost perfectly rounded, but the rubber strips I used to wrap the stones allowed me to make the stones more rounded. We played with some of them but our baseballs were better to make our own elements. We put our toys in boxes and rolled them around in the garage. Later we tried to move them on the sidewalks to play with our neighbors using heavier objects. It worked well.  

The anecdotes of your youth would not be consistent with the realities. As a modern example, one may simply note the abrasion effects on modern (and highly sophisticated) synthetic "rubbers" as evidenced by pavement-related tire wear. One could also utilize the many comparatives in regards to much softer-compound racing tires. One must then consider that, based upon your conjecture, the natural latex surrounds a much more dense/durable substrate. This would naturally increase the stress on the natural latex. As a further comparative, one must also compare and contrast the psi pressure of a small sphere as opposed to that of the footprint of a common tire which, in itself, is surprisingly limited.

One must further consider the far from "smooth" nature of past causeways. And the fact that such causeways may not directly connect the quarrying and installation locations. One must then additionally consider the practicality/labor of enveloping a structurally substantial lithic sphere in an easily degraded natural latex that would rapidly fail under the proposed stress loads.

In short, your proposal would be neither functional nor economically viable. Utilizing simple lithic or floral spheres would naturally be notably more efficient. Unfortunately, for your position, there would not appear to be any substantial evidence for this latter.

Edit: Punctuation.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Swede

[jmccr8]

5 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

I suppose if you had a tray that stopped the rubber ball from rolling away, you could support something on top of the tray and roll it around, but there’s still the deformation factor. I think I need to see it do in order to find the feasible. 

Hi WOH

I think that it would need some form of lubrication to reduce heat from friction as rubber doesn't work so good when it's hot and efficientcy is lost

jmccr8

[Piney]

18 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi WOH

I think that it would need some form of lubrication to reduce heat from friction as rubber doesn't work so good when it's hot and efficientcy is lost

jmccr8

Corn oil...

[Roc Koch]

Those are all good points, but I am sure that the generality of this concept was not as impactful to them, as it is to many here. I have seen the ingenuity of the people of Mexico and if they can move cars by just shaking them across the highway without having a key to start the engine and stealing a vehicle that way, they can move mountains with a little rubber and a few rounded river rocks. If you have large stones to move without the wheel or draft animals then the optimum strategy would be to take a lesson from a great game that they all loved to involve themselves therein, then it does not take a great leap of inspiration to see how they would make the next step and try a methodology to leverage a few large payloads down the pre-arranged causeways that were done prior to building their large pyramids. The other alternative is to throw in the Ancient Alien story. 

 

[jmccr8]

14 minutes ago, Piney said:

Corn oil...

Hi Piney

Could be but but then would there be traces of it in soil samples from the causeways and compaction traits just like old wagon trails did.

jmccr8

Edited April 24, 2018 by jmccr8
Fat fingers or the devil made me do it

[jmccr8]

20 minutes ago, Roc Koch said:

Those are all good points, but I am sure that the generality of this concept was not as impactful to them, as it is to many here. I have seen the ingenuity of the people of Mexico and if they can move cars by just shaking them across the highway without having a key to start the engine and stealing a vehicle that way, they can move mountains with a little rubber and a few rounded river rocks. If you have large stones to move without the wheel or draft animals then the optimum strategy would be to take a lesson from a great game that they all loved to involve themselves therein, then it does not take a great leap of inspiration to see how they would make the next step and try a methodology to leverage a few large payloads down the pre-arranged causeways that were done prior to building their large pyramids. The other alternative is to throw in the Ancient Alien story. 

 

Hi Roc

I doubt that we can compare the capabilities of the rubber composites that we have today. When rubber gets hot it changes and can cease up a moving part. How many river rock coated bearings were found of identical size because they would need a significant volume to do the job and feed progression. If the collection just has random sized balls I am not sure that they wouldn't have had more problems for controlling the load if the balls were not same size.

I have seen rubber get hot enough to burn, I would be interested in seeing some researched and documentated study on stones found in rubber. The blog didn't actually give any in that sense and without credible analysis submitted to review so it basically falls into the opinion bin for me. But interesting idea anyway.

jmccr8

[danydandan]

3 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Roc

I doubt that we can compare the capabilities of the rubber composites that we have today. When rubber gets hot it changes and can cease up a moving part. How many river rock coated bearings were found of identical size because they would need a significant volume to do the job and feed progression. If the collection just has random sized balls I am not sure that they wouldn't have had more problems for controlling the load if the balls were not same size.

I have seen rubber get hot enough to burn, I would be interested in seeing some researched and documentated study on stones found in rubber. The blog didn't actually give any in that sense and without credible analysis submitted to review so it basically falls into the opinion bin for me. But interesting idea anyway.

jmccr8

I think if it was done it was done with rounded stones and rubber played no part in it. Why would they make the process more difficult? Also the rubber would rupture at the seems under the weight of the stones and friction caused by moving.

[Piney]

7 hours ago, Roc Koch said:

I have seen the ingenuity of the people of Mexico and if they can move cars by just shaking them across the highway without having a key to start the engine and stealing a vehicle that way

We can also have a Brujo shake your pants until your money falls out. 

Edited April 24, 2018 by Piney

[Peter Cox]

Hmmmmm didnt they have pick up trucks heavy loading equipment back then?

Just on that point.... Tyers are rubber and work well on my bike and car... Maybe not on the bike seeing as I had a crash the other day lol

[Roc Koch]

There are various collections of rubberized balls of the same size found near the ancient complexes of Mexico. They have of course deteriorated over some 500 to 700 years, but they still offer up the potential of the utilization for these products to act as free-throw ball-bearings to be put under a platform structure holding heavy loads to move them up and down a causeway that accessed the building sites. To me, it is a no-brainer since my brother and I moved stuff around our neighborhood when we were  just little kids. How hard would it be if someone began to create these balls to later move toward using their power to move things around a building site? Who needs a wheel when you have rubberized balls and then, hey, let's create a game using these round things...wait, we could build ball courts all over Mexico and cut off the heads of the winners, or losers. Wait, we could build these large pyramids to make it a public spectacle. Oh, I know! If we have some lawbreakers we could put them in the game, then execute them for their sins against our nation. I digress.   

Edited April 24, 2018 by Roc Koch

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Roc Koch said:

.wait, we could build ball courts all over Mexico and cut off the heads of the winners, or losers. Wait, we could build these large pyramids to make it a public spectacle. Oh, I know! If we have some lawbreakers we could put them in the game, then execute them for their sins against our nation. I digress.   

That's what we did. Then you have to figure the amount of children and adults who just had them as toys. 

[Roc Koch]

Toys. I did forget the toys...

[Piney]

2 hours ago, Roc Koch said:

Toys. I did forget the toys...

Thank you! 

[jmccr8]

5 hours ago, Roc Koch said:

There are various collections of rubberized balls of the same size found near the ancient complexes of Mexico.

**** Thanks for expanding on this, but do you have any documentation from credible sources that you have for review?

 

They have of course deteriorated over some 500 to 700 years,

*****Of course and that is why I would like to read the analysis.

 

but they still offer up the potential of the utilization for these products to act as free-throw ball-bearings to be put under a platform structure holding heavy loads to move them up and down a causeway that accessed the building sites. 

**** It is an interesting idea and to be honest I don't think it is a valid claim but I am open to reading peer approved papers from credible sources.

 

To me, it is a no-brainer since my brother and I moved stuff around our neighborhood when we were  just little kids.

It may indeed be a no brainer if one chooses it to be but I still would like to makey own choices and without you providing documentation there is nothing to really take into consideration and it falls into and opinion category.

This forum has seen many a told tale of wonder and are available here. We have gysers for building pyramids, travelling island that navigated the Atlantic and hid it's history with ancient ice just to name a couple. They supplied all kinds of credible links that refuted their argument and stalwart forged on in the face of their own denial. Please do supply documentaion.

5 hours ago, Roc Koch said:

 

How hard would it be if someone began to create these balls to later move toward using their power to move things around a building site? 

Still speculation at best. Depending on terrain it may have been harder to guide a little side slope would give it a tendency to drift. I have and still do move a lot of stuff so I have familiarity  with the subject. I have used cutting tables with fixed bearings and move the material on it but the bearings are fixed in position.

5 hours ago, Roc Koch said:

 

Who needs a wheel when you have rubberized balls and then, hey, let's create a game using these round things.wait, we could build ball courts all over Mexico and cut off the heads of the winners, or losers. Wait, we could build these large pyramids to make it a public spectacle. Oh, I know! If we have some lawbreakers we could put them in the game, then execute them for their sins against our nation. I digress.   

jmccr8