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Stephen Motson

Are we the first advanced Earthlings?

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Stephen Motson

Imagine if, many millions of years ago, dinosaurs drove cars through cities of mile-high buildings. A preposterous idea, right? Over the course of tens of millions of years, however, all of the direct evidence of a civilization -- its artifacts and remains -- gets ground to dust. How do we really know, then, that there weren't previous industrial civilizations on Earth that rose and fell long before human beings appeared?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/04/180416124327.htm

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stereologist

One way is to look for medical treatment on bones. I don't believe I've heard of any dinosaurs or other creatures being found with dental work, or plates or rods for broken bones.

Although people like to pretend that all of the evidence would be "ground to dust" that simply doesn't happen. The bones are not ground to dust. We don't find layers of trash in ocean sediments. Feathers and fur and skin are preserved, but not plastics, ceramics, electronics, or glass.

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Essan

If you'd asked the question 200,000 or even 20,000 years ago the answer would be "maybe not".   It's unlikely any species as advanced as homo sapiens for most of the time homo sapiens has existed on the planet would have left any traces.

Modern man though is a different animal.   We have oceans of plastic .....  Which will define us in the geological (sedimentary) record for eternity :(

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Gaden

 As much as some people want to believe that all traces of a past civilization would simply disappear or turn to dust, it simply is not true. Everything leaves evidence of it's existence. The skyscrapers we have, for example, will eventually crumble, but everything in them will still exist. All of the wiring, plumbing, plastic fixtures, gypsum (dry wall or sheet rock), concrete, huge amounts of iron in the form of re-bar and I beams, not to mention the footings, which are substantial. None of this stuff will go away, it will exist forever. In  10 million years, how would one explain a large deposit that was found that included copper, lead, plastic, gypsum, concrete, aluminum, iron and steel? One of the research tools that we use to investigate past civilizations is to go through old trash heaps and toilet sites. Existence is not possible without leaving waste. When you consider the fossil record, where we have evidence of dinosaurs from over 200 million years ago, the idea that we have somehow missed an advanced civilization becomes just a silly notion.

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papageorge1
1 hour ago, Stephen Motson said:

Imagine if, many millions of years ago, dinosaurs drove cars through cities of mile-high buildings. A preposterous idea, right? Over the course of tens of millions of years, however, all of the direct evidence of a civilization -- its artifacts and remains -- gets ground to dust. How do we really know, then, that there weren't previous industrial civilizations on Earth that rose and fell long before human beings appeared?

Well this makes me think of Atlantean And  Lemurian civilizations that became technologically advanced in ways we don't yet understand. The citizens were not dinosaurs but an advanced race of humans that destroyed themselves. Their evidence is lost to mainstream archeology by the oceans and time and just controversial fragments remain.

Now an advanced early reptilian civilization would be held even crazier than the Atlantis theory. But don't let that stop anyone if they feel they have legitimate reasons to consider such a theory;)

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Grignr
3 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Well this makes me think of Atlantean And  Lemurian civilizations that became technologically advanced in ways we don't yet understand. The citizens were not dinosaurs but an advanced race of humans that destroyed themselves. Their evidence is lost to mainstream archeology by the oceans and time and just controversial fragments remain.

What's the proof that they existed at all then and weren't made up by someone wanting to sell books if all evidence of them has disappeared?

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papageorge1
2 minutes ago, Grignr said:

What's the proof that they existed at all then and weren't made up by someone wanting to sell books if all evidence of them has disappeared?

Errr...where did I claim 'proof'?  I am influenced by psychic sources I have come to respect that have discussed the very ancient past of mankind. The people I am talking about hold this only as a side mention and are not selling books about it.

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Grignr
Just now, papageorge1 said:

Errr...where did I claim 'proof'?  I am influenced by psychic sources I have come to respect that have discussed the very ancient past of mankind. The people I am talking about hold this only as a side mention and are not selling books about it.

You state they existed, I assumed you would have said "might have existed" unless you had some kind of proof to back that statement up.

As respect is purely personal opinion, and my personal opinion is that I can't respect people who believe psychic sources, I'll ignore the statement.

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stereologist
2 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Errr...where did I claim 'proof'?  I am influenced by psychic sources I have come to respect that have discussed the very ancient past of mankind. The people I am talking about hold this only as a side mention and are not selling books about it.

That's a giant failure isn't it. Lemuria never existed. It was a suggested land bridge to account for lemur fossils across the Indian ocean. Seems like you are relying on fake psychics.

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papageorge1
6 minutes ago, stereologist said:

That's a giant failure isn't it. Lemuria never existed. It was a suggested land bridge to account for lemur fossils across the Indian ocean. Seems like you are relying on fake psychics.

We are not talking about your grandfather's Lemuria.

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Almighty Evan

STV "Distant Origin": the Voth

Image result for star trek voth

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MDagger
17 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Errr...where did I claim 'proof'?  I am influenced by psychic sources I have come to respect that have discussed the very ancient past of mankind. The people I am talking about hold this only as a side mention and are not selling books about it.

According to my psychic sources there were no advanced civilizations in the past....

As mentioned there is no hint of an advanced civilization ever existing; nothing found yet anyway.

MDagger

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papageorge1
8 minutes ago, MDagger said:

According to my psychic sources there were no advanced civilizations in the past....

 

carry on then.......

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Kenemet
2 hours ago, Stephen Motson said:

Imagine if, many millions of years ago, dinosaurs drove cars through cities of mile-high buildings. A preposterous idea, right? Over the course of tens of millions of years, however, all of the direct evidence of a civilization -- its artifacts and remains -- gets ground to dust. How do we really know, then, that there weren't previous industrial civilizations on Earth that rose and fell long before human beings appeared?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/04/180416124327.htm

It would be easy to see a previous advanced civilization.

Civilizations don't simply "show up out of nowhere" in spite of what the fringe writers want you to believe -- just as that car across the street did not suddenly "beam into existence" ten minutes ago.  We have cars because someone invented electrical circuitry and ways to move and store electricity, invented the gasoline engine (and various other engines), invented wheels, invented wagons, invented closed wagons, and a lot more.

It's a long process and each of those developments leaves traces (including places where the Earth was mined for ores, where landscape was modified to place a city or to put crops, etc.)  The geologic landscape would show big tracts of modified rock and soil... and then there'd be traces of the other bits of technology that led up to the advanced tech (our landfills are full of things from previous centuries and millennia.)

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MDagger
9 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

carry on then.......

Ok will do and you as well.

MDagger

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jaylemurph
1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

Well this makes me think of Atlantean And  Lemurian civilizations that became technologically advanced in ways we don't yet understand. The citizens were not dinosaurs but an advanced race of humans that destroyed themselves. Their evidence is lost to mainstream archeology by the oceans and time and just controversial fragments remain.

Now an advanced early reptilian civilization would be held even crazier than the Atlantis theory. But don't let that stop anyone if they feel they have legitimate reasons to consider such a theory;)

I don't think people with any pretense towards rationality can use "think" and "Lemuria" in the same sentence. But no doubt Papa will provide us with an aria about how he really is smarter and better than the rest of us for giving credence to outdated, exploded Victorian nonsense. 

...might as well try building vril receptacles or try finding Professor Challenger's dissertation.

--Jaylemurph 

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Gaden
1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

Well this makes me think of Atlantean And  Lemurian civilizations that became technologically advanced in ways we don't yet understand. The citizens were not dinosaurs but an advanced race of humans that destroyed themselves. Their evidence is lost to mainstream archeology by the oceans and time and just controversial fragments remain.

Now an advanced early reptilian civilization would be held even crazier than the Atlantis theory. But don't let that stop anyone if they feel they have legitimate reasons to consider such a theory;)

 Again, you can pretend things can get 'lost' all you want, but you'd still be wrong. If you think all you have to say is the ocean is hiding the evidence and you'd be safe, you'd be wrong again. The ice sheets record everything that goes on on this Earth, and evidence of any civilization would be recorded in it. We have ice cores that go back 1.5 million years and still no evidence of any ancient civs.

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papageorge1
42 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:

I don't think people with any pretense towards rationality can use "think" and "Lemuria" in the same sentence. But no doubt Papa will provide us with an aria about how he really is smarter and better than the rest of us for giving credence to outdated, exploded Victorian nonsense. 

...might as well try building vril receptacles or try finding Professor Challenger's dissertation.

--Jaylemurph 

Perhaps you’re  not interested in post-Victorian understandings and sources. I am.

But papa-attacks are not what yet another thread is to be about.

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papageorge1
Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Gaden said:

 Again, you can pretend things can get 'lost' all you want, but you'd still be wrong. If you think all you have to say is the ocean is hiding the evidence and you'd be safe, you'd be wrong again. The ice sheets record everything that goes on on this Earth, and evidence of any civilization would be recorded in it. We have ice cores that go back 1.5 million years and still no evidence of any ancient civs.

Are you just looking for large fossil fuel  burning civilizations there?

What assumptions are you making?

Edited by papageorge1

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cormac mac airt
1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

We are not talking about your grandfather's Lemuria.

You're not talking about Lemuria at all, just something you can co-opt under the name to pretend relevancy. Yes, we know.

cormac

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Gaden

 I am making no assumptions. What I am saying is cold, hard fact.You really should broaden your range of reading material. When I said everything is recorded in the ice sheets, I meant everything. What does it tell you if we can tell from the amount of pollen present in an ice core when there was an increase in wheat production? You are assuming no evidence is left if a civ doesn't use fossil fuels, again, you're wrong. What do you propose they used for heat? Solar energy? What did they use before they developed that? You probably don't know that we can tell when people used wood, and when coal became more prevalent. Your voices are wrong again. 

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stereologist
2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

We are not talking about your grandfather's Lemuria.

So you are making up a new ficticious Lemuria. Bravo.

Where is this new fake Lemuria pretending to be?

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danydandan
44 minutes ago, Gaden said:

 I am making no assumptions. What I am saying is cold, hard fact.You really should broaden your range of reading material. When I said everything is recorded in the ice sheets, I meant everything. What does it tell you if we can tell from the amount of pollen present in an ice core when there was an increase in wheat production? You are assuming no evidence is left if a civ doesn't use fossil fuels, again, you're wrong. What do you propose they used for heat? Solar energy? What did they use before they developed that? You probably don't know that we can tell when people used wood, and when coal became more prevalent. Your voices are wrong again. 

What a great pun.

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