Are we the first advanced Earthlings?

[BorizBadinov]

One interesting thought regarding pollution layers I believe is that recently I read about a plastic eating enzyme being created. I also recall an oil eating enzyme was created during one of the big spills but I don't think it was ever used due to worry over control and eco collateral damage possibility.

While I find it impossible to believe a civilization like ours could erase the traces of its existence entirely as we are way to intrusive, it does make me wonder how much damage we could reverse.

5 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

I honestly do believe that whales and dolphins and elephants are among the most intelligent out there and might have aspects of culture and possibly more than that. Our ways of measuring such things might need to broaden before we have to deal with alien life on other worlds. 

I think the biggest hurdle we have had to overcome in this regard is communication and our human paradigm that if it doesn't talk it isn't sentient. There are some interesting experiments going on to create a communication link between certain animals and humans. It's got a long road ahead but I am interested to see what we learn. 

[+Not A Rockstar]

38 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

Interesting article on this subject at EarthSky.org   http://earthsky.org/earth/earlier-human-civilization-silurian-hypothesis?utm_source=EarthSky+News&utm_campaign=0294ccb467-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_02_02&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c643945d79-0294ccb467-394012957

super paper, thank you for the share, Merc !

[papageorge1]

2 hours ago, Grignr said:

Not that I blame him, but it means @papageorge1 doesn't need to go back over what he's read and actually examine his beliefs.

I can tell you old papa has examined his beliefs for decades now. I understand how revolutionary anything beyond the view of ancient history that we were raised with seems at this point in time. Going back we found the earth was not created in seven days, is not flat, is not the center of the universe, we did not form at once from a lump of clay, and then maybe we are not the first advanced civilization might be next.

[Piney]

15 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Papageorge

Okay so your channelers are speaking to ancient modern English speakers?

jmccr8

 

It's only White channelers that can see the past.  

[papageorge1]

4 minutes ago, Grignr said:

It seems massively closed minded to me to ignore any evidence presented in favour of a personal preference to believe people and ideas which have so far been proven to be incorrect on multiple levels.

I ignore no evidence. I consider everything. My personal preferences are put aside in the search for TRUTH. I have no preference to believe in past advanced civilizations.

[Grignr]

1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

I can tell you old papa has examined his beliefs for decades now. I understand how revolutionary anything beyond the view of ancient history that we were raised with seems at this point in time. Going back we found the earth was not created in seven days, is not flat, is not the center of the universe, we did not form at once from a lump of clay, and then maybe we are not the first advanced civilization might be next.

Finally a maybe, now we just need some scientific evidence, just like we needed to overturn the rest. Pretty sure no psychics have been involved until now.

[papageorge1]

3 minutes ago, Piney said:

It's only White channelers that can see the past.  

Don't be a race disliker. 

Edited April 18, 2018 by papageorge1

[Grignr]

Just now, papageorge1 said:

I ignore no evidence. I consider everything. My personal preferences are put aside in the search for TRUTH. I have no preference to believe in past advanced civilizations.

You put, at minimum, equal weight to psychic evidence as you do to physical evidence, despite there being no reason to believe the former. That shows bias which is very much undeserved.

[cormac mac airt]

11 hours ago, fred_mc said:

Interesting. I wonder how that fits the observation that the genetical diversity among humans is very small, much smaller than among different groups of chimpanzees. Wouldn't that point to a human bottleneck having occurred?

No, as seen in the first paper I linked to low genetic diversity can be linked to low population levels in prehistoric times. The population of anatomically modern humans (i.e. us) circa 130 kya BP are estimated at between 120,000–325,000 people living in Sub-Saharan Africa. This population doesn't appear to have changed significantly for most of our existance. 

cormac

[papageorge1]

3 minutes ago, Grignr said:

Finally a maybe, now we just need some scientific evidence, just like we needed to overturn the rest. Pretty sure no psychics have been involved until now.

The physical evidence is mostly lost to the oceans and time. However some (controversial) things are out there, but not understood per psychic sources I respect. Lee Carrol for one, gets into some of that.

My belief is based on the quantity, quality and consistency of the psychically derived material. If you do not believe in psychic insight, then stick to the physical only and be very dubious of advanced past civilizations. 

I have come to respect what I believe to be the higher quality psychic sources.

[+Not A Rockstar]

well if we are going with Lee and Kryon, he says Lemuria was the Hawaiian islands, Here is a topo of the ocean around there. I have no idea how to color it in or lower the sea level to compensate to determine what may have been the shoreline of the original.

https://walrus.wr.usgs.gov/pacmaps/hw_index.html

he has claimed some of their ships remain out there and in fact have been found and kept by private citizens. Literal ships as in water going, not ET. 

[Grignr]

1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

The physical evidence is mostly lost to the oceans and time. However some (controversial) things are out there, but not understood per psychic sources I respect. Lee Carrol for one, gets into some of that.

My belief is based on the quantity, quality and consistency of the psychically derived material. If you do not believe in psychic insight, then stick to the physical only and be very dubious of advanced past civilizations. 

I have come to respect what I believe to be the higher quality psychic sources.

My Brother-in-law turns out a new post-apocalyptic book every couple of months and they are very well reviewed, top sellers on Amazon UK and US, both quality, quantity and consistency.

I can guarantee you he gets his material in exactly the same way as these psychics you hold to such high esteem, in fact I suspect he does more research, travelling out to the places he sets his stories in. And yet, still no apocalypse.

[+Not A Rockstar]

I like Kryon as well,  but no matter what he says about the future, it IS the future and we deal in the now and what is known now. Linear reality. 

Linearly speaking, I am not sure even in Native Lore that there is talk about past civilization there before the Native Hawaiians. That is something I do not know how to check on. 

[papageorge1]

1 minute ago, Grignr said:

My Brother-in-law turns out a new post-apocalyptic book every couple of months and they are very well reviewed, top sellers on Amazon UK and US, both quality, quantity and consistency.

I can guarantee you he gets his material in exactly the same way as these psychics you hold to such high esteem, in fact I suspect he does more research, travelling out to the places he sets his stories in. And yet, still no apocalypse.

He is talking of the future, which is a different subject. I have found the better sources I respect are not seeing any apocalypse.

[Grignr]

Just now, papageorge1 said:

He is talking of the future, which is a different subject. I have found the better sources I respect are not seeing any apocalypse.

He's a fiction author, its not a different subject.

[+Not A Rockstar]

2 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

He is talking of the future, which is a different subject. I have found the better sources I respect are not seeing any apocalypse.

I give you this. I do not believe in an apocalypse anymore, I do not believe it is inevitable.

[+Not A Rockstar]

7 minutes ago, Grignr said:

My Brother-in-law turns out a new post-apocalyptic book every couple of months and they are very well reviewed, top sellers on Amazon UK and US, both quality, quantity and consistency.

I can guarantee you he gets his material in exactly the same way as these psychics you hold to such high esteem, in fact I suspect he does more research, travelling out to the places he sets his stories in. And yet, still no apocalypse.

I feel for you Grignr. I find this theme to be distressing and ad nauseum more than almost any other, but there is money in it  

[Grignr]

1 minute ago, Not A Rockstar said:

I feel for you Grignr. I find this theme to be distressing and ad nauseum more than almost any other, but there is money in it  

Oh, no, as I say its fiction, character based stories, I can guarantee you that the backgrounds he creates for those stories are better researched and more true to life than the psychics mentioned.

[danydandan]

3 hours ago, BorizBadinov said:

One interesting thought regarding pollution layers I believe is that recently I read about a plastic eating enzyme being created. I also recall an oil eating enzyme was created during one of the big spills but I don't think it was ever used due to worry over control and eco collateral damage possibility.

While I find it impossible to believe a civilization like ours could erase the traces of its existence entirely as we are way to intrusive, it does make me wonder how much damage we could reverse.

I think the biggest hurdle we have had to overcome in this regard is communication and our human paradigm that if it doesn't talk it isn't sentient. There are some interesting experiments going on to create a communication link between certain animals and humans. It's got a long road ahead but I am interested to see what we learn. 

There was an experiment carried out on number of gorilla's, I don't have a link so don't take my word as gospel, I read once in The National Geographic magazine. A number of gorilla's were given access to paint and were allowed to create art. These Gorilla's also learned sign language. One of the scientific team noticed that two gorilla's tended to communicate through sigh language rather regarding their art. So it suggested that they had no way to communicate efficiently other than sign language. Maybe we have to teach them an efficient way to communicate? I don't know. But it at least has shown gorilla mother's can pass sign language to their young, I'm not sure if it's applicable to the wild though.

I think gorilla's conversing through sign language about, art, death and lies seems sentient to me. I have often wondered if someone taught the Gorilla's about God would they believe?

What I find interesting about the original topic is how it can translate to searching for civilizations on distant planets.

Edited April 18, 2018 by danydandan

[Gaden]

2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I can tell you old papa has examined his beliefs for decades now. I understand how revolutionary anything beyond the view of ancient history that we were raised with seems at this point in time. Going back we found the earth was not created in seven days, is not flat, is not the center of the universe, we did not form at once from a lump of clay, and then maybe we are not the first advanced civilization might be next.

 It would seem you are willing to accept science's explanations on at least some subjects.

[stereologist]

2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I ignore no evidence. I consider everything. My personal preferences are put aside in the search for TRUTH. I have no preference to believe in past advanced civilizations.

That is simply false. Your posts show that you almost always reject evidence in favor of some psychic's inane ramblings.

[stereologist]

2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

The physical evidence is mostly lost to the oceans and time. However some (controversial) things are out there, but not understood per psychic sources I respect. Lee Carrol for one, gets into some of that.

My belief is based on the quantity, quality and consistency of the psychically derived material. If you do not believe in psychic insight, then stick to the physical only and be very dubious of advanced past civilizations. 

I have come to respect what I believe to be the higher quality psychic sources.

There is no consistency to the blather from uneducated psychics. They can't figure out that Lemuria was proposed to be in the Indian Ocean. They place it all over the Pacific. Quality? Does not exist. Quantity? There is a heap of manure produced all of the time from psychics. 

The old oxymoron: "higher quality psychic sources"

[cormac mac airt]

9 minutes ago, stereologist said:

There is no consistency to the blather from uneducated psychics. They can't figure out that Lemuria was proposed to be in the Indian Ocean. They place it all over the Pacific. Quality? Does not exist. Quantity? There is a heap of manure produced all of the time from psychics. 

The old oxymoron: "higher quality psychic sources"

I’d put that in the same category as high quality one-ply toilet paper, and for the same reason. 

cormac

[papageorge1]

25 minutes ago, Gaden said:

 It would seem you are willing to accept science's explanations on at least some subjects.

I am actually pro-science but believe science’s reach to be limited at this time. I also learn from spiritual wisdom traditions that I respect.

[Gaden]

2 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I am actually pro-science but believe science’s reach to be limited at this time. I also learn from spiritual wisdom traditions that I respect.

 I see, so, when it doesn't interfere with your claims?