bison Posted April 18, 2018 #1 Share Posted April 18, 2018 The two Koreas will announce the formal end to the Korean war next week, a source within the government, in the South, has claimed. This will apparently occur at the planned summit meeting between the two nations, next week. The Korean war did not properly end in 1953. A truce was declared, but hostilities have occurred sporadically since then. It is proposed that the armed border between North and South be dismantled. Many reputable news sources are beginning to cover this story, now. As improbable as it may have seemed even very recently, it appears that this reconciliation could occur. One wishes both nations every success in their efforts at peacemaking. One of many articles on this matter is linked, below: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/17/north-and-south-korea-reportedly-set-to-announce-official-end-to-war.html 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted April 18, 2018 #2 Share Posted April 18, 2018 35 minutes ago, bison said: It is proposed that the armed border between North and South be dismantled. That would be a pretty gullible move on the South's part. When has NK ever been trustworthy? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bison Posted April 18, 2018 Author #3 Share Posted April 18, 2018 (edited) It's apparently merely a proposal they intend to discuss. I imagine this disarmament would be done very gradually, in a long series of trust-building steps. The process could be stopped or reversed, if either side became dissatisfied with the behavior of the other. Each side has ample reason to mistrust the other. They've officially been at war for well over 60 years. Considering this, I find it remarkable that they have been able to come this close to ending their war, when it so recently seemed that the Korean situation was becoming more tense, and so, less amenable to solution. Edited April 18, 2018 by bison improved paragraph structure 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted April 19, 2018 #4 Share Posted April 19, 2018 6 hours ago, bison said: The two Koreas will announce the formal end to the Korean war next week, a source within the government, in the South, has claimed. This will apparently occur at the planned summit meeting between the two nations, next week. The Korean war did not properly end in 1953. A truce was declared, but hostilities have occurred sporadically since then. It is proposed that the armed border between North and South be dismantled. Many reputable news sources are beginning to cover this story, now. As improbable as it may have seemed even very recently, it appears that this reconciliation could occur. One wishes both nations every success in their efforts at peacemaking. One of many articles on this matter is linked, below: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/17/north-and-south-korea-reportedly-set-to-announce-official-end-to-war.html Wow...that would be very cool if it turns out to happen. I'm with Oversword on the whole being wary of dismantling the border and all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bison Posted April 19, 2018 Author #5 Share Posted April 19, 2018 North Korea has reportedly offered to drop its demand that the United States remove its troops from South Korea. They still indicate a desire to see all nuclear weapons removed from the Korean peninsula, in exchange for formal assurances of its own security. This seems quite a reasonable stance for them to take. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bison Posted April 21, 2018 Author #6 Share Posted April 21, 2018 North Korea had dropped it's previous strenuous objections to 'war games' by South Korean and United States forces. It has now officially suspended its long range rocket and nuclear weapons tests. Some have suggested that these concessions are a sort of pre-summit maneuvering, to put themselves in a good light, and induce the United States to negotiate with them. That may very well be the case. All nations seek advantages for themselves, when dealing with other nations. The United States is no exception to this. As long as continued compliance with any agreements reached can be monitored and verified, I see no reason why North Korea can not be viewed as valid negotiating partner. I think that we should assume that North Korea is ready to change for the better, unless we see evidence to the contrary. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bison Posted April 23, 2018 Author #7 Share Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) There has been some discussion about the difference between the statement made by Mr. Trump: that North Korea has agreed to get rid of its nuclear weapons, and the statement by one or more South Koran officials: that the North has said it is committed to denuclearization. The difference seems rather slight to me, at this stage of diplomacy. There is, as yet, no formal agreement to any changes in the status quo. Still, the fact that North Korea is willing to confide to the South that it seriously desires to to rid the Korean peninsula of nuclear weapons is a welcome and significant change. I can't help but feel that the pace of apparent change in the attitudes of North Korea has been so rapid as to cause a degree of confusion. Past statements are still remembered and compared to more recent ones, and the differences noted. A sort of 'psychic inertia' seems to makes some emphasize the older statements over the newer ones. Can North Korea be taken at its (latest) word? That remains to be seen, of course. We must see what, if anything. comes of the summit meeting between the two Koreas, on Friday April 27, just four days away. If a formal agreement to end the 67 year old Korean war is announced, it seems that a corner has really been turned in Korean affairs. Edited April 23, 2018 by bison corrected misspelling, punctuation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted April 24, 2018 #8 Share Posted April 24, 2018 On 19/04/2018 at 1:00 PM, ChaosRose said: Wow...that would be very cool if it turns out to happen. I'm with Oversword on the whole being wary of dismantling the border and all. I know that you don’t like Trump, ChaosRose, and I don’t like him much either but Trump has been very effective into making NK back down at least for now. Generally I also agree that once Trump has left office it will be business as usual for NK. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted April 24, 2018 #9 Share Posted April 24, 2018 It's a pretty standard tactic of North Korea. Saber rattle, get attention, back down. If they stay true to form they'll make demands the South would never agree to and go back to normal, only to again saber rattle when they want something or to test the waters again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted April 24, 2018 #10 Share Posted April 24, 2018 On 4/21/2018 at 1:37 PM, bison said: North Korea had dropped it's previous strenuous objections to 'war games' by South Korean and United States forces. It has now officially suspended its long range rocket and nuclear weapons tests. Some have suggested that these concessions are a sort of pre-summit maneuvering, to put themselves in a good light, and induce the United States to negotiate with them. That may very well be the case. All nations seek advantages for themselves, when dealing with other nations. The United States is no exception to this. As long as continued compliance with any agreements reached can be monitored and verified, I see no reason why North Korea can not be viewed as valid negotiating partner. I think that we should assume that North Korea is ready to change for the better, unless we see evidence to the contrary. So long as real mechanisms are in place to "trust but verify", I'd think it's the best news we've heard in a decade and more. The alternative is so potentially bloody that I shudder to imagine it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted April 24, 2018 #11 Share Posted April 24, 2018 2 hours ago, ShadowSot said: It's a pretty standard tactic of North Korea. Saber rattle, get attention, back down. If they stay true to form they'll make demands the South would never agree to and go back to normal, only to again saber rattle when they want something or to test the waters again. Probably. Who knows, though? Xi may have spoken to KJ fat boy and told him where the limits are. This is about what China wants, anyway. I'll never think of that punk as being the real leader of that thugocracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted April 24, 2018 #12 Share Posted April 24, 2018 8 minutes ago, and then said: Probably. Who knows, though? Xi may have spoken to KJ fat boy and told him where the limits are. This is about what China wants, anyway. I'll never think of that punk as being the real leader of that thugocracy. Really depends. He could, but why go beyond asking him to tone it down a notch when NK provides a useful distraction? The Kims have always been high on their own stash, but are also very aware that they need to provoke an attack to get China involved. But also seem aware that China has no desire to fulfill that obligation. So instead they run up to the line and dance back. It really depends on how long he can maintain his lifestyle despite the poor condition of the country at large. Once that starts to decline he probably will gracefully bow out. Or decide screw it and go all in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud the mackem Posted April 24, 2018 #13 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Kim the poison dwarf is obviously up to some trickery in order to get what he wants, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bison Posted April 24, 2018 Author #14 Share Posted April 24, 2018 (edited) Once a closed society starts to make modest reforms, the process can get out of control, and create much larger changes than intended. Glasnost and Perestroika were conceived as quite modest reforms, intended to make the old system work more efficiently. They ended with the collapse the the Eastern Bloc and the Soviet Union. If Mr. Kim thinks to benefit only his own regime, at the expense of South Korea and it's allies, he may find that his plans backfire on him. Superficial and supposedly temporary gestures may start an unstoppable current of change. Reforms in North Korea have, in the past, been started and then stopped again. What may be different this time is the proposed scope of the changes. Consider the changes already in the air: ending their objections to American troops and joint South Korean/American 'war games'; the proposed dismantling the DMZ; an expressed interest in ending the long Korean war; the freezing of long range missile and nuclear weapons tests; and the proposal for the denuclearization of the entire Korean peninsula. These are all occurring at once. They may be the beginning of a process too large to be controlled. It could be like a sizable hole in a dam. The water pours out too fast to plug the hole. It erodes a bigger and bigger hole, until the dam collapses. Edited April 24, 2018 by bison stylistic improvement, corrected misspellings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portia.angelique.lumiere99 Posted April 24, 2018 #15 Share Posted April 24, 2018 I REALLY HOPE SO! IT'S TOO DAMNED BAD THAT A COUNTRY GOTTEN SPLIT APART BY A WHOLE BUNCH OF CHILDISH CRAP.....OVER 50 YEARS AGO...."UNITED WE STAND....DIVIDED WE FALL"....IS A VERY TRUE OLD SAYING,INDEED! BUT.....THERE'S ANOTHER OLD SAYING,AS QUOTED BY THE LATE SLAIN LEADER: "DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING;'WE WILL ALL EITHER PROSPER TOGETHER AS BROTHERS ( AND SISTERS )....OR EITHER DESTROY EACH OTHER,SEPARATELY AND PERISH AS FOOLS'".........SO ABSOLUTELY HOPE TRUE,INDEED! AND LAST BUT,NOT LEAST....I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW WE'RE GOING TO LIVE IN A STAR TREK LIKE UTOPIA.....WHEN WE SURE IN HELL CANNOT GET ALONG OTHER...."UPON THIS GREAT BLUE PLANET"...EVEN NOW! HAS ANYBODY EVER HEARD OF THE TRUE LEGEND OF WHAT REALLY HAPPEN TO THE PLANET MARS....THAT IT,TOO...WAS AN EARTH LIKE PLANET...UNTIL THE WARLORDS HAD DESTROYED THEMSELVES WITH NUCLEAR BOMBS.....AND SOME OF HUMANITY OF THIS PLANET EARTH...WERE ACTUALLY THEIR ANCIENT ANCESTORS? HAVE WE NOT LEARN FROM OUR PAST ANCIENT MISTAKES?! I HOPE THE HELL SO! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiloh Posted April 27, 2018 #16 Share Posted April 27, 2018 They should end the war. Decades of mistrust replaced with prosperity. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bison Posted April 27, 2018 Author #17 Share Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) The leaders of North and South Korea met today. They signed an agreement to end the Korean war, remove all nuclear weapons for the Korean peninsula, and cease all hostile words and actions directed at each other. They also agreed to meet again next month to continue their peacemaking efforts. It's assumed that China and the United States will need to be involved in any formal treaty to end the Korean war, as they, too, were participants in it. The United States signed the 1953 armistice agreement on South Korea's behalf, as Syngman Rhee, then leader of South Korea, declined to do so. Edited April 27, 2018 by bison corrected misspelling 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted April 28, 2018 #18 Share Posted April 28, 2018 very good news.... congratulations to all those involved in successfully making moves towards Peace...... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted April 28, 2018 #19 Share Posted April 28, 2018 (edited) On 4/24/2018 at 11:56 PM, portia.angelique.lumiere99 said: THERE'S ANOTHER OLD SAYING,AS QUOTED BY THE LATE SLAIN LEADER: "DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING;'WE WILL ALL EITHER PROSPER TOGETHER AS BROTHERS ( AND SISTERS )....OR EITHER DESTROY EACH OTHER,SEPARATELY AND PERISH AS FOOLS'"........ Amen to that............... edit to add ......... Edited April 28, 2018 by bee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAyMO Posted April 28, 2018 #20 Share Posted April 28, 2018 On 4/24/2018 at 4:59 AM, Captain Risky said: I know that you don’t like Trump, ChaosRose, and I don’t like him much either but Trump has been very effective into making NK back down at least for now. Generally I also agree that once Trump has left office it will be business as usual for NK. Two things have helped - 1 NKs goal was always to get talks with West in which I suspect they may have over achieved, 2 their Nuclear facility has been accidentally destroyed. I am happy to see the progress - but a tad worried that the summit with Trump will actually put things into reverse. Trmp's advisors should be concentrating on making sure he doesn't derail the process. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiloh Posted April 28, 2018 #21 Share Posted April 28, 2018 4 hours ago, RAyMO said: Two things have helped - 1 NKs goal was always to get talks with West in which I suspect they may have over achieved, 2 their Nuclear facility has been accidentally destroyed. I am happy to see the progress - but a tad worried that the summit with Trump will actually put things into reverse. Trmp's advisors should be concentrating on making sure he doesn't derail the process. THat's my thoughts exactly. They are making progress on disarmament and peace etc... He should support that by talking of trade etc, not derailing the progress made so far. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted April 28, 2018 #22 Share Posted April 28, 2018 11 hours ago, RAyMO said: Two things have helped - 1 NKs goal was always to get talks with West in which I suspect they may have over achieved, 2 their Nuclear facility has been accidentally destroyed. I am happy to see the progress - but a tad worried that the summit with Trump will actually put things into reverse. Trmp's advisors should be concentrating on making sure he doesn't derail the process. nor sure i agree that NK developed a nuclear program to blackmail the west into trade talks (as you suggest). and i had no idea that the NK nuclear facility has melted down. embarrassing for rocket man and well timed if you ask me. Trump surely can't ruin these talks as the NK have little bargaining power left. or can he. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bison Posted April 28, 2018 Author #23 Share Posted April 28, 2018 The nuclear facility that was damaged was reportedly a mountain, beneath which they had been testing their atomic and nuclear bombs. The most recent explosion apparently damaged the mountain, making it unstable. It may break apart and release radiation. The reason that North Korea acquired nuclear weapons is generally assumed to be self-protection. Now that they have them, they are in a position to bargain from a position of strength. Negotiating a permanently nuclear-free Korean peninsula, an end to the Korean war, and a security agreement precluding attacks on their nation, would all be in North Korea's interest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odas Posted April 30, 2018 #24 Share Posted April 30, 2018 On 23/04/2018 at 11:59 PM, Captain Risky said: I know that you don’t like Trump, ChaosRose, and I don’t like him much either but Trump has been very effective into making NK back down at least for now. Generally I also agree that once Trump has left office it will be business as usual for NK. Well, if it works out and there is peace I will give credit to Trump. In a weird way it could work out for all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted May 1, 2018 #25 Share Posted May 1, 2018 On 4/28/2018 at 4:32 PM, Captain Risky said: nor sure i agree that NK developed a nuclear program to blackmail the west into trade talks (as you suggest). and i had no idea that the NK nuclear facility has melted down. embarrassing for rocket man and well timed if you ask me. Trump surely can't ruin these talks as the NK have little bargaining power left. or can he. The facility didn't melt down, the mountain that shielded the multiple test explosions has become unstable and dangerous. As to Trump causing a problem, it was his moves that led to the discussions and he's made it clear that he'll walk away if he thinks the Kim regime is just playing the same old game again. If he walks away, he's at fault. If he makes an agreement that is considered too generous or is not sufficiently verifiable, he's at fault... see how that works? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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