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London Mayor Wants More Knife Control


OverSword

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2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

If they start stabbing each other with bumbershoots, will they be banned, too?

Hammerclaw deserves some sort of civic recognition for re-introducing the word "bumbershoots" into common usage. (well, I'M certainly intending to use it in future). 

Nothing TOO fancy... perhaps a Lordship of some obscure county in Wales ? Or governership of Tasmania ? 

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1 minute ago, RoofGardener said:

Hammerclaw deserves some sort of civic recognition for re-introducing the word "bumbershoots" into common usage. (well, I'M certainly intending to use it in future). 

Nothing TOO fancy... perhaps a Lordship of some obscure county in Wales ? Or governership of Tasmania ? 

Wales and Tasmania? Come on man we like Hammerclaw.

 

Disclaimer: This is said firmly tounge in cheek

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1 minute ago, Kismit said:

Wales and Tasmania? Come on man we like Hammerclaw.

....

So what ? I like Bumbershoots, but I'm not going to make one the Duke of Cornwall ! Anyway, Tasmania is a lovely place !

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9 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Hammerclaw deserves some sort of civic recognition for re-introducing the word "bumbershoots" into common usage. (well, I'M certainly intending to use it in future). 

Nothing TOO fancy... perhaps a Lordship of some obscure county in Wales ? Or governership of Tasmania ? 

Hey. what can I say? I'm an old Avengers fan. (The British Avengers.)

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1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

Hey. what can I say? I'm an old Avengers fan. (The British Avengers.)

Oh my this made me nostalgic

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13 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Get away. It has nothing to do with race or 'cultural racism' and everything to do with gang mentality and the territorial dick swinging that goes with it, along with poverty and other factors. 

Glasgow has a much higher murder rate and it's all white on white. Same with other areas in the UK.

People just love to blame things on race. 

To a certain extent you are also right.. territorial dick and that, but it is ALSO a hatred between the races. That is a fact.

We had a major problem in south london between the west indian gangs against the african gangs, now its grown in pockets around the country to muslim gangs against the black gangs against the Polish gangs against the English gangs against the .turkish gangs ...are you seeing where i am coming from now.

THERE IS NOTHING MORE FRUSTRATING WHEN PEOPLE BLAME THIS ON POVERTY!!! FFS...these gangs are not poor. These gangs do not have a clue what real poverty is about and neither do those who blame this on it. Just because someone is poor does not mean they will go out armed ....  in their Nike trainers and gold chains!!!

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5 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

THERE IS NOTHING MORE FRUSTRATING WHEN PEOPLE BLAME THIS ON POVERTY!!! FFS...these gangs are not poor. These gangs do not have a clue what real poverty is about and neither do those who blame this on it. Just because someone is poor does not mean they will go out armed ....  in their Nike trainers and gold chains!!!

Of course it is about poverty. It is common knowledge that poverty = crime. This is so well known and widely accepted that I've never actually seen someone try to deny it before. Well, except with American White Nationalists who believe black people commit crimes simply because they're black.

Now, that's no to say that every single criminal will be poor, or will even have been raised in poverty, but this is the case for the vast majority. Just because a gang member has money now, doesn't mean he was born into it. And it also doesn't mean that all poor people are criminals. It just means that there is a demonstrable causative correlation between poverty and crime. This is a fact of humanity.

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1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Of course it is about poverty. It is common knowledge that poverty = crime. This is so well known and widely accepted that I've never actually seen someone try to deny it before. Well, except with American White Nationalists who believe black people commit crimes simply because they're black.

Now, that's no to say that every single criminal will be poor, or will even have been raised in poverty, but this is the case for the vast majority. Just because a gang member has money now, doesn't mean he was born into it. And it also doesn't mean that all poor people are criminals. It just means that there is a demonstrable causative correlation between poverty and crime. This is a fact of humanity.

In England it is not poverty. 

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6 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

In England it is not poverty. 

The correlation is universal and we'll documented but you're welcome to believe whatever you want.

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44 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

The correlation is universal and we'll documented but you're welcome to believe whatever you want.

Poverty is no excuse for low life scum bag gangs to go round carrying weapons and stabbing each other. If you want to believe  they are doing that because you think they are poor, then, them fine believe that.

I grew in an area were there were gangs and trust me they were not poor, they grew up in the same areas, on the same streets and went to the same schools as all the other children, and although not all the kids were perfect, we did not all go round carrying knives and stabbing others.

You may want to read this, taken from people involved

Quote

These are kids who are going to college or university and living ordinary lives, but they’re still carrying knives.

Most people I know don’t like university. Uni is so boring, there’s such a lack of culture. Where I live is so much more interesting. It’s like Stockholm syndrome, we all want to come back. We know it’s dangerous but everyone still does it. People want to do bad stuff, they’re tempted by the thrill.

I believe that knife crime is on the rise because it’s easy to get involved in the cycle but difficult then to get out. 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jan/06/living-with-knife-both-my-sons-have-been-stabbed

Many of the knife carriers are not from poor families, as said above, it is easy to get involved in the cycle when you live in relatively small areas in inner city towns. This is where the 'race' thing comes into it. They do NOT start out as rascist, but the gangs are normally of a particular race, eg: the young muslim boy is more likely to be drawn into and towards a muslim gang than he would a white or non muslim black gang, a young black boy is not likely to join a Polish or turkish gang. This is where the race thing comes into it....in areas where a particular gang is dominant, eg: Btixton or areas in Luton, then they are likely to be of a particilar race and if the white drug dealers tries to move in....you have a drug war on your hand and it will also be the two different races against each other.....sorry, no poverty with these gangs. 

Yes, some young kid from a poor background in an inner city area is likely to be easy prey for the gangs to recruit ( and they usually recruit their own race)  but there is a difference in our time in our country between 'poor' and actual poverty.  Many of these people claiming to be poor still have tv's, phones, a roof over their heads ( many paid for by the tax payer)  and a car,  people experiencing poverty do not have any of these.

 

 

Edited by freetoroam
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Ok as it has been pointed out that poverty is the reason..lets look at the comparison as to what some in the UK class as poverty as to what poverty actually means in other parts of the world.

UK

fsdffewrfagreggregrewggtewwygsgrdshrhgrh

AFRICA

18-02-2015-Poverty-Reduction-Content.jpg

 

 

Edited by freetoroam
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49 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

Ok as it has been pointed out that poverty is the reason..lets look at the comparison as to what some in the UK class as poverty as to what poverty actually means in other parts of the world.

UK

fsdffewrfagreggregrewggtewwygsgrdshrhgrh

AFRICA

18-02-2015-Poverty-Reduction-Content.jpg

 

 

Poverty is relative. Especially relative poverty.

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8 hours ago, Torchwood said:

hard to say...whats a bumbershoot?

Umbrella

 

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1 hour ago, freetoroam said:

Many of these people claiming to be poor still have tv's, phones, a roof over their heads ( many paid for by the tax payer)  and a car,  people experiencing poverty do not have any of these.

Exactly.

Designer clothes, the latest iPhones, PS4s, etc. do not a poor person make :rolleyes:

Social deprivation is undoubtedly a factor in some areas, but there's a whole lot more to it, such as modern life and sense of entitlement, taking the quick route to prosperity, rather than through hard work, etc.

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2 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

The correlation is universal and we'll documented but you're welcome to believe whatever you want.

Easy to determine: how many of the stabbing cases also resulted in robbery?

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10 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

Easy to determine: how many of the stabbing cases also resulted in robbery?

That's really too simplistic. 

When discussing poverty and crime you need to take into account things like stress, diet, education , parentage , desperation from lack of hope etc.

Being poor literally changes the way your brain works.  

Being Poor Affects Kids' Brains, Study Finds 

Quote

Specifically, among children from the lowest-income families, small differences in income were associated with relatively large differences in surface area in a number of regions of the brain associated with skills important for academic success,” said Dr. Kimberly Noble, an assistant professor of pediatrics and director of the Neurocognition, Early Experience and Development Lab at Columbia University Medical Center, who helped lead the study published in the journal Nature Neuroscience.

So now you're talking about things like information processing and decision making being altered due to economic conditions. 

Edited by Farmer77
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7 hours ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

It's a conspiracy by the Government to Take Away Our Knives, so that when the Government comes for us we won't be able to defend ourselves against their ruthless stormtroopers. 

Or it's a conspiracy to make you helpless and to make you feel it's wrong to defend yourself.  Don't you already have laws that state you can't use more force to defend yourself than is being used against you in the first place?  Since I can kill you with one punch you should be allowed to take your defense to extremes but I dare you to use that as a defense in court.

Edited by OverSword
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4 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

That's really too simplistic. 

When discussing poverty and crime you need to take into account things like diet, education , parentage , desperation from lack of hope etc.

Being poor literally changes the way your brain works.  

Being Poor Affects Kids' Brains, Study Finds 

So now you're talking about things like information processing and decision making being altered due to economic conditions. 

Fair enough...but surely robbery/assault stats could help paint a clearer picture?

Growing up in a violent environment will definitely cause the individual to be more aggressive. You don't join a gang because you want to change the world, you join a gang to help protect yourself from other violent gangs.

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5 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Or it's a conspiracy to make you helpless and to make you feel it's wrong to defend yourself.  Don't you already have laws that state you can't use more force to defend yourself than is being used against you in the first place?  

Reminds me of all the bizarre cases where the courts ruled in favor of the intruder that was hurt attempting a break and enter. Do property rights or "castle laws" even exist over there?

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5 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

Fair enough...but surely robbery/assault stats could help paint a clearer picture?

Growing up in a violent environment will definitely cause the individual to be more aggressive. You don't join a gang because you want to change the world, you join a gang to help protect yourself from other violent gangs.

Self protection plays a part but it's really about making easy money, just like the mafia.

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If having the basic necessities of life in a modern urban environment were sufficient reason not to commit criminal acts, there would hardly be any. Crimes, the world over, are committed by the socially, economically and morally disadvantaged in addition to those of sheer malice and greed.

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Every guy I know or have known growing up, Dad, cousins, uncles, brother and now my husband and sons carry utility knives. You never know when you are going to need it.

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19 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

If having the basic necessities of life in a modern urban environment were sufficient reason not to commit criminal acts, there would hardly be any. Crimes, the world over, are committed by the socially, economically and morally disadvantaged in addition to those of sheer malice and greed.

...to a point. Bad people will always exist regardless of economic status. I think it's part poverty and part personal responsibility. There are plenty of examples of people who rose up from poverty and became successful without killing their way to the top.

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1 hour ago, Dark_Grey said:

Easy to determine: how many of the stabbing cases also resulted in robbery?

We talking handbags or drugs? 

Many of those stabbed were teenagers.. i can not see what they could be carrying of such value that a poor poverty stricken youth would want to rob off them. 

A few reasons why they could be attacked

1;  because they belonged in a rival gang

2: their race

3 : they were dealing drugs on someone elses patch

4 : they grassed someone up

5 : they are a witness for an upcoming court case

Now i understand some of the stabbers may not have grown up with rich parents, not many of us growing up in inner city London did, but where does poverty come into stabbing another 'poor' kid from your neighbourhood or nearby borough? 

Edited by freetoroam
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