Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Ellapennella

Mind-Body- debate

407 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

MauriOra
5 hours ago, StarMountainKid said:

 

I think it's important to realize the difference between playing and waking up.

Atamarie Star Mountain Kid ..

What a cool name too,BTW .. Awesomeness .!!

Ok, 

You say its important to "Realize" the "Difference" ..

What are you meant to "Realize" and What are the "Differences "?

Yes, Children play, and they know.. .. It is us that limits that realisation and the Differences within them .. Children are most wise because they are still connected to The Source .. 

When they " snap out of it " like you say, was that because of Parents input or them ..?

I'm just pondering .. You have a lot of great info.. As does our Learned Friend Psi Seeker ..

Thankyou ..xx

Mo ..xx

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Will Due
23 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Its a pain in the neck isn't it :lol:

They are still very much personal experiences and as such only apply to oneself. They are not evidences but personal interpretations based on someone's idea of what certain feelings mean, its not evidence based to the individual even, its still in interpretation. 

Being human, what in the realities of life isn't interpreted? Even science has to be interpreted. This is what everyone does with evidence, whether it be subjective or objective evidence. This is done through our personal experience right? 

The thing with a scientific fact is it applies to everyone in the same way. Water is two molecules of hydrogen and one of oxygen, and that remains as such regardless of beliefs or interpretations of water. 

True. And this also applies to those personal experiences that are evidences of being in contact with something paradoxically much more than water. The water of life - experience with divinity - personal religion.

I don't think it's simply being interested, it's coercion. Like a JW child who will die without qualm because that child's parents have brainwashed them into thinking refusing a blood transfusion to preserve a claim of divine relationship and acceptance I to the afterlife. There's not much more daunting than losing a child or accepting death, they are as hard as yards come, but all for a misinterpretation. I just don't see how a personal experience is making the lives of people in these situstions better. Islamic radicals devote themselves heavily to a greater calling by culture, just like any religious person but spread death and hatered through their religious epiphanies. 

What you've pointed to is valid. Organized institutional religion has lost its way. It doesn't do anymore what it used to. Which was to provide security in society.

Today insitutional religion is faced with becoming completely irrelevant as a factor in life. This is especially true for our youth. They will not become stirred by the trumpet blasts from the Middle Ages.

But we're in a transitional era. The relevancy of religion is shifting away from insitutional religion and towards personal religion, which must be personally interpreted, and this development will encourage many, especially our youth as it becomes more ubiquitous in society.

This will take time. Evolution is slow and few things evolve slower than religion.

Once more, personal religion (true religion) is simply the experience of being in direct contact with divinity and this is not a choice, eventhough co-operating (faithing) with the spirit presence within is.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MauriOra
5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Exactly, discovery is just discovery, what people do with it is what matters,. 

Atamarie Sir ..

Yes .. It matters ..Why Even Build Them Then .?? .. Weapons have  caused Massive Destruction WorldWide.. Where are the Wise Minds in that Industry,.. To Say Stop It Now ..  Are there any .? Do you know Psyche .?

5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Yes truth. We don't just have the fossil record, it's backed by DNA evidence and modern examples of evolution in progress. 

We are covered mostly by Water .. What discoveries are there .. The Deserts .. What is under all that sand ..We are only Limited by what we have access to .. So we or the Learned Minds in the Business, Gather what they have found, studied, and said .. Yip, this is Facts .. Is it Truth though ..

5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

The spiritual one that fears science. 

I sincerely feel, this is Reversed .. It is Science that is Fearful of Spiritual Development .. Because, if Humanity claimed their rightful inheritance ..Mind Power.. Science in its Present Form, would not hold the All Knowing Power, that they hold in their hands right now .. In spirituality, Unity, Respect, Growth ,Personal Development, Understanding, Truths .. Balance, Equilibrium .. Service to the Greater Good .. Not for PROFIT ..!!!

5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

A human is an ape as much as that offends your delicate senses. 

Humans (taxonomically Homo sapiens) are the only extant members of the subtribeHominina. The Hominina are sister of the Chimpanzees with which they form the Hominini belonging to the family of great apes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

I am not Ignorant .. I am realistic .. This Data is ...  "Smack Talk" ..

5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

That's just ridiculous though. Evolution theory is in as much doubt as the theory that says the earth revolves around the sun. The evidence is overwhelming, that you can not understand it does not invalidate it. 

Its not that I dont "Understand the info"  I Do .. It just sounds like Smack Talk to me .. We are not Apes .. Really who cares .. I know I'm not .. You can be .. But my Ancestors know .. And we aren't Apes ..

5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

And its both fact and theory. There's no getting around the fact. Illy tried to show it was flawed and failed miserably. Every argument he tried went down in flames. As have people like Ken Ham. While some don't wish to believe the facts, they just don't go away no matter how hard you wish them to.

I know what Illy did .. And Props to him .. 

Did he fail .. No .. Because he would have touched on points that resonate with many minds out there .. Something like this .. Hmm, Hell No .. We're not Apes ..

5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

And enlightenment. That's not at all what I see from people claiming to be spiritual in nature. The worst behaviour on these boards comes from those who claim such. 

Ok ..

Please, this is a joke .. It works both ways .. If you think you have been admirable and respectful in your approach, in debating .. Then Your "Delusional" .. There are some  Rude People here on both Sides .. But when One Side has all the back up to "Protect them" and their Collective Views , I'd call that .. Bull #### ..!!; A Grade Bull ####, at that ..

And .. Cry Me A River ..!!! Wah wah wah ..

5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Facts aren't agendas. What is ridiculous is making a claim from ignorance against basic knowledge. I honestly find it astounding that anyone in this day and age would still be so unaware of evolutionary fact and deny it on personal reasons. This is primary school stuff these days. 

Facts are So Agendas .. Uhhhh hello, most wars were waged on facts that turned out to be ... Lies .. Basic Knowledge .. Ok children you come from Apes ..

Stupid Knowledge .. Basic in its Essence of Keeping us Dumb and Stupid .. 

5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Thank you, and you have a wonderful day. 

Always My Good Friend ..

Thankyou for taking time to respond .. Much Appreciated ..

Have a great day Psyche ..

Mo ..xx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
StarMountainKid
4 minutes ago, MauriOra said:

Atamarie Star Mountain Kid ..

What a cool name too,BTW .. Awesomeness .!!

Ok, 

You say its important to "Realize" the "Difference" ..

What are you meant to "Realize" and What are the "Differences "?

Yes, Children play, and they know.. .. It is us that limits that realisation and the Differences within them .. Children are most wise because they are still connected to The Source .. 

When they " snap out of it " like you say, was that because of Parents input or them ..?

I'm just pondering .. You have a lot of great info.. As does our Learned Friend Psi Seeker ..

Thankyou ..xx

Mo ..xx

Well, I think there's two ways of looking at it. Sometimes when children play they loose themselves in the game. There is only the game, there are no players. Then they wake up and are themselves again. We could say they become separate ego's again. 

Then there is the sense that some believe the game is real life. They don't realize they are playing a game, and may not wake up from it. I won't go into the details of how many games there are to be played.

So, I think this loosing yourself part is the important point. Loosing ourselves in some activity is very interesting. In this case, who is doing the activity? I think the difference between these two scenario's is, in the first case we loose our separate ego and become one with the game. If we can continue with this experience when the game is over, we remain one with want we do next. The burden of the ego has fallen away. Very refreshing. 

Now we can come back to the ego when we want to, because we now know what our ego is and its effect. We can become ego-self or non-ego-self. We may actually prefer non-ego-self. 

In the second scenario,  we have also lost our self in the game, but we can't shed the game. The game becomes the burden instead of the ego. The game becomes the ego. We see this in people all the time.

I'm not sure if all this is clear to anyone. There's an old saying, who can tell the dancer from the dance? When we dance, we just dance. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MauriOra
3 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said:

Well, I think there's two ways of looking at it. Sometimes when children play they loose themselves in the game.

Yes .. How wonderful .. 

3 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said:

There is only the game, there are no players.Then they wake up and are themselves again. We could say they become separate ego's again. 

***

Very Interesting theory .. Nice 

 

***

Then there is the sense that some believe the game is real life. They don't realize they are playing a game, and may not wake up from it. I won't go into the details of how many games there are to be played.

***

Yes this Resonates with my Truths too ..

****

So, I think this loosing yourself part is the important point. Loosing ourselves in some activity is very interesting. In this case, who is doing the activity? I think the difference between these two scenario's is, in the first case we loose our separate ego and become one with the game. If we can continue with this experience when the game is over, we remain one with want we do next. The burden of the ego has fallen away. Very refreshing. 

****

Yes indeed .. It is .. 

****

Now we can come back to the ego when we want to, because we now know what our ego is and its effect. We can become ego-self or non-ego-self. We may actually prefer non-ego-self. 

***

I do not deny any parts of me .. I am both .. So the teaching for me is how to Make the Emotions on Go, to work with and for me and Not against me ..

****

In the second scenario,  we have also lost our self in the game, but we can't shed the game. The game becomes the burden instead of the ego. The game becomes the ego. We see this in people all the time.

****

Yes ..Excellent ..

***

I'm not sure if all this is clear to anyone. There's an old saying, who can tell the dancer from the dance? When we dance, we just dance. 

***

I Sense your Point your making .. Well done .. Thats actually quite Beautiful ..

***

Thankyou for your response .. Most Intriguing ..

Mo ..xx

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
psyche101
57 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Being human, what in the realities of life isn't interpreted? Even science has to be interpreted. This is what everyone does with evidence, whether it be subjective or objective evidence. This is done through our personal experience right? 

There's a huge difference between personal interpretation and Peer review though. Science discovery isn't interpreted by one's personal conclusion. If a claim is made, it has to be repeatable upon demand, offering predictability at the same time. A community has better resources to determine a true answer. 

When interpreting a conundrum through cultural aspects, your drawing a conclusion before you start. I just don't see how that is an answer, it's just satisfying the individuals curiosity. The real problem I think is when people believe their personal interpretations apply to others. Many heads are better than one, and that's how we arrive at the most likely conclusion. 

Quote

True. And this also applies to those personal experiences that are evidences of being in contact with something paradoxically much more than water. The water of life - experience with divinity - personal religion.

No it doesn't. Your god is different to Hammerclaws God and different to what other religions portray, therefore it is not a water of life. It is culturally sourced, and people live just fine, if not happier without religious ideologies.

That's personal. It doesn't apply to everyone. I don't need or want religion in my life as do many others. The radical people of Islam say you have it wrong, the mild ones will shake your hand and you will both walk away muttering how sad it is that the other party has been mislead down the wrong path. 

If I drink water, it's H2O, if you drink water it's H2O, religion is what a person imagines it to be  as is any god or spirit idealogy. 

They are not the same  so the same dies not apply to all by any means. 

Quote

What you've pointed to is valid. Organized institutional religion has lost its way. It doesn't do anymore what it used to. Which was to provide security in society.

 It its just doing what it always done. 

Quote

Today insitutional religion is faced with becoming completely irrelevant as a factor in life. This is especially true for our youth. They will not become stirred by the trumpet blasts from the Middle Ages.

And yet we lose far too many youth to radicalisation. The allure of being  a hero, even if 11th century thinking is the driving force. 

Institutionalised religion has always survived, it preys upon people. It uses guilt, hope, promises  anything for coercion. The person is just another cog in the religious wheel. As long as people are willing to give into it, it will be around. I'd like to hope that's not a permanent situation. 

Quote

But we're in a transitional era. The relevancy of religion is shifting away from insitutional religion and towards personal religion, which must be personally interpreted, and this development will encourage many, especially our youth as it becomes more ubiquitous in society.

 

This will take time. Evolution is slow and few things evolve slower than religion.

Not really, I can't see how that's not just science embarrassing religion. 

As our knowledge grows  we understand how far away from reality religion is. People get embarrassed by things like the God of the OT, the idea of making man from dirt, and a woman from a rib bone, the unequality, the stories of creation. As we get embarrassed by these infant ideas we move away from them just like a child who rejects a kiss from a parent in public, or a teen looking back at tellietubbies. 

Spirituality is just religion stripped of the most silly parts. It will be around until better knowledge is common knowledge. It's an easy path, simple to fit into any situation and entirely unaccountable. It's a simple one fits all solution that anyone can adopt and tailor. That's why it's popular currently. 

Quote

Once more, personal religion (true religion) is simply the experience of being in direct contact with divinity and this is not a choice, eventhough co-operating (faithing) with the spirit presence within is.

Its one being in contact with one's imagination as divinity is what one defines it as. You say once again, but I have to remind you once again, that is  personal journey that less people are taking than ever. Its very much a choice and that's why it's personal in every aspect. It cannot be sent as fire and brimstone as it once was. People thought once upon a time that if they were to blaspheme gods they would be struck down. Yet I can curse any god with the most vile of expletives wearing a lightning rod on my head. 

And in the same way, science erodes religious claims. I would be surprised if religion survived another 100 years to be honest. As education grows, like scientists today, many will just have no need to even think about a god. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
psyche101
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, MauriOra said:

Atamarie Sir ..

:st

Quote

Yes .. It matters ..Why Even Build Them Then .?? .. Weapons have  caused Massive Destruction WorldWide.. Where are the Wise Minds in that Industry,.. To Say Stop It Now ..  Are there any .? Do you know Psyche .?

Yes, 3,600 scientists signed an open letter asking the governments of the world to dismantle nuclear weapons. 

These talks are the first of their kind ever to take place at the UN.

The aim is to stigmatise nuclear weapons, as with biological and chemical weapons.

The ultimate goal is a world free of these weapons of mass destruction.

In support of these discussions, thousands of scientists from around the world have today released an open letter urging our national governments to achieve this goal of banning nuclear weapons.

The letter is signed by 23 Nobel Laureates, a past US Secretary of Defense, and many well-known scientists such as Stephen Hawking, Steven Pinker, Martin Rees and Daniel Dennett.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-28/why-scientists-signed-an-open-letter-on-banning-nuclear-weapons/8393330

This has been the case since we learned to create nuclear power, Einstein was told that Nazi Germany was ready to use an atomic weapon so in defence he agreed to sign a letter endorsing the research of building the bomb, but upon finding out it was not true, he became very depressed and opposed the use of the bomb on Japan considering it his greatest mistake. In 1946, Einstein was quoted by the New York Times as saying, “that he was sure that President Roosevelt would have forbidden the atomic bombing of Hiroshima had he been alive". Others, also quoted him as saying “I have always condemned the use of the atomic bomb against Japan” and “I made one great mistake in my life…when I signed the letter to President Roosevelt recommending that atomic bombs be made.”

These discoveries are inevitable. Its why positions of power like presidencies and prime ministers or such positions should not just be a vote, I think it should be like any job and require certain qualifications and have many compete for such positions. 

Quote

We are covered mostly by Water .. What discoveries are there .. The Deserts .. What is under all that sand ..We are only Limited by what we have access to .. So we or the Learned Minds in the Business, Gather what they have found, studied, and said .. Yip, this is Facts .. Is it Truth though ..

We map oceans and make finds there too. What was once ocean is now desert in many places. Understanding and piecing together other sciences like geology and the knowledge of tectonic movement tell us what has been where and the best places to look. I can only imagine what important finds could be awaiting us in the deep ice of Antarctica. But there's no good reason to think a new find will completely rewrite our understanding of the fossil record, it tells a clear story of evolution and migrations. 

Quote

I sincerely feel, this is Reversed .. It is Science that is Fearful of Spiritual Development .. Because, if Humanity claimed their rightful inheritance ..Mind Power.. Science in its Present Form, would not hold the All Knowing Power, that they hold in their hands right now .. In spirituality, Unity, Respect, Growth ,Personal Development, Understanding, Truths .. Balance, Equilibrium .. Service to the Greater Good .. Not for PROFIT ..!!!

Science does not profit. People who use aspects of science profit. Anyone can do that if they work hard enough at something. Even religion. 

There's absolutely nothing stopping people from claiming, prectising or seeking any sort of ancient knowledge or such. It's encouraged. We take great interest in our historical record. If this ancient knowledge "power" claim had anything to it, it would be more than a tall tale. There's nobody stopping anyone, problem is stories are just that. Stories. It's all talk and in my opinion, deliberate misinterpretation of old fables. 

Science has nothing to fear from superstition, it errodes superstition through rational explaination, on the other hand spiritualities fued on "materialism" and bogus claims of esoteric knowledge is no different to the mindset of the church suppressing science for self preservation. 

Quote

I am not Ignorant .. I am realistic .. This Data is ...  "Smack Talk" ..

Its not that I dont "Understand the info"  I Do .. It just sounds like Smack Talk to me .. We are not Apes .. Really who cares .. I know I'm not .. You can be .. But my Ancestors know .. And we aren't Apes ..

I find that hard to believe as if you did understand it then you would know its sound solid information and there's no reason to doubt it. "Smack talk" is not a valid criticism of the theory and does not refute the facts associated with evolution. 

We are great apes. Humans aka Homo sapiens, are the only extant members of the subtribe Hominina. The Hominina are sister of the Chimpanzees with which they form the Hominini belonging to the family of great apes.

There's just nothing to refute. DNA confirms this. 

Quote

I know what Illy did .. And Props to him .. 

Did he fail .. No .. Because he would have touched on points that resonate with many minds out there .. Something like this .. Hmm, Hell No .. We're not Apes ..

No, in my opinion such personal crusades are a pure menace. Now there's an agenda. Dragging others down to a level of ignorance to satisfy a personal crusade is less than admirable and I think that's what most saw in those discussions. 

Quote

Ok ..

Please, this is a joke .. It works both ways .. If you think you have been admirable and respectful in your approach, in debating .. Then Your "Delusional" .. There are some  Rude People here on both Sides .. But when One Side has all the back up to "Protect them" and their Collective Views , I'd call that .. Bull #### ..!!; A Grade Bull ####, at that ..

There's no backup. I tried to explain this to illy. If you use real facts to support a point of view, it's going to be irrerfutable. If you make stuff up you've got no support. I don't claim to be any sort of angel, pardon the expression, I just treat people how they threat me. That's fair isn't it? 

Quote

And .. Cry Me A River ..!!! Wah wah wah ..

Dearie me Mo. You're not showing your best side here. 

Quote

Facts are So Agendas .. Uhhhh hello, most wars were waged on facts that turned out to be ... Lies .. Basic Knowledge ..

No they are not, lies are not facts, lies are lies, facts are facts, that's why they have their own definitions in the dictionary. Wars have been carried out for many reasons, one big one being whose God is best. Countless billions have been killed in wars sacrifices and attacks in the name of God. 

Quote

Ok children you come from Apes ..

Yes and children can grow up to be geneticists and see it for themselves if they are so inclined. 

Quote

Stupid Knowledge .. Basic in its Essence of Keeping us Dumb and Stupid .. 

Are you reading what your typing? This is an oxymoron. 

Quote

Always My Good Friend ..

Thankyou for taking time to respond .. Much Appreciated ..

Have a great day Psyche ..

Mo ..xx

Most welcome  and you too. Good evening Mo. All the best. 

Edited by psyche101

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.