Atheism and faith

[danydandan]

6 minutes ago, pallidin said:

Radical Islam desires and efforts but one purpose... the entire World governed under Sharia law.

So does radical everything. I don't see the point in singling out Islam for this.

[Kismit]

7 minutes ago, danydandan said:

So does radical everything. I don't see the point in singling out Islam for this.

If only one theology was interested in World dominance it would already be in unquestioned power.

Radicalism or extremism comes in many forms

[pallidin]

Radical Islam is an identifyable enemy of World peace, with clear history.

Bring up a hundred other "radical ideologies" I can do it too.

Fine. But we must initially focus on the most powerful, which is undoubtedly radical Islam.

That's just common sense.

[danydandan]

9 minutes ago, Kismit said:

If only one theology was interested in World dominance it would already be in unquestioned power.

Radicalism or extremism comes in many forms

True my issue is Christians tend to forget their radical crusades which gave rise to radical Islam.

Extremism, radicalism and terrorism are phrases people use to describe opposing or different views from their own.

The truth is everything is radicalised when it suits, for example democracy is radicalised when faced with fascism like in works war two

[pallidin]

2 minutes ago, danydandan said:

True my issue is Christians tend to forget their radical crusades which gave rise to radical Islam.

Extremism, radicalism and terrorism are phrases people use to describe opposing or different views from their own.

The truth is everything is radicalised when it suits, for example democracy is radicalised when faced with fascism like in works war two

That sounds a lot like "let radical ideologies alone, no matter how many people they kill"

I would not accept that, nor should I.

[pallidin]

I don't agree with the barbaric Christian Crusade hundreds of years ago.

Past history, BTW.

But radical Islam is performing barbaric acts NOW, as we speak.

What, should we just allow this because the Crusades did?

That would be insane.

 

[danydandan]

7 minutes ago, pallidin said:

That sounds a lot like "let radical ideologies alone, no matter how many people they kill"

I would not accept that, nor should I.

No I'm trying to point out that people you deem radical, do not see themselves as radical, they see themselves as freedom fighters for example and visa versa, so in that context everything is radicalised.

There are bigger threats to world peace in the world than a number of p***ed off Muslims. There is a dictator in Russia acting like a Tsar, a clown in the White House ( although he has done some good in regards to N Korea), a nation with a standing army of two million that opposes democracy and a number of fascist states all over the planet.

 

Edited May 6, 2018 by danydandan

[freetoroam]

3 minutes ago, danydandan said:

True my issue is Christians tend to forget their radical crusades which gave rise to radical Islam.

Extremism, radicalism and terrorism are phrases people use to describe opposing or different views from their own.

The truth is everything is radicalised when it suits, for example democracy is radicalised when faced with fascism like in works war two

Yep...truth is they all choose to forget...as a non religious person i will not forget what any of them have done in the past. History has been changed by ALL the radical religions and i can not see what some have learnt from the many deaths of the past, is it really nothing? or are we just following the same path of 'my religion is better than yours'? .throw in the politics of today and i can not see this getting better.

 

[pallidin]

3 minutes ago, danydandan said:

No I'm trying to point out that people you deem radical, do not see themselves as radical, they see themselves as freedom fighters for example and visa versa, so in that context everything is radicalised.

 

Do freedom fighters have the right, in their fight, to blow-up babies via suicide vests?

No. That's just sick and twisted.

[XenoFish]

Laws, governments, religions, it's all an illusion.

[danydandan]

10 minutes ago, pallidin said:

Do freedom fighters have the right, in their fight, to blow-up babies via suicide vests?

No. That's just sick and twisted.

Of course not, I'm not making that argument no one is.

I can use one example close to home, the IRA fought for our Independence from England they weren't deemed terrorists by Irish people prior to our civil war. Most disagreed with the separation of Ulster (Northern Ireland) and as a result fought on the loosing side of the civil war. Afterwards they were deemed terrorists for still fighting for what they deemed was complete Independence from England.

The English killed thousands of innocent Catholics in Northern Ireland and the IRA killed hundreds of innocent Protestants in Northern Ireland and England. My point is if the IRA are deemed terrorists for their act so should the English government. Both sides are radicalised in their attempt to win or everything is radicalised by opposing views.

Do Americans deem the fighters for it's Independence as radical?

Edited May 6, 2018 by danydandan

[freetoroam]

18 minutes ago, pallidin said:

I don't agree with the barbaric Christian Crusade hundreds of years ago.

Past history, BTW.

But radical Islam is performing barbaric acts NOW, as we speak.

What, should we just allow this because the Crusades did?

That would be insane.

 

No of course not, but i understand where dany is coming from.

What we are seeing today is the continous line of politics and religion at its worse.

I am seeing the rise of islam in the west today, just as those well before saw the rise of christians and catholics, and it was not pretty back then and it is not pretty now.

12 minutes ago, pallidin said:

Do freedom fighters have the right, in their fight, to blow-up babies via suicide vests?

No. That's just sick and twisted.

NO ONE has a right to blow anyone else up because of their religion, had the christians or catholics had in the past have the weapons of today, we would not have reached a ww4. 

Again, as i am not religious i hold ALL equally responsible.

We in the west allowed the muslims to flourish here....we are selling out to them and putting them in positions of power and trust they will not want this to becone a muslim country one day....naivity at its highest. 

 

Edited May 6, 2018 by freetoroam

[pallidin]

History is history. We should talk about NOW.

Radical Islam, NOW, blows-up babies.

[SHaYap]

2 hours ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

Yes and I'm always searching. I read plenty of books.

However, I've heard atheists say that they would not accept Christianity, even it was true.

Don't worry yourself too much about that, if Christianity is True, there will be no denying or no unwillingness possible, that's what the ' If ' means ...

~

[danydandan]

12 minutes ago, pallidin said:

History is history. We should talk about NOW.

Radical Islam, NOW, blows-up babies.

And Americans blow up innocent people by proxy and remote drones, killing is killing and there is no right side.

Unless you think it's ok to kill people due their religious and political point of view?

Edited May 6, 2018 by danydandan

[danydandan]

48 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

We in the west allowed the muslims to flourish here....we are selling out to them and putting them in positions of power and trust they will not want this to becone a muslim country one day....naivity at its highest.

Are you saying you don't trust all Muslims?

Is so that is rediculous, there are good and bad people everywhere in every mode of life. If people haven't read the Quran and judge a group of people by their worst examples then there is something seriously wrong with them. Like the Bible the Quran teachs love, empathy and respect. However like the Christian Bible it's words can be twisted to mean anything.

Edited May 6, 2018 by danydandan

[freetoroam]

3 hours ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

Yes and I'm always searching. I read plenty of books.

However, I've heard atheists say that they would not accept Christianity, even it was true.

Well there has been plenty of time to prove it.  Even the christians are divided

Quote

 Early Christianity is often divided into three different branches that differ in theology and traditions, which all appeared in the 1st century AD. They include Jewish Christianity, Pauline Christianity and Gnostic Christianity.^[2]All modern Christian denominations are said to have descended from these three branches. There are also other theories on the origin of Christianity.^[3

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations

There are the cults

Quote

Christian sects crystallized into a more organized Christian countercult movement in the United States. For those belonging to the movement, all religious groups claiming to be Christian, but deemed outside of Christian orthodoxy, were considered cults.^[42] Christian cults are new religious movements which have a Christian background but are considered to be theologically deviant by members of other Christian churches.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult#Christian_countercult_movement

 

What do you see as the truth among ALL  that lot? 

[freetoroam]

15 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Are you saying you don't trust all Muslims?

Is so that is rediculous, there are good and bad people everywhere in every mode of life. If people haven't read the Quran and judge a group of people by their worst examples then there is something seriously wrong with them. Like the Bible the Quran teachs love, empathy and respect. However like the Christian Bible it's words can be twisted to mean anything.

Another point I'd like to make is do people view Isreal as a terrorist nation?

I do not trust most religious groups. I am not religious and would not follow any of their books or teachings. I do see the 'good' many preach about, but to me that should be taught to all irrellevant of a religion.

To love your fellow man should be in us all...it is not just a religious thing. 

The Americans do not view Isreal as a terrorist nation, but i certainly do. My father was in Palestine many years back and he saw down right murder of innocent people. 

We live in a world today where you can call certain religious groups terrorists, but not the Jews. That is anti what ever and they will sue you for it.  

Do not get me wrong, i am not against people, but if their religion puts my life in danger...then it is them and their religion i am against. I have been put in danger in London ... because of the IRA and  because of the muslim fundamentalists. Today in England the problem is muslim groups...if i wished to live in an areas with sharia law and mosques in every corner, i would move to saudi arabia. I live in a western world. But this does not mean i condone what the west have done in the middle east....i am disgusted by it all.

[danydandan]

15 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

I do not trust most religious groups. I am not religious and would not follow any of their books or teachings. I do see the 'good' many preach about, but to me that should be taught to all irrellevant of a religion.

To love your fellow man should be in us all...it is not just a religious thing. 

The Americans do not view Isreal as a terrorist nation, but i certainly do. My father was in Palestine many years back and he saw down right murder of innocent people. 

We live in a world today where you can call certain religious groups terrorists, but not the Jews. That is anti what ever and they will sue you for it.  

Do not get me wrong, i am not against people, but if their religion puts my life in danger...then it is them and their religion i am against. I have been put in danger in London ... because of the IRA and  because of the muslim fundamentalists. Today in England the problem is muslim groups...if i wished to live in an areas with sharia law and mosques in every corner, i would move to saudi arabia. I live in a western world. But this does not mean i condone what the west have done in the middle east....i am disgusted by it all.

I think fundamentalism more political than religious to be honest. In terms of the Catholic IRA anyway.

Edited May 6, 2018 by danydandan

[Guyver]

9 hours ago, pallidin said:

History is history. We should talk about NOW.

Radical Islam, NOW, blows-up babies.

And I don't think anyone around here disagrees with you.  We don't support it, we don't condone it, and most of us probably join you in considering these actions crimes against humanity.  Doing it in the name of religion just makes religion look more stupid than it already does.....IMHO.  

[pallidin]

Well said...

[Doug1029]

The God exists/God doesn't exist "debate" is asking the wrong question.  Ask 50 true believers if they have ever had a personal experience of God.  In that group, I bet you find quite a few.  Are they lying?  I don't think so.  They had an experience - there's no doubt of that.  But exactly what was that experience?  How did their minds create the experience they call "God?"

Science has made a few inroads toward answering that question and in the future will probably make more.  Eventually, god will be shown to be a function of mind - the experience of "God" will be proven valid.

So that's the question:  How does mind create God?

Doug

[SHaYap]

7 hours ago, Doug1o29 said:

So that's the question:  How does mind create God?

~

Pretty much the same way a good bartender creates a smooth Margarita ...

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  [00.05:43]

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[+Hammerclaw]

27 minutes ago, third_eye said:

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Pretty much the same way a good bartender creates a smooth Margarita ...

~

 

  [00.05:43]

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Ironically, when the Beach Boys first did this song for Kokomo as a tourist promo, it was rejected because of perceived drug use references. The Beach Boys then released it as a single. and made millions off of it and then charged Kokomo for their subsequent use of it. I must say, this is the most irritating version of it I've ever heard.

Edited May 9, 2018 by Hammerclaw

[SHaYap]

3 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

I must say, this is the most irritating version of it I've ever heard.

yeah, I agree ... the only upshot is that it does not sound like a tourist promo ...

 

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