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Atheism and faith

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Truthseeker007
4 minutes ago, MysticWolf said:

You help give meaning to revelation 1:18.

That passage reminds me a lot of the Egyptian Book of the Dead or something Osiris would say . It could be where the writers of Revelations got some of the ideas from.

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GoldenWolf
1 minute ago, Truthseeker007 said:

That passage reminds me a lot of the Egyptian Book of the Dead or something Osiris would say . It could be where the writers of Revelations got some of the ideas from.

Funny.

osiris-weighing.jpg

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Truthseeker007
6 minutes ago, MysticWolf said:

Funny.

osiris-weighing.jpg

That is interesting!:tu:

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GoldenWolf

2b7h56.jpg

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Truthseeker007
22 minutes ago, MysticWolf said:

Funny.

osiris-weighing.jpg

It seems someone actually put some info together about it:

 Practically all characters and groups of characters mentioned in the Book of Revelation have parallels in the ancient Egyptian pantheon and religious texts. Details of the physical attributes of some of these characters and groups of characters conform so well with those found in Egyptian texts as to render them practically indistinguishable. For example, many parallel scenes contain similarly peculiar or unusual elements in both sources -- the description of Revelation’s Lamb “standing” in the midst of the throne conforms with pictures of the juvenile, sheep-headed form of the sun-god standing in the midst of his shrine.

http://www.revorigin.com/hightlights-of-interest-to-christians-text-page.php

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Truthseeker007

Just one example out of the many:

 

 I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done. (Rev. 20:12)

The 8th Hour of the Book of Night contains several parallels with the text of Rev. 20:12. The parallel involving a visual puns for book and books  based on the illustration of the door panels and the uraeus serpent (some versions of this picture show a number of smaller serpents near the door on the left).

http://www.revorigin.com/similarities-between-contexts.php

Judgment%20Final%20great%20and%20small_jpg_opt620x190o0,0s620x190.jpg

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GoldenWolf
47 minutes ago, MysticWolf said:

Funny.

osiris-weighing.jpg

Heaven is said to be guarded by dogs in Zoroastrian scripture....

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Truthseeker007
27 minutes ago, MysticWolf said:

Heaven is said to be guarded by dogs in Zoroastrian scripture....

I know Zoroastrianism influenced the development of Judaism and the birth of Christianity.

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GoldenWolf
6 minutes ago, Truthseeker007 said:

I know Zoroastrianism influenced the development of Judaism and the birth of Christianity.

i-came-to-bring-fire-luke-12-49_0

Zoroaster.jpgchrist-the-redeemer-quick-facts.jpg

 

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Aquila King
6 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Why is the concept of atheism so hard for people to understand? 

Because they don't want to understand all while thinking they already do.

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Hammerclaw
10 hours ago, Sherapy said:

How is education, indoctrination?

Noun 1. indoctrination - teaching someone to accept doctrines uncritically
teaching, pedagogy, instruction - the profession of a teacher; "he prepared for teaching while still in college"; "pedagogy is recognized as an important profession"
brainwashing - forcible indoctrination into a new set of attitudes and beliefs
inculcation, ingraining, instilling - teaching or impressing upon the mind by frequent instruction or repetition
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D.O'N
1 hour ago, MysticWolf said:

i-came-to-bring-fire-luke-12-49_0

Zoroaster.jpgchrist-the-redeemer-quick-facts.jpg

 

Big statues are scary, they are so intimidating. Its like "damn you are huge".

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jmccr8
15 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Not me.  This is the opinion and findings of neuro scientists specialising in human  cognition and speech, of sociologists, psychologists and anthropologists, 

Th human mind is evolved to provide answers to the questions which our self awareness creates from observation (from birth a t least) 

Human children all  construct explanations for what they can see,  but not understand.

Very early (before they can speak) they  distinguish between agents and non agents (Agents are self directed/purposeful  entities which initiate or cause change)

Where the y cannot identify a known agent , they create one, so that they  create an understanding of the cause of change.  This compensates for fear of the unknown which is an evolved danger sign to humans 

You are not wrong with your  explanation, but the human mind doesn't just process or feed on external data, it creates, feeds on, and processes, data from within its mind, to make up for what it cannot know. Thus studies show that all human infants including thse of atheists construct magical agents, or god like beings, to explain their world . They do this before they can communicate with adults and learn what adults believe. 

Later on what you say is more true, as a child learns to understand language and what those around it believe in, or think.

Bring a child up, never mentioning the idea or concept of gods, and it will come up with them itself and create its own gods in order for it to be able to explain so much of what it observes  Eg  very young children, all round the world, when asked ,  indicated that they believed something put the seeds inside a gourd,  because, to their minds, how else would those seeds have got inside, and be rattling around . 

And you are correct about the development of minds and brains and neural connections, but his is why belief comes first and remains hardwired into human cognition It is why humans, even as adults have a propensity to construct beliefs to provide answers to the unknown.

  This is how the brain wired itself in the first couple of years of life and it takes quite a lot of rewiring to process differently, once you have  the data and experience to  know more, and understand what is really happening   

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Walker

In another discussion we were debating keeping a child in a sensory deprived state. Even so if what you are saying here a child would still create some form of interpreting their environment and develop even most sensitive senses to explore with do you see the point I am trying to get across to you in that discussion.An intelligent animal has both instinct and the ability to question why did they react that way and modify it to their advantage no matter how you reduce their environment. their are only two states of being animate or inanimate/ dead.

jmccr8

jmccr8

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jmccr8
13 hours ago, JMPD1 said:

Why are you so insistent that people need to believe as you do?

I really am curious

Hi JMPD1

Well  you know how it is, it's lonely at the top.:lol:

jmccr8

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Truthseeker007
2 hours ago, MysticWolf said:

i-came-to-bring-fire-luke-12-49_0

Zoroaster.jpgchrist-the-redeemer-quick-facts.jpg

 

:lol:

imagesC5WC7HSR.jpg

middle_zoro.jpg

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Sherapy
4 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

They're roughly the same thing. 

 

 

 

For ex: if one accepts the UB as fact and then proceeds to espouse it uncritically, this serves as an example of indoctrination. 

Now, you provide an example of indoctrination in education. 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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jmccr8
8 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Why is it ok for an atheist to tech their child that  god does not exist but not ok for theist to teach their child that he does?

I haven't noticed anyone dictating others not to teach about god, question why, yes of course it's a discussion forum. Most of us believe that if what works for you and is beneficial to all then great it's a person's choice. Refusing to understand the position of others is to you detriment, here you anonymously come here to flaunt your perspective and elate yourself but you rely on us just like we rely on you as a cog in a wheel. it doesn't matter what topic there is there are always more than 2 positions you apparently are focused on religious justification. You will have absolutely not effect on changing anyone's position as things stand.

jmccr8

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Will Do
7 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

 

Now, you provide an example of indoctrination in education. 

 

 

I thought HC already did.

 

Quote

indoctrination - 

teaching, pedagogy, instruction - the profession of a teacher; "he prepared for teaching while still in college"; "pedagogy is recognized as an important profession"
 
ˈpedəˌɡäjē/
noun
  1. the method and practice of teaching, especially as an academic subject or theoretical concept.

 

 

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jmccr8
7 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Ok so if i teach a child to be competitive or cooperative, socialist or individualistic, material or spiritual,  greedy or giving, passive or aggressive,    and so on, how am i not indoctrinating the child into a value system of my own, based on the beliefs i hold to be true  if i teach a child to like certain foods or certain types of people and dislike others, is that not indoctrination?  If i teach them to be  careless consumers or  sustainable users of our resources, isn't that indoctrination?  What about the things i leave out, either by deliberate omission or because i am not aware of them myself How much should i push a child to eat healthily, exercise regularly and to live healthily ? 

Should i push a child into sport, or reading, or socialising, or whatever i believe is necessary for good development of a child, or not?  .  What about the treatment of others?  How should l i indoctrinate/teach my child to treat  others, and on what values and logic do i base this decision? 

Hi Walker

Yes, should you push? Or should you inspire a desire? 

jmccr8

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Sherapy
1 minute ago, Will Due said:

 

I thought HC already did.

 

 
ˈpedəˌɡäjē/
noun
  1. the method and practice of teaching, especially as an academic subject or theoretical concept.

 

 

Will, 

This isn’t semantics, I am not disagreeing with how education or indoctrination are defined.

I am asking you to support your thesis with your reasons. You may or may not have a valid argument, I just need to know what it is. 

Why do you have the opinion that education is indoctrination?

 

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Aquila King
Quote

The difference between education and indoctrination is vast, but it is often subtle when the mind thinks of these two subjects. Education involves the seeking of facts, and learning about what is the truth, and what is not. Indoctrination is aimed at influencing people to believe in facts, without being able to back up these newfound facts with anything but opinion.

http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-education-and-indoctrination/

 

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danydandan
44 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Will, 

This isn’t semantics, I am not disagreeing with how education or indoctrination are defined.

I am asking you to support your thesis with your reasons. You may or may not have a valid argument, I just need to know what it is. 

Why do you have the opinion that education is indoctrination?

 

Even the semantics are wrong here, Education is the aquiring of skills, knowledge, beliefs, habits or values through learning, education does not define how this learning occurs, it can be through teaching, storytelling, discussion or experiment. You can even educate yourself.

Indoctrination is just teaching or forcing a person or group to accept what's being said, taught or witnessed uncritically.

A teacher can be used in both cases.

In my opinion, people who think indoctrination is education are of a result of a poor education.

One of the primary values in education is critical thinking, especially in college and university. Where you must back up your conclusions with verifiable evidence and citations. In primary or secondary learning you could argue that indoctrination is occurring, as to pass exams one must remember what it says in this book rather than be creative and think up your own hypotheses. However these books are based on current accepted scientifically backed up hypotheses and as a result need to be learned to develop a better platform from which to create your own ideas. So yes in most, if not all, primary and secondary schools indoctrination of a accepted hypotheses is happening. Also you will notice that school text books will change over time and evolve, albeit slower than universities.

Edited by danydandan
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Truthseeker007

:lol::tu:

christianity-the-belief-that-some-cosmic-jewish-zombie-can-make-you_resized.jpg

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Stubbly_Dooright
33 minutes ago, Sherapy said:
42 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

I thought HC already did.

 

 
ˈpedəˌɡäjē/
noun
  1. the method and practice of teaching, especially as an academic subject or theoretical concept.

 

 

Will, 

This isn’t semantics, I am not disagreeing with how education or indoctrination are defined.

I am asking you to support your thesis with your reasons. You may or may not have a valid argument, I just need to know what it is. 

Why do you have the opinion that education is indoctrination?

I would thoroughly disagree with Will's assessment that education and indoctrination are the same things. For me to explore this more in effect deeply in my opinion, I would think that would separate the good schools from the not so good schools. When a school rely's more on indoctrinating their students with a one sided base of knowledge, I don't think it's preparing them for their future. It's education, where teaching, (not forcing) all knowledge to prepare each person in the future, on all things. Giving them knowledge to help them make the choice for their own benefit, and not to make only one choice to benefit the system that indoctrinated them in the first place, is a good education, and in the end a better school. 

What's for the good of society? To make smarter people to better influence, or to make better robots to make society continuously stagnant? 

I don't see how one can see one is the same as the other, when the outcomes of both show great differences in what benefits and what doesn't. 

I have seen varying institutions that do each, and see how it influences their students in pluses and minuses of their effect in the world. 

 

 

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Truthseeker007
6 minutes ago, danydandan said:

 

Indoctrination is just teaching or forcing a person or group to accept what's being said, taught or witnessed uncritically.

 

Makes me think of this song:

 

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