2020 Democratic presidential candidate

[Aquila King]

25 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

So it isn't Crazy Bernie anymore?

I'm about 90% certain Bernie will run again in 2020.

If so he has my vote yet again.

[Aquila King]

14 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

Dude, I'm not a Marxist or a Communist. I'm sick to absolute death of people thinking that just because I'm to the left of you personally, that that suddenly means that I'm as far left as one could possibly be. That's nonsense. That's like saying "Oh, you're to the right of me? Well that must mean you're a fascist!" It's utter BS.

All I'm advocating for a dualistic system of free-market capitalism with a healthy dose of socialism to keep corporations from getting out of hand. I'm advocating for a system like Sweden or Finland. Do you see Sweden out there slaughtering hundreds of millions or showing the least bit of a sign that they intend to? No. Of course not. Because that's utterly ridiculous and you know it.

To further emphasize my point:

Oh my, what an evil dictator I am for wanting this ^ here.

[F3SS]

Dude Sweden has only 10m people. They key to success with those programs are small homogeneous populations and we always bring that up but it’s ignored. Same with Australia’s gun laws. They have 20m people. We have cities larger and more diverse than these major countries. Things are just different here. 

[RAyMO]

6 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Dude Sweden has only 10m people. They key to success with those programs are small homogeneous populations

UK is similar to Sweden but no charges for hospital stay circa 60m people. 

If it is about size then establish it on standalone State basis. But I would have thought that size would give you major economy of scale advantages - for example a USA Health Service negotiating price reductions from pharma companies so that prices are more in line with what other countries pay for drugs.

[F3SS]

12 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

UK is similar to Sweden but no charges for hospital stay circa 60m people. 

If it is about size then establish it on standalone State basis. But I would have thought that size would give you major economy of scale advantages - for example a USA Health Service negotiating price reductions from pharma companies so that prices are more in line with what other countries pay for drugs.

I’m pretty sure big pharma rips us off because they can because insurance will pay for it. I have little faith that my government will be more thrifty with our tax dollars. Not with lobbyists setting the prices. Although that one punk who price gouged (epipen?) did get grilled by Congress and sentenced. 

Edited April 25, 2018 by F3SS
Changed didn’t get grilled to did

[F3SS]

Meant to add that I have less of an issue with states experimenting with healthcare. States rights, state competition. Our 50 states do compete with each other on many levels.

[RAyMO]

1 minute ago, F3SS said:

I’m pretty sure big pharma rips us off because they can because insurance will pay for it.

I am pretty sure you're right.

And the insurance will pay for it because they are passing the cost to to the people. In other words the Insurance companies have little incentive to force the pharma companies to ...  play fair lets say.

[AnchorSteam]

7 hours ago, Aquila King said:

To further emphasize my point:

Oh my, what an evil dictator I am for wanting this ^ here.

 

"@sweresistance" .... with all that, what are they resisting, exactly? 

I could go list all the things that are gong wrong over there, but I don't want to step on anyone's dreams.... I just wonder why you don't move to the most superior place on Earth.  And that isn't me being snarky, if it really is all that, they why not?

I don't believe it myself, and I know what happens to people who speak out about what is wrong there.

And if I could have all that for the low-low price of 50-75% of everything I earn, I still have to say no.

[acidhead]

11 hours ago, Aquila King said:

If you think I'm trying to act like some moral paragon you're sadly mistaken. I'm just a boring average human being. At the end of the day I can be somewhat selfish and a bit of a dick. I've certainly done a number of things in my lifetime I'm not proud of, so I'm not some great arbiter of moral truth here.

It doesn't take an extremely virtuous individual like Superman to know that Nazism is wrong. The same is true in regards to banning ALL Muslims from entering the country, or giving people who simply lack the money for medical bills a death sentence, or implementing torture, or killing innocent civilians as legitimate targets of war, or voting for a pedophile in Alabama, etc.

You don't have to be a moral paragon to be disgusted with that s**t. You just have to be a decently average human being. I'm not standing on some moral high ground. It's just that some of you people that support this s**t are lower than dirt.

 

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by acidhead

[Aquila King]

2 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

I could go list all the things that are gong wrong over there, but I don't want to step on anyone's dreams....

And I'm positive that whatever pointless things you go to list out would have nothing to do with the specific issues I'm commending them for.

So go on, 'dash my dreams' away!  It won't change the fact that their healthcare system, education system, overall happiness rating, etc. is much much better.

2 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

I just wonder why you don't move to the most superior place on Earth.  And that isn't me being snarky, if it really is all that, they why not?

I am sick to death of this same ol' hateful and dumb ass talking point. It is so demonstrably stupid and ridiculous to tell someone "If you don't like America, then leave!" Here's why:

First of all, I was born here. Just because some politicians in DC claim they own 2.8 million square miles between two oceans, taking up almost half of North America–one of only seven continents on Earth, does not mean it is my responsibility to leave if I don’t like the way they regularly treat me and my fellow human beings. It's my responsibility as an American citizen to call out the corruption of my government and to push for the policies that I believe to be best for the well-being of the American people. Simply telling someone to leave if they don't like it here robs them of their civil duty as American citizens.

Secondly, someone can easily turn that phrase right around towards you. Examples: “Oh you don’t like taxes going towards healthcare and education? Well it is our civic duty, so if you don’t want to pay for American people's well-being, then get out!” or “If you don’t like the President the people elected you can get out!” or “If you don’t like regulation from the EPA, FDA, or Department of Energy, why don’t you move to Somalia where there is no regulation?” Disagreeing with something, and even going to extremes in using free speech to get your point across, does not mean you have no business living anywhere from sea to shining sea.

Third, instead of trying to improve this nation in areas that I as a citizen hold the right to view as wrong, instead of pointing out what's wrong with this nation in the hopes of improving it, I am supposed to leave because I disagree with whatever arbitrary group tells me to? I'm sorry, but I have a deep love and adoration for this nation, and because of that, I want it to be the best that it could be. You feel the same way I suppose, and I'd venture a guess that you'd want to change at least a few of the ways things are done around here so as to improve it for the better also. Should I then kick you out by saying "If you don't like the way things are done around here, why don't you just leave?" That's nonsense and you know it.

We are all Americans here, with our own ideas of what would make this country better. Just telling those you disagree with to "move if they don't like it here" is childish and silly, and stifles any real debate. It's incredibly stupid, because it puts you into a perpetual never-ending cycle in which you can NEVER criticize any government policies, because then if you do you can just be told that if you don't like it then just leave. So no, this is my home, I'm an American citizen, my family is here, I have a right to live here, I have a right to voice my opinion, and I have the right to push for the right policies that I believe will most benefit me and my fellow Americans whether you like it or not. I'm not going anywhere.

[aztek]

7 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

 

I could go list all the things that are gong wrong over there, but I don't want to step on anyone's dreams....

pm them to me and i'll post it, i have no problem debunking lies and illusions.

i strongly believe, the truth may hurt, but selective ignorance is fatal

Edited April 26, 2018 by aztek

[preacherman76]

16 hours ago, Aquila King said:

To further emphasize my point:

Oh my, what an evil dictator I am for wanting this ^ here.

What good is cheap medical when they take over half your check every week? No way I could survive if I had to pay 61% of my earnings to the government. One night in the hospital cost a lot more then 10 bucks, they are just paying the bill before hand. I guess people in Sweden make a lot more money then the average joe around my neck of the woods.

Honestly, how can you look at the income rate people pay there and say they are not a strict socialist country? Please help me understand here. How do you think America with its hundreds of million more people, with millions already on some type of welfare, and say this is the model we should be striving for?

[AnchorSteam]

9 hours ago, Aquila King said:

And I'm positive that whatever pointless things you go to list out would have nothing to do with the specific issues I'm commending them for.

A pre-loaded dismissal of anything that might show you are wrong. 

Gotcha, it is pointless to argue, so instead I will lay out my facts. 

9 hours ago, Aquila King said:

So go on, 'dash my dreams' away!  It won't change the fact that their healthcare system, education system, overall happiness rating, etc. is much much better.

Well, you say that one moment, but the next;

9 hours ago, Aquila King said:

I am sick to death of this same ol' hateful and dumb ass talking point. It is so demonstrably stupid and ridiculous to tell someone "If you don't like America, then leave!" Here's why:...

Yeah, cheap shot, but it was to make a point.

You missed the point.

If Sweden is entirely superior to the place you live, why not go there as so many hundreds of thousands of Arabs have done (and they don't know the language either)  ... instead of trying to transform a nation 30 times larger into a carbon-copy of that place?

Many millions of people have entered the USA illegally, we make citizens of over one million immigrants per year, there must be something we are doing right.

 

However.... to follow your point  about making your own nation a better place to live- why isn't that ever applied to any of the people who live in any other nation in Earth? Mexico is the best example of a nation that desperately needs reform, but instead the Left helps enable their decrepitude. The aristocratic oligarchs of Mexico city consume all of the wealth produced in that country, and thanks to their oil exports that is a considerable sum. They have also abandoned 80% of their rural area to the tender mercies of the Drug Cartels. They manage to get away with all this corruption because they can send all the energetic young bucks who would normally lead a Revolution to the USA instead, and let them expend all their energy working away at half minimum wage and mailing most of the money they make to the Mexican economy. 

It is a travesty and a chain of exploitation that can only be ended one way; the wall.  However, the greed of Mexican aristocrats and US Corporations prevents any possibility of reform and a better future for everyone but the scum that has risen to the top. 

 

So, no, immigration is not the answer to everything. In some cases it is enabling evil in the worst way possible. 

[hatecraft]

20 hours ago, Aquila King said:

To further emphasize my point:

Oh my, what an evil dictator I am for wanting this ^ here.

Strict gun laws inhibit freedoms.

[Aquila King]

51 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

A pre-loaded dismissal of anything that might show you are wrong. 

Gotcha, it is pointless to argue, so instead I will lay out my facts. 

I'm dismissing it because I already know the polls and statistics regarding these countries on these key issues I've named in comparison to the US, and so any 'facts' you claim to have that paint them in a negative light would be irrelevant to the key issues at hand.

It's like if I were to tell you that a group of scientists have discovered X and so therefore Y must be true, and you come back with "But some of these scientists are sleazy adulterers who cheat on their wives!" (or whatever else) The fact that they cheat on their wives has nothing to do with the results of their scientific study, so why should I care what they do in their personal lives?

I already know that Sweden's healthcare system, education system, etc. is far better than that of the US, so whatever senseless smear you wanna throw at Sweden is by definition irrelevant.

And don't even waste my time arguing that our healthcare system etc. is somehow better. The statistics say otherwise. If you want to argue that 'we can't afford it', then I can understand that mentality to some extent (though I strongly disagree). Although I won't waste my time arguing basic facts with people. That's not me being 'dismissive', it's simply me not being willing to entertain people's delusions as if they were worthy of debate.

1 hour ago, AnchorSteam said:

Well, you say that one moment, but the next;

Quote

I am sick to death of this same ol' hateful and dumb ass talking point. It is so demonstrably stupid and ridiculous to tell someone "If you don't like America, then leave!" Here's why:...

Yeah, cheap shot,

Cry me a river. Whenever I or anyone else says something the least bit insulting you cry and moan like a little b****, all while Trump and his supporters can say just about every unimaginably disgustingly insulting thing, and they of course somehow get a free pass. I'm sick of it and I'm done. If you don't like it then you can go to your little safe space ya snowflake.

1 hour ago, AnchorSteam said:

but it was to make a point.

You missed the point.

If Sweden is entirely superior to the place you live, why not go there as so many hundreds of thousands of Arabs have done (and they don't know the language either)  ... instead of trying to transform a nation 30 times larger into a carbon-copy of that place?

I've already justified my position, so there's no need to reiterate my point.

I'm an American citizen, this is my home, and I have a right to fight for the change my country needs.

1 hour ago, AnchorSteam said:

Many millions of people have entered the USA illegally, we make citizens of over one million immigrants per year, there must be something we are doing right.

Just because the US is better than places like Mexico or Syria, doesn't mean that we are by any means the cream of the crop. I mean you act like the mere fact that we have millions of immigrants means that we're the best there is. Other countries have similar statistics (if not more so) percentage wise, yet that of course gets conveniently overlooked.

1 hour ago, AnchorSteam said:

However.... to follow your point  about making your own nation a better place to live- why isn't that ever applied to any of the people who live in any other nation in Earth?

Uh, it is dude.  Wtf are you talkin' about?

People of other nations try to reform their nations for the better all the time. I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

If I had to venture a guess, if you mean: "Why do people immigrate to other countries at all when they could simply fight to reform their own countries?" Then the answer is simple: that's just a personal decision on their part that each and every individual has the right to make. It's not mine nor anyone else's business to tell them they should or should not stay where they live. It's as simple as that.

1 hour ago, AnchorSteam said:

Mexico is the best example of a nation that desperately needs reform, but instead the Left helps enable their decrepitude. The aristocratic oligarchs of Mexico city consume all of the wealth produced in that country, and thanks to their oil exports that is a considerable sum. They have also abandoned 80% of their rural area to the tender mercies of the Drug Cartels. They manage to get away with all this corruption because they can send all the energetic young bucks who would normally lead a Revolution to the USA instead, and let them expend all their energy working away at half minimum wage and mailing most of the money they make to the Mexican economy. 

That's quite frankly Mexico's problem, not ours. (Mostly because illegal immigration from Mexico is at a net 0 atm, but I digress) It's not our job to reform other countries, only to reform our own. It's the Mexican citizen's job to deal with their own country. it's none of our business.

1 hour ago, AnchorSteam said:

It is a travesty and a chain of exploitation that can only be ended one way; the wall.

I won't waste my time any further debunking the ridiculous wall claim. Best of luck with your delusional solutions to non-issues.

1 hour ago, AnchorSteam said:

However, the greed of Mexican aristocrats and US Corporations prevents any possibility of reform and a better future for everyone but the scum that has risen to the top.

Funny how you bring up the greed of US Corporations given that the Republicans in office just gave them the biggest tax cuts in US history. I'm not quite sure if you're aware of the fact that you're complicit in their greed and corruption or not...

1 hour ago, AnchorSteam said:

So, no, immigration is not the answer to everything. In some cases it is enabling evil in the worst way possible.

I genuinely do not understand in the slightest why Republicans are so anti-immigration. I understand not wanting genuine criminals into the country, but the overwhelming majority of immigrants are no such thing. We already have one of the most extreme vetting processes in the developed world, so what's the damn big issue? It makes absolutely no sense.

Though considering your other delusional BS, it shouldn't be a surprise really.

[Aquila King]

1 hour ago, hatecraft said:

Strict gun laws inhibit freedoms.

Strict murder laws inhibit freedoms. They inhibit the freedom to murder. Should we be lax on them too?

I swear, it's like you people lack basic critical thinking skills...

[Aquila King]

4 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Honestly, how can you look at the income rate people pay there and say they are not a strict socialist country? Please help me understand here. How do you think America with its hundreds of million more people, with millions already on some type of welfare, and say this is the model we should be striving for?

I can say that because the math and statistics bear it out. You want to argue mathematics with me as a partisan issue? No thanks. I've already tried that on here before and it goes absolutely nowhere. There's no sense debating people who deny that 2+2=4 for political reasons.

[preacherman76]

44 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

I can say that because the math and statistics bear it out. You want to argue mathematics with me as a partisan issue? No thanks. I've already tried that on here before and it goes absolutely nowhere. There's no sense debating people who deny that 2+2=4 for political reasons.

Well I know one math problem that is a certainty. If you start taking over half of people’s pay checks, we are going have many more poor people. Very much including myself. Please explain to me how making my once every few years trip to the hospital for free is a good trade off for poverty?

[A rather obscure Bassoon]

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/04/24/ontarios-basic-income-experiment-would-continue-under-doug-ford.html

Why would anyone not want to control their own destiny?

Government programs can end at any time.

[aztek]

lol, they think experiment with 6000 people will have the same result as with entire country population?   

didn't we already tried that with homeless in SF, in hopes they will get their sht together and get jobs and places to live, but no they did not, what happened was homeless from all over us came to SF for free money.  

[F3SS]

3 hours ago, Aquila King said:

Strict murder laws inhibit freedoms. They inhibit the freedom to murder. Should we be lax on them too?

I swear, it's like you people lack basic critical thinking skills...

Critical thinking? Wow bro. That’s like, so deep man. Actually, it’s stupid. Freedoms and rights don’t infringe on another’s. My gun doesn’t infringe on your rights and freedoms. Freedom to murder is inhumane and barbaric. These comebacks to guns and freedoms intended to discount and belittle, like owning nukes and freedom murder or else bearing arms and being free aren’t really real and we are idiots for thinking they are, are small minded and dimwitted.

Edited April 26, 2018 by F3SS

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

3 hours ago, Aquila King said:

Strict murder laws inhibit freedoms. They inhibit the freedom to murder. Should we be lax on them too?

I swear, it's like you people lack basic critical thinking skills...

Seriously?

SERIOUSLY?

Mate, I’ve gotten into shouting matches with folks here over gun culture etc and Even I think that that post is daft. And insultingly tone deaf, and dare I even say ignorant? 

[preacherman76]

1 hour ago, F3SS said:

Critical thinking? Wow bro. That’s like, so deep man. Actually, it’s stupid. Freedoms and rights don’t infringe on another’s. My gun doesn’t infringe on your rights and freedoms. Freedom to murder is inhumane and barbaric. These comebacks to guns and freedoms intended to discount and belittle, like owning nukes and freedom murder or else bearing arms and being free aren’t really real and we are idiots for thinking they are, are small minded and dimwitted.

Its a dumbing down of the conversation, again to appeal to emotion. They do this with every single debate. I mean we can't have guns around, might as well be lax on murder if we do

[hatecraft]

4 hours ago, Aquila King said:

Strict murder laws inhibit freedoms. They inhibit the freedom to murder. Should we be lax on them too?

I swear, it's like you people lack basic critical thinking skills...

Thank you for not insulting my intelligence.  

[Aquila King]

4 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Well I know one math problem that is a certainty. If you start taking over half of people’s pay checks, we are going have many more poor people. Very much including myself. Please explain to me how making my once every few years trip to the hospital for free is a good trade off for poverty?

It's like you're blissfully unaware of the literally trillions of dollars of tax cuts Trump and the Republicans gave to the super rich, or that 0.1% of Americans own more wealth then the other 99.9% combined, or that we've wasted trillions of dollars (if you count interest) in Iraq alone, much less any other wasted military venture.

The money's there, it's just not in your paycheck. It's in the pockets of those scammers you voted for.