Home invasion repelled with guns

[Dark_Grey]

Armed bystander kills shooter at Oklahoma City restaurant
Link

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A man walked into Louie's Grill & Bar and opened fire, striking three people, who are expected to survive. As the gunman ran from the scene, the bystander armed with a pistol confronted and fatally shot him outside the restaurant, Oklahoma City police Capt. Bo Mathews told reporters.

"Right now, all I know is that it was just a good Samaritan that was there and looks like he took the right measures to be able to put an end to a terrible, terrible incident," Mathews said.

 

[aztek]

wait till someone comes in with "he did not have to kill the guy"

[aztek]

2 civilians rushed to their cars to get their guns before fatally shooting Oklahoma City restaurant gunman.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/civilian-shoots-kills-suspect-opened-fire-oklahoma-city-100100575--abc-news-topstories.html

 

if they had guns with them, in the restaurant, the shooter would be killed sooner,

[AnchorSteam]

On 5/24/2018 at 6:18 PM, psyche101 said:

I disagree, I've tried to keep the op in the conversation but all your interested in is a gun culture debate. I keep saying it's supposed to be about that incident representing a good reason for deadly weapons in the household and it illustrates the very opposite to a rational mind. 

 

Prove it.

And you have made personal insults to me at least half a dozen times in this thread. I have not been keeping an exact count because it is petty and meaningless, but when you sit on your High Horse you should know that its really just a Rocking Horse. 

BTW- you keep trying to make Facebook the critical point here, but unless you can point a gun at this screen and shoot me through the internet, it means nothing.

Oh.... are you saying that strong arguments on line should be illegal now?

Seems like censorship is heading that way. 

On 5/24/2018 at 6:18 PM, psyche101 said:

So someone has am axe to grind with Obama.  isn't that a national pastime over there? 

Here is a free clue for you; nobody had even heard of Obama in 1996.

Honestly, that's not even 22 years ago, does nothing that happened in any other century exist for you?

On 5/24/2018 at 6:18 PM, psyche101 said:

The link states that the Vox doesn't see a causal link in its charts, and the official statement that article quotes does not indicate confiscation, it clearly states gun owners had to show genuine reason for owning a weapon. 

Criminal activity is not one such exception. So how does that not make it all the harder for the undesirables to take advantage of lax laws and then use that advantage to commit crime? 

And it states no significant impact is obvious? ....

And on and on he goes....

Just because you don't understand my point does not make it invalid.

On 5/24/2018 at 6:18 PM, psyche101 said:

Yes it look familiar, it's a poster for the 2017 amnesty. People are encouraged to submit non complying weapons without fear of prosecution. 

And in Western Australia. Miles from anywhere really. 

What difference does that make? Are Rural areas beneath consideration?

The threat in the poster speaks for itself.

On 5/24/2018 at 6:18 PM, psyche101 said:

The US has a mass shooting on a regular basis. I can't see how that claim applies. That's what we are discussing is it not? The US situation? 

Well, if it is happening on a "regular" basis, then tell us when the next one will be.

You know, will it be 3 days, 5 days, 2 weeks, 2 months?

That is what the word Regular means, after all. If it is so regular, then it should be easy for you to say so. 

On 5/24/2018 at 6:18 PM, psyche101 said:

I'm saying I live here and I know my own country and that we don't have mass shootings. Isolated incidents from mentally unwell people, immigrants who do not understand or accept our gun policies, high end criminals or financial failure suicides are not mass public killings, those incidents are exaggerated to use statistics to paint a picture that does not reflect the reality of the situation. It's a zealous attempt by gun proud people who wish to find any aspect they can to validate a want. 

Then forget them and concentrate on the public sector and the mass murder reductions. No children go to school here and get killed for that. People don't go for a picnic or to a nightclub and get slaughtered for it  and nobody shoots up a movie theater. How is that not worth the regulation? 

Once again, we have ten times as many people.

Where the hell is your sense of proportion, anyway? Can your political beliefs stand to have on, or what?

It is getting pretty laughable, to tell the truth. That is why I keep coming back, its worth a good giggle every time.

Now.... we have had one mass shooting in a theater. Lets see, one tenth of one is not much over the course of the last 20 years.... I guess if you have one over the course of 2 centuries you will have caught up with us.

Unless there has been one in AUstralia since 1818, so there goes that.

 

"No children go to school here and get killed for that".... killed for what, exactly? 

On 5/24/2018 at 6:18 PM, psyche101 said:

No, how can you possibly be that thick, are you trying especially hard to be obtuse or what? 

I said a bunch of weapons are useless against a modern government. It has all sorts of strike capabilities to end an insurgency in matter of minutes. This is not the 1700s. Its 2018. 

You said do I expect help in a war situation

I said yes I expect our allies with nuclear capabilities whom we have offered support to historically to assist with nuclear defence if it becomes a genuine issue as we have agreed not to hold or make nuclear weapons. 

How you got that twisted version out of that is truly an unexplained mystery. 

You live in the past. It's counter productive in a modern world. Sure we have lessons to learn from, that's the key. Learning from them, not using them as a standard. 

Because all of that came into question when you said that an armed populace cannot stand against the arms of a modern Government.

And you would be wrong about that, as I hinted earlier when I mentioned Vietnam. 

The reference didn't register, did it?

Its okay, most other folks got it. 

On 5/24/2018 at 6:18 PM, psyche101 said:

No it's not punishment, its accountability, I am more than suspicious if those who consider responsibility punishment. They tend to be the people who know they are doing the wrong thing and wish to hide that. 

And you could also say regulation would be ten times more effective. I think you would use any excuse to avoid responsibility. 

The fact remains that you are blaming every Legal gun owner for every crime committed by any and all armed criminals.... curious, since you just lectured ME about blaming Islam (an ideology, not a race) for the ideological terror committed by a few radicals.

That is not very consistent on your part, is it?

On 5/24/2018 at 6:18 PM, psyche101 said:

 

Yes, its a descriptor, it helps get the point across 

It is called Trolling.

Oh, and BTW; your "jokes" are like everything else that comes from the Left; petty, mean and slanted to favor Leftists.

On 5/24/2018 at 6:18 PM, psyche101 said:

You're placing it above the community by stating that the best action for the community is punishment for the individual. Its not punishment though, its accountability for the bigger picture by showing responsibility for owning a deadly weapon. 

You are assuming that we don't, and that is not true. We take gun safety very seriously here, don't they do that in Australia at all?

On 5/24/2018 at 6:18 PM, psyche101 said:

What more needs be offered? It's what happens when gun culture breeds complacency with a deadly weapon. 

And here, I thought we were talking about military intervention.

Oh yeah, we were.  

On 5/24/2018 at 6:18 PM, psyche101 said:

No they can't, we don't stockpile everything we have in one location. 

It is called an armory. Okay, it would take a couple of dozen of them, one for every military base in your country, and there is nothing the military could legally do about it. 

On 5/24/2018 at 6:18 PM, psyche101 said:

You're on your own there, I don't see how that applies to gun regulation, or our police forces at all. 

Once again, refusing to look at any evidence whatsoever that might contradict your opinion will cripple your case.

It was a study that had to be cut short because ordinary people given both power and anonymity were shown to be frighteningly abusive, brutal, even.... a warning to us all.

.... as if Auschwitz wasn't enough. 

On 5/24/2018 at 6:18 PM, psyche101 said:

Plenty, in general I have confidence in our police, they do a great job and are friendly to the community. It might even be another positive aspect of gun control fir that matter. 

Seeing is believing -

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=police+abuse+of+power+2018

 

On 5/24/2018 at 6:18 PM, psyche101 said:

I have no interest in your zealous personal approach to community safety. 

Oh be still my heart! 

On 5/24/2018 at 6:18 PM, psyche101 said:

Rubbish. Your founding fathers were at musket level technogy, how are you proposing their thoughts were able to account for things like drones or religious based terrorism? 

Specifically, what law made by the, what article in the Bill of Rights, is negated by technology?

I'd like to know what was written by them, what section of our Constitution, was made obsolete by Drones.

And Religious terrorism was unknown to the world of the 1700s?   Seriously, is that your final answer?  Might wanna reconsider that,

On 5/24/2018 at 6:18 PM, psyche101 said:

If the average Tutsi homeowner didn't live in a third world country they would be in the situation they are on. Its not an equal comparison from any view. 

Hey, it happened in our glorious enlightened age, something you have been saying is not possible.

On 5/24/2018 at 6:18 PM, psyche101 said:

And Pol Pot suicided before he could face the war crimes he had committed, that would not happen in the 1700s, different world. 

So.... now you are saying that no defeated despots killed themselves in the 1700s because they were afraid to face the penalties of their actions?

I'm am very suspicious of your knowledge of anything at all that happened prior to your date of birth. Serious as a heart-attack here, you really need to start looking into all that.

Might wanna start with the French Revolution. 

On 5/24/2018 at 6:18 PM, psyche101 said:

People insisting that regulation is a punishment are empowering criminals by making access to weapons easy and cheap. And that puts the entire community at risk. 

Regulation and the penalties attached are indeed a punishment when you suddenly rule somebody's property illegal, property that may have been in the family for generations. 

Yeah, we know, "its all for the greater good" or "safety". Well, learn about the country you telling to change to suit yourself, read some of the posts made by other people here. Learn about our situation first.

On 5/24/2018 at 6:18 PM, psyche101 said:

Of course I have heard of them, and I applaud their valiant efforts that were doomed to failure thanks to surrounding states who did not support them and made it as easy as ever to gain illegal access to deadly weapons. How can regulation work when a 2 hour drive takes you to a state outside of that legislation? 

How can you keep retreating to Queensland when confronted with the True crime statistics for Australia?

People can read, you know, and have longer memories than you seem to admit to having. 

On 5/24/2018 at 6:18 PM, psyche101 said:

No, I don't know how you read these things into my posts, it had to be deliberate. 

Its very simple, try reading what you post before hitting that little button first next time.

And speaking of Bigotry, towards the beginning of this thread you attempted to blame the stats on violent crime in Australia on immigrants.

Tsk... not very Liberal of you, was it?

 

And there is THE CRITICAL FACT -

 

On 5/24/2018 at 10:26 PM, Alaric said:

Yep, using that same logic you could say they don’t care about the literally millions of muggings, rapes, assaults and other violent crimes prevented every year by guns in the hands of citizens...

From an analysis of a CDC study on defensive gun usage:

“The final adjusted prevalence of 1.125% therefore implies that in an average year during 1996-1998, 2.23 million U.S. adults used a gun for self-defense against a person. This estimate confirms the 2.5 million past-12-months estimate obtained Kleck and Gertz (1995). As a point of comparison, the National Crime Victimization Survey estimated that there were 680,391 violent crimes committed by offenders possessing (though not necessarily using) firearms in 1997 (U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics 1999). CDC’s results, then, imply that guns were used defensively by victims more than three times as often as they were used offensively by criminals.”

 

I mentioned this before, and you dismissed it by saying you didn't believe it.

Now here it is, backed by the utterly trustworthy Govt that you are telling us to bet our future existence on.

Any thoughts on THIS?

Or does willful ignorance guide the anti-gun gang in all cases like this?

[F3SS]

On 5/25/2018 at 6:57 AM, skliss said:

That doesn't mean handing our personal safety, and guns, over to someone else...who doesn't have the same level of caring or love for my family as I do.

Yes we should hand the responsibility of our safety solely to the people who... can’t seem to efficiently enforce all of the existing laws that exist for our... safety?! That’s how I see it.

Good luck with your self defense classes. That’s pretty cool.

[skliss]

7 hours ago, F3SS said:

Yes we should hand the responsibility of our safety solely to the people who... can’t seem to efficiently enforce all of the existing laws that exist for our... safety?! That’s how I see it.

Good luck with your self defense classes. That’s pretty cool.

Agreed!

Thanks! We are very excited about it and worked hard to not only include the physical, and practical safety,  but are incorporating somethings that are more conceptual. We feel that women are approached and attacked very differently, not always in a physical manner, but maybe in a way to gain confidence first, etc. Fingers crossed it goes well! We'd like to teach it on a continuing basis.

[psyche101]

On 5/25/2018 at 8:57 PM, skliss said:

The point being that you don't know what their intentions were. They broke into someone else's house with a weapon in hand. You have no idea what the level of threat expressed on Facebook was...did they say they were coming over for tea? Did they say, I'm coming to your house to "mess" you and your family up?

We know both parties threatened each other on social media, we know nobody with a gun made it through the door and we know the shootout started over yelling and loud noises, there is no good reason from any of the surrounding circumstances to suspect rape was ever a motive, the gun brought to the science was found at the front door so nobody got inside with a gun that the entire party of young people state they didn't know was there. It was an overly zealous reaction that had the worst possible consequences. 

On 5/25/2018 at 8:57 PM, skliss said:

My friend and I are teaching our first women's self defense course starting in June and one thing we will stress is self defense is your responsibility. 

Then you would have reported the Facebook threats to police if you thought any real altercation might arise would you not? 

On 5/25/2018 at 8:57 PM, skliss said:

I've never liked guns, I think they are scary and dangerous but it's people like you that are making me consider, for the first time, learning to shoot and getting my CCW.

Because I live where gun control stopped public slaughter, and refuse to condone a known aspect that contributes to a higher death toll which has a notable percentage of little children, and speak out against free acces to deadly weapons you would go buy a gun just to thwart that voice would you? 

I have to say I find that self defeating and childish. That's is a very disappointing and fruitless attitude. I'm not sure what you feel you would achieve with your proposed actions. 

On 5/25/2018 at 8:57 PM, skliss said:

I think you make us all less safe

Can you state exactly how that is? Why is expressing an opinion from a country that made regulation work, and being stunned by the ever rising death count making you less safe? What's the correlation there? 

On 5/25/2018 at 8:57 PM, skliss said:

And you constantly talk as if we have no gun regulations...we have reams and reams of regulations..they just need better enforced.

How can you not realise that's exactly what I'm saying? Only one regulation is needed, and that's one that works. With divided states all doing their own thing such regulations can never work. You cross the border and skirt the law. What's in place is obviously not working, and I don't understand your heavy resistance to bettering that system. 

On 5/25/2018 at 8:57 PM, skliss said:

That doesn't mean handing our personal safety, and guns, over to someone else...who doesn't have the same level of caring or love for my family as I do.

No, that's not what gun regulation is, not what happened where it works and not what's being suggested. If people prove their need for a weapon and prove responsibility, they remain untouched, how regulation works is people without a good reason, like crime, can't apply for a weapon which is helping the police identify who should not be armed, and making access to weapons more difficult for criminals, how that is such an apppalling thing to suggest I have no idea. 

[psyche101]

On 5/25/2018 at 9:15 PM, Myles said:

They took a big leap going from Facebook threats to actually busting through a door wearing masks and armed.  

The group stated they didn't know one of them was armed and the weapon  was found on the doorstep. 

But that my point. Where people are not so complacent with weapons these things don't get to these levels. This is not the first time kids have elevated Facebook fights to life and death situations in the states. That's just a ridiculous attitude to bring a gun to a Facebook fight. It would not enter the heads of people where gun ownership is not seen as a birthright and heavily encouraged 

[psyche101]

On 5/26/2018 at 3:18 AM, Alaric said:

If you do any research on rape whatsoever, you will find that it is often said that it is not a crime of sex, but of power. What better way to obliterate the perceived manhood of rival gang members?

I’d say that male on male sexual assault is probably more common than generally thought in these type of situations, but severely underreported... the victims themselves would not speak up, for obvious reasons.

And what reason is there to consider that was a possibility with regards to the incident in the op? 

[skliss]

1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

the gun brought to the science was found at the front door so nobody got inside with a gun that the entire party of young people state they didn't know was there

But the people in the house didn't know that, for all they knew the crazy people breaking into their house, with intent to harm, could have all been armed. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say. My family means enough to me that I wouldnt be willing ti take that chance.

 

1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

Then you would have reported the Facebook threats to police if you thought any real altercation might arise would you not? 

If I thought they would take a Facebook threat seriuosly....And what are they gonna do, if they even believed it, sit outside my house for a week?

1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

I live where gun control stopped public slaughter,

You assume it does...unless you have a crystal ball you don't know for sure.

1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

Can you state exactly how that is?

Because you blindly believe that someone else will keep you safe and you insist that I believe that too to the point you would remove my best chance at safety against my will.

1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

Only one regulation is needed

In your opinion.....despite any and all evidence to the contrary..if anyone here is a zealot it's you.

 

1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

If people prove their need for a weapon

And who gets to make that arbitrary decision? People like you? No Thanks! I shouldn't HAVE to explain to some government flunkey, who doesn't know me or my family, any of my wants or needs. As long as I meet existing criteria it's none of their darn business.  Nothing I do is....private citizen means private.....

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, skliss said:

But the people in the house didn't know that, for all they knew the crazy people breaking into their house, with intent to harm, could have all been armed.

They woke to yelling outside the residence. As they were currently embroiled in a social media dispute with neighbouring people I'd say there's every chance they knew who it was and why they were there. 

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Hindsight is 20/20 as they say.

Indeed, for instance, if some teenager was doing something stupid, like stealing a PlayStation and you just heard a noise, reacted to the kill or be killed mentality that gun culture breeds and killed a kid for doing something dumb, would you be able to live with yourself? 

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My family means enough to me that I wouldnt be willing ti take that chance.

I'm this case one family is now less one child who loved turtles and cajun seafood and wasnt the one carrying a gun. One perceived threat was carries out and resulted in death. That's a sad story, not one of defenders saving lives 

A family lost a child over a Facebook fight, that's not getting through is it. 

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If I thought they would take a Facebook threat seriuosly....And what are they gonna do, if they even believed it, sit outside my house for a week?

No, they should go and, address the altercation just like they would a threatening phone call. 

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You assume it does...unless you have a crystal ball you don't know for sure.

Are you for real? 

You can't be serious. You think that it's a coincidence that public killing which were happening at the, rate of one a year leading up to the port Arthur massacre stopped when regulation was introduced??? You would suggest 22 years of sheer luck would you? 

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Because you blindly believe that someone else will keep you safe and you insist that I believe that too to the point you would remove my best chance at safety against my will.

No, regulation helps everyone and makes, weapons much harder for criminals to access. 

And you do what you want, it's just as obvious, as regulation ending mass public slaughter here is as obvious that gun culture is enabling criminals and murderers there. 

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In your opinion.....despite any and all evidence to the contrary..if anyone here is a zealot it's you.

My opinion  has nothing to do with the success of regulation in countries that have embraced it to their benefit. 

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And who gets to make that arbitrary decision? People like you? No Thanks! I shouldn't HAVE to explain to some government flunkey, who doesn't know me or my family, any of my wants or needs. As long as I meet existing criteria it's none of their darn business.  Nothing I do is....private citizen means private.....

No, the people who would be controlling the regulation would be people like you, as scary as that thought is considering the logic you have displayed to date in this thread. It's up to you the end result works, but implementation would have to be a solution unique to America, other approaches won't work because they are not the states, don't have dozens of states that have to all comply to make it work and the demographic of the country itself. 

You might be responsible with the storage and use of a deadly weapon, or you might be another crazy ready to shoot up a school. Assurances on the Internet aren't worth much. Heck for all you know I could live in the states and be trying to make myself look anti gun to throw suspicion off. Point is that's something you can't know, and shootings happen directly because of the perceived threat of home invasion that has been proven to not be a threat where regulation has been introduced. 

[+Hammerclaw]

https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2016/03/28/defend-home-intruder-australia_n_9559346.html

[aztek]

He was robbing a restaurant, cops say. A drive-thru customer shot him through window 

The incident happened at 12:43 a.m., when a masked man entered the Cozy Corner Drive-In, holding a black revolver and demanding money,  A man in the drive-thru line saw the robbery in progress and fired shots at the robber, shattering the drive-thru window.The shooter didn’t stick around, instead speeding off in a silver sedan, according to NBC and the Register.Claborn told the Register that the shooter is wanted by police on suspicion of assault with a deadly weapon. No suspect description is available for the shooter. No other injuries were reported in the shooting.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article212032429.html

[AnchorSteam]

Heh heh heh, looks like my points have carried the day.

 

But just to finish it off, this man made one hell of a good argument, in just seven minutes!

 

 

[Dark_Grey]

Meanwhile, in the Communist Republic of Europe

Knives are too sharp and filing them down is solution to soaring violent crime, UK Judge says
Telegraph

British Man Arrested For Wielding Potato Peeler In Public
DailyCaller

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“A court will decide if you’ve got a good reason to carry a knife or a weapon if you’re charged with carrying it illegally,” the UK government states on its website.

In America, the "right to bear arms" is a right granted to every citizen. Over seas, the Government will decide if you are allowed to defend yourself and your property. Right down to kitchen utensils.

Let them laugh at our love for guns: I'm done apologizing and justifying. We can deal with School shooters but can you guys deal with tyranny and oppression? How long until only plastic knives are sold in the UK? Yeesh.

[aztek]

35 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

 

In America, the "right to bear arms" is a right granted to every citizen.

in reality it is  only on paper, ny police found a new way to bite off that right bit by bit, when your gun license expires, you fill out renewal form, but you do not get issued new license, in the system your expired license is still active, but without valid physical license you can't buy or sell any gun.

[skliss]

15 hours ago, psyche101 said:

why they were there

Yes...to harm the people in the house...

 

15 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Indeed, for instance, if some teenager was doing something stupid, like stealing a PlayStation and you just heard a noise, reacted to the kill or be killed mentality that gun culture breeds and killed a kid for doing something dumb, would you be able to live with yourself? 

This is not a fair comparison.....of course no one wants to kill over an xbox...that's not the situation at hand....in this scenario a bunch of people broke into a house threatening the family within...it amazes me that you continue to blame the victims. Do you say women who dress provocatively were "asking for it" too...? See...unfair comparison...

 

15 hours ago, psyche101 said:

A family lost a child over a Facebook fight, that's not getting through is it

Which is horrible and sad....but if the child had stayed home and not gone to someone's house intending to harm them and their family he'd still be alive. That's not getting thru, is it?

15 hours ago, psyche101 said:

You would suggest 22 years of sheer luck would you? 

I'm doubting that nothing happened in the past 22 years, yes.

15 hours ago, psyche101 said:

No, regulation helps everyone and makes, weapons much harder for criminals to access

I don't believe that...I think it makes it harder for law abiding citizens.

 

15 hours ago, psyche101 said:

perceived threat of home invasion

Home invasion is not a "perceived threat" it IS a threat.

[aztek]

i'd say home invasion is clear and present danger, taking an invader out not only saves your life, but possibly lives of those  whose houses he would brake into latter

Edited May 28, 2018 by aztek

[Myles]

21 minutes ago, aztek said:

i'd say home invasion is clear and present danger, taking an invader out not only saves your life, but possibly lives of those  whose houses he would brake into latter

I agree.   When a group of masked people breaks through your families door, it is a good option to shoot them.   

[aztek]

masked or not, you brake into my home, i wont give you a chance hurting me or my family, i do not care what your intentions are, you showed me they are not good by braking into my house,

Edited May 28, 2018 by aztek

[psyche101]

On 5/26/2018 at 3:47 PM, AnchorSteam said:

Prove it.

You're in the same thread. Seriously, you forgot that or something? It's a matter of using the previous button at the bottom of the page. 

You're a very strange individual indeed asking a thing like that. 

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And you have made personal insults to me at least half a dozen times in this thread.

No, I'm refuting the claims made and the representation of them, I wouldn't know you if I fell over you in the street, nor would I want to. I have not found you to be a particularly pleasent discussion to be honest. 

An insult is........ 

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I have not been keeping an exact count because it is petty and meaningless, but when you sit on your High Horse you should know that its really just a Rocking Horse. 

..... Like that. Just an ad hom unrelated to the discussion material. 

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BTW- you keep trying to make Facebook the critical point here, but unless you can point a gun at this screen and shoot me through the internet, it means nothing.

That's ridiculous. I bet it means a heck of a lot to Corey Lauramore's family when they had to bury him over a Facebook fight. 

That's who your thread is titled on. That kids death and your presentation of that unfortunate incident. 

Remember? 

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Oh.... are you saying that strong arguments on line should be illegal now?

Yes of course, this is not the first Facebook fight to turn into a life and death situation, kids have been bullied into suicide. 

You don't think social Media requires  close look at those tragic incidents, and a decent overhaul? 

Somoene always seems to be compelled to ruin it for everyone. I see it as punishment to have to be subjected to idiots like that. 

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Seems like censorship is heading that way. 

You would think kids dying is better than some censorship just like having  weapon in the home is a fair trade for school shootings? 

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Here is a free clue for you; nobody had even heard of Obama in 1996.

Honestly, that's not even 22 years ago, does nothing that happened in any other century exist for you?

Yes, I don't live in the past, I recognise it. Did you read your own link? It's about Obama using the gun regulation laws here as an example over there. And that the solution we used would not work in the US. 

Well DUH.

Its not the implementation that's the main point, it's the result. The gun nuts who write such articles are either too stupid to pick up on that, or they use it to flame the situation in their favour. We don't have Mexico supplying arms to Australia, that's a whole different problem to deal with right there before anything could work. 

Then there's the mental health issues Gunn brought up. There's no one fix it all solution, obviously it would take a great think tank to come up with a working solution if it was welcomed. 

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And on and on he goes....

Just because you don't understand my point does not make it invalid.

You had a point?

You don't seem to be focused on any one issue except arguing with me. 

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What difference does that make? Are Rural areas beneath consideration?

Farmers demonstrate genuine need for weapons due to lifestyle. Just like the US  I would imagine. Protecting stock from predators, keeping crops safe from unwanted grazer and controlling feral animals and vermin. 

So they are an Australian community that retains weapons. 

And that's where these incidents happen, I pointed out its not the first family to hit financial crisis and take that action. And its the only community here entrusted with deadly weapons. Not seeing it happen in the communities without weapons though. 

 

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The threat in the poster speaks for itself.

How does that not provide clear correlation between weapons and misuse of them resulting in needless death?

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Well, if it is happening on a "regular" basis, then tell us when the next one will be.

I'd guess before the end of the year based on the lest ten years of frequencies. 

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You know, will it be 3 days, 5 days, 2 weeks, 2 months?

That is what the word Regular means, after all. If it is so regular, then it should be easy for you to say so. 

Wanna guess when it's going to happen here next? 

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Once again, we have ten times as many people.

We didn't drop to one tenth the public killlings, it stopped. 

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Where the hell is your sense of proportion, anyway? Can your political beliefs stand to have on, or what?

Political briefs? 

What are you referring to in particular and how does it relate to my opinion on your alleged example of guns saving lives?

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It is getting pretty laughable, to tell the truth. That is why I keep coming back, its worth a good giggle every time.

Really really? 

You seem mad bro. 

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Now.... we have had one mass shooting in a theater. Lets see, one tenth of one is not much over the course of the last 20 years.... I guess if you have one over the course of 2 centuries you will have caught up with us.

Unless there has been one in AUstralia since 1818, so there goes that.

You really think it's gone from an annual event to none in 22 years (mass public) by sheer chance? 

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"No children go to school here and get killed for that".... killed for what, exactly? 

The abused right of encouraged easy access to deadly weapons as a part of everyday life resulting in complacency, both with weapons in general and acceptance of the public events. 

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Because all of that came into question when you said that an armed populace cannot stand against the arms of a modern Government.

And you would be wrong about that, as I hinted earlier when I mentioned Vietnam. 

The reference didn't register, did it?

Its okay, most other folks got it. 

If your referring to the vier cong then your comparing wet dense jungles with concrete cities and open plains. Irrelevant. A government rogue enough to take out its own also won't worry about their own and I'm sure your history books have plenty examples of that up to modern times too. It's not 1970 either. It's a tech game that would be over in a matter of hours. 

Your kidding yourself. 

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The fact remains that you are blaming every Legal gun owner for every crime committed by any and all armed criminals....

No, many responsible owners won't have a problem and know they can find good reason and demonstrate responsibility. It's the loud minority refusing to improve current models that are keeping deadly weapons readily available and cheap, thereby creating the very problem they state to be a reason to encourage people to own deadly weapons. It's a self feeding circle waving a false flag of freedom as a mascot. 

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curious, since you just lectured ME about blaming Islam (an ideology, not a race)

That's why I said bigot, not racist. 

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for the ideological terror committed by a few radicals.

That is not very consistent on your part, is it?

Of course it is, are all the people who choose Islam as a way of life protesting that its their brothers and sisters right to demonstrate their faith by terrorist acts based on verses of the Koran? Of course not. 

The majority of gun owners must be responsible or the streets would  littered with bodies according to the gun to person ratio. All regulation does is thin the number of guns in circulation and make sure those doing the right thing keep doing the right thing. If your serious about this militia fantasy, wouldn't you want some sort of criteria as to who you really want at your side in a crisis situation? 

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It is called Trolling.

That's an ad hom. 

See we are both learning! 

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Oh, and BTW; your "jokes" are like everything else that comes from the Left; petty, mean and slanted to favor Leftists.

Probably a bit high brow for you. I'll try and aim lower to accommodate you. 

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You are assuming that we don't, and that is not true. We take gun safety very seriously here, don't they do that in Australia at all?

Do what? 

I'm sure many people do act responsibly. It's just not enough is all because it's not working. The cost of collateral is too high. Encouraging what is essentially vigilante behaviour is giving greater advantages to the criminal element and mentally unwell creating a very real threat to the public. 

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And here, I thought we were talking about military intervention.

Oh yeah, we were.  

It is called an armory. Okay, it would take a couple of dozen of them, one for every military base in your country, and there is nothing the military could legally do about it. 

People here own guns at their homes and I would imagine many military people would be among those people. 

Its regulation. Not a ban. 

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Once again, refusing to look at any evidence whatsoever that might contradict your opinion will cripple your case.

What evidence? Random YouTube clips from around the world? Myocal d I exes do a good job, they have given lives in the line of duty, I've got nothing to complain about. They come good on their word to the community and they contribute to it. I reckon they do a great job around here and a few bad eggs doesn't spoil the good efforts of the many. 

And I don't have a case. I'm stating that gun culture breeds a complacency elevating ordinary incidents like the one you posted in the OP to life and death situations, which is why I nieve or would be a good idea to consider the success regulation has had in other countries and see if that success can be applied to the current American way ofife for a safer community. In particular focusing on ending school killings. 

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It was a study that had to be cut short because ordinary people given both power and anonymity were shown to be frighteningly abusive, brutal, even.... a warning to us all.

.... as if Auschwitz wasn't enough. 

Like a 'great equaliser' perhaps? 

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Seeing is believing -

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=police+abuse+of+power+2018

Nothing to do with the discussion or the situation. There is some bad eggs, you say you won't give up weapons for the minority who are irresponsible with guns but you will hang every police man on earth for the few bad eggs. That seems very hypocritical to me. 

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Oh be still my heart! 

Specifically, what law made by the, what article in the Bill of Rights, is negated by technology?

I'd like to know what was written by them, what section of our Constitution, was made obsolete by Drones.

The idea of a efficient militia. Its an old precaution that is redundant in todays world where such measures are well superseded by current technology. Its pure fantasy thinking you would have any effect on a rogue government by keeping a gun in your home. 

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And Religious terrorism was unknown to the world of the 1700s?   Seriously, is that your final answer?  Might wanna reconsider that,

Wheres does your constitution outline it as a real threat, like your outdated government overthrow fantasy? Rogue governments are implied there but I don't see religious conflict noted at all  so why would your founding fathers take that into account, and what indicated such? 

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Hey, it happened in our glorious enlightened age, something you have been saying is not possible.

In a third world country run by dictators, what rules do apply? 

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Your change of direction, dragging in 3rd world countries as a distraction. I find this childish and pointless. All your telling me here is you got nothing so your dodging the point of the discussion. Sad really. 

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So.... now you are saying that no defeated despots killed themselves in the 1700s because they were afraid to face the penalties of their actions?

I'm am very suspicious of your knowledge of anything at all that happened prior to your date of birth. Serious as a heart-attack here, you really need to start looking into all that.

Might wanna start with the French Revolution. 

You might want to recognise that it's the year 2018 and you don't need a musket to protect your country anymore. I wonder more so if you are aware of anything that has happened in the last 50 years. History is intersteing, lots of people learn from it, including the people who you think are so stupid they will repeat old mistakes and utilise ancient strategies. Seriously, how stupid do you think governments are, you think you have the drop on entire modern armed forces because you have read some history? I can see why you support an outdated and dangerous culture, modern thinking just seems to be beyond your capabilities. 

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Regulation and the penalties attached are indeed a punishment when you suddenly rule somebody's property illegal, property that may have been in the family for generations. 

No, collectors are exempt. Your just being both fecetious and silly now. 

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Yeah, we know, "its all for the greater good" or "safety". Well, learn about the country you telling to change to suit yourself, read some of the posts made by other people here. Learn about our situation first.

Like the headlines that just keep rolling in such as the recent Texas school.or how about this one? 

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/03/02/us/school-shootings-2018-list-trnd/index.html

Yeah I'm learning alright, it's disheartening to learn about how little thought is given to the community over perceived threats that never come to be and who the victims of such lax approaches to deadly weapons are. The fear of having to illustrate responsibility is truly frightening. 

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How can you keep retreating to Queensland when confronted with the True crime statistics for Australia?

Because its where I live. Australia has fences longer than the US is wide. I don't think you comprehend this great country at all. 

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People can read, you know, and have longer memories than you seem to admit to having. 

So can I, but how does that relate the the fact that any US state who tried to better life by introducing gun control are let down by neighbouring states who refuse to move past a wild west mentality? 

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Its very simple, try reading what you post before hitting that little button first next time.

That won't help that fact you articulate yourself poorly. 

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And speaking of Bigotry, towards the beginning of this thread you attempted to blame the stats on violent crime in Australia on immigrants.

Tsk... not very Liberal of you, was it?

Yes it was, nothing wrong with what I stated, you seem to be rather slow on this front too. Its a cultural issue for sure. People who come from torn places where death and weapons are a way of life take time to assimilate to a paradise like this where such atrocities are no more than news headlines. That's not bigoted, its a fact. Different cultures clash often. 

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And there is THE CRITICAL FACT -

 

I mentioned this before, and you dismissed it by saying you didn't believe it.

Now here it is, backed by the utterly trustworthy Govt that you are telling us to bet our future existence on.

Any thoughts on THIS?

Or does willful ignorance guide the anti-gun gang in all cases like this?

I've commented on it before. Your just not very attentive. 

The situation is created by guns, so you control it with more and bigger guns. Self defeating and astounding that very simple point continues to evade you. You create your own problems and when you control them things get out of hand, innocents die, and criminals have easier access to more deadly weapons. 

5 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

Heh heh heh, looks like my points have carried the day.

No you overestimate yourself tremendously. Your just long winded but say nothing. 

5 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

 

Till the next public shooting takes innocent lives for pride. 

[psyche101]

5 hours ago, skliss said:

Yes...to harm the people in the house...

So you have information indicating this wasnt an intimidation tactic and know exactly what the Facebook threats were? 

Can you post them with a supporting link please 

That nobody knew one of the group had a weapon seems to indicate otherwise. 

5 hours ago, skliss said:

This is not a fair comparison.....of course no one wants to kill over an xbox...that's not the situation at hand....

Why is it not a fair comparison? Its kids being kids doing stupid things. I've asked this very question of others who support weapons and they stated that they would live with it just fine knowing they were reacting to a perceived threat, is this what you aspire to become as well? 

5 hours ago, skliss said:

in this scenario a bunch of people broke into a house threatening the family within...it amazes me that you continue to blame the victims.

What family? 

There were two men in their 20s at the residence. They got of dozens of rounds. Not exactly scrambling at the gun cupboard were they? How is that not suspicious? We don't know who even started the fight. They could have goaded these gullible kids in to kill them on purpose for all you know. 

5 hours ago, skliss said:

Do you say women who dress provocatively were "asking for it" too...? See...unfair comparison...

No I don't see the comparison  I see a straw grab that's irrelevant. Women wearing what they want doesn't put others in mortal danger. If men can't control themselves, they ruin the reputation of many, just like people who can't act sensibly with a deadly weapon ruin it for those who do act responsibly. We all pay for those elements of society. It's up to the individual to evaluate if their need is above the needs of the many who will suffer when that element of society acts. If we don't act first by disarming them, more innocent people die. 

5 hours ago, skliss said:

Which is horrible and sad....but if the child had stayed home and not gone to someone's house intending to harm them and their family he'd still be alive. That's not getting thru, is it?

Yes it is the bloody point. 

Gun culture breeds complacency which results in incidents like this getting out of hand. I've said many times if this facebook fight happened in a country with gun regulation, that complacency would not be there, guns would not have been involved and nobody would have been shot or killed. Had Corey Lauramore lived in a country with gun regulation and a sensible approach to deadly weapons, he would be alive today. 

5 hours ago, skliss said:

I'm doubting that nothing happened in the past 22 years, yes.

There are always isolated incidents. We had a public incident every year lesding up to the most horrendous mass public killing in our history, regulation was introduced and it hasn't happened since. If you can't see that benefit to the community then it's deliberate and your just geing stubborn. 

5 hours ago, skliss said:

I don't believe that...I think it makes it harder for law abiding citizens.

Then explain this to me

Why does a criminal want a gun? For crime. Why does a home owner want a gun? Defense, how is that not an advantage to the criminal who will act first in this situation? 

And

How does forcing guns to a black market where they become unaffordable not hinder their criminal activities ? 

And 

How is it not a huge advantage to police to know who has registered their weapon for a genuine purpose over those who have nefarious purposes in mind? 

How does that help the criminal and disadvantage the home owner? 

5 hours ago, skliss said:

Home invasion is not a "perceived threat" it IS a threat.

Its not considered a good reason to own a deadly weapon in countries with gun regulation

And that's because its not. Once the criminals are disarmed they are gutless scum and back off. Its only a threat in the US because of the lax approach to the ownership of deadly weapons by the individual. 

[aztek]

well it is considered so in usa, god bless usa.

[AnchorSteam]

3 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Once the criminals are disarmed they are gutless scum and back off. Its only a threat in the US because of the lax approach to the ownership of deadly weapons by the individual. 

I think I see the problem here....

And it has been happening over and over  and over 

[AnchorSteam]

And there is certain set of facts (strangely enough) that may be influencing and the view from Australian.

Apparently, Australia is an incredibly violent and brutal place. I have seen lots of vids like this from Russia, and other places, but nothing holds a candle to the level of viciousness and Rage that I see in this clip. 

Honestly, have a look, those people are out of their freaking minds!!

 

 

 

So, I guess we know where certain people are coming from now.

 

(yeah, sure, post some for America, nothing even comes close  )