Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
AnchorSteam

Home invasion repelled with guns

367 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

aztek

actually social media is responsible for quite a few of attacks, fatal and not, yet i do not see  groups protesting against easy access to social sites.

no one does die -in or protesting at facebook or craiglist HQ

 

die-in as what hoggs did at supermarket, not actually dying.  another stupid idea brought to you by liberals

Edited by aztek
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alaric
2 minutes ago, Myles said:

Good post.  

It's a big world and it takes all kinds.   I do not consider myself a bad person for feeling as I do.  If a group of masked men violently broke into my home, I would not wait to see if they would leave my family alone.   I would grab my gun, shout a warning and not hesitate to fire if they did not immediately run out of the house.   I don't care if it was someone who I had argued with on social media.   If they were already heading towards my daughters, the warning may not even be a part of it.   

I’m with you 100% there. Home invasion is the one situation where deadly force is automatically authorized and warnings/ farks may not be given... especially in the case of multiple perpetrators... and like you, I have daughters too, I will be dead or useless before I let anybody get near them.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
aztek

same here, have 1,  one day she will get married, and i hope she is not a typical female, who falls for a wrong guy.  a father can wish

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alaric
5 minutes ago, aztek said:

actually social media is responsible for quite a few of attacks, fatal and not, yet i do not see  groups protesting against easy access to social sites.

no one does die in or protesting at facebook or craiglist HQ

Well... nobody died, but a couple got winged over at YouTube... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
psyche101
11 hours ago, aztek said:

you want to call it a mistake, ok it is a deadly mistake, just like jumping in from of a train, or off a building. natural selection.

I'd consider it more like stealing alcohol or taking a joy ride in someone's car, a dumb thing teens do,  but that's close enough for me to agree with you. 

11 hours ago, aztek said:

well ok, 2 men in their 20s  does not make much difference, their house was broken into by men in masks. they feared for their lives, and killed intruders. 

I just don't think they feared for their lives going by the narrative. 

11 hours ago, aztek said:

apparently there were not taught not to brake into someone's house.  they learned the hard way. let their death be a lesson for others, if you smart enough to learn from someone else's mistakes that is.

I just can't rationalise this act with death. It's just way over the top and anything but justice. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alaric
14 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I'd consider it more like stealing alcohol or taking a joy ride in someone's car, a dumb thing teens do,  but that's close enough for me to agree with you. 

I just don't think they feared for their lives going by the narrative. 

I just can't rationalise this act with death. It's just way over the top and anything but justice. 

Myself and a few others concur that a home invasion by armed and masked perpetrators would be one of the situations that would automatically warrant the use of lethal force. You don’t agree... OK, it is what it is. Just curious, are there situations... if any, in your opinion... that would warrant a lethal response or the removal of the restrictions on the use of lethal force on your part?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
psyche101
9 hours ago, Myles said:

Doesn't matter.   Being masked means they were going to do something  bad enough that they did not want to be identified.

I'd say it had more to do with the fact they were masquerading as police. It strikes me that they were there to intimidate. 

9 hours ago, Myles said:

It only takes 1 gun

 

The only person who knew a gun had been brought along was the person who brought it. Obviously the group didn't expect this to turn into a life and death situation. Complacency with deadly weapons is what I assume prompted that one fellow to bring one and that's where gun culture fails. 

9 hours ago, Myles said:

Doesn't matter.   He was part of a group who violently broke into a persons home.

It does matter because it gives us clues as to what really happened. There was a lot of blood on the from step - how do you know he got in? The killers said they heard yelling outside and opened fire when the door was forced. They would have known who it was and what it was about, yet they riddled the dead kid with bullets before the situation could be assessed, which makes me think they may well have killed without due cause. 

9 hours ago, Myles said:

Yes it is, in this case.   It is sad, but it wouldn't have happened if a violent break in did not take place.

I honestly wonder if your own child had died making a silly mistake if you would be of the same opinion, I can't agree with that, such little respect for life I find appalling. 

It would also not have happened without the complacency gun culture puts on deadly weapons. This would not escalate to a life and death situation where gun control has been introduced. Its a needless death. 

9 hours ago, Myles said:

Why are you stretching it like that?   That should be beneath you.

Its not stretching at all. It's putting the situation into perspective. This is not a brave story of defenders guarding an innocent family against violent intruders, its a Facebook fight that the older participants ended with death. It's a disgrace and a black mark on gun culture. 

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
psyche101
5 minutes ago, Alaric said:

Myself and a few others concur that a home invasion by armed and masked perpetrators would be one of the situations that would automatically warrant the use of lethal force. You don’t agree... OK, it is what it is. Just curious, are there situations... if any, in your opinion... that would warrant a lethal response or the removal of the restrictions on the use of lethal force on your part?

In the states? Other places without gun culture are different because the threat of guns is removed. 

Due to the ease of access to weapons  if a father defended his family against violent intruders and had given warning l, then there seems to be no other option. 

Something like this perhaps:

https://www.louderwithcrowder.com/father-saves-family-shooting-home-intruder/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
psyche101
5 hours ago, aztek said:

i realize maybe in Australia crime is a lot lower, people are alot less violent, and maybe i can see why he does not think braking in is not such a big deal, especially if he lives in the middle of nowhere, but here things are very different.

 

I'm on the gold Coast, a well populated part of the East Coast. I grew up on a farm out west though. The only place I saw and handled guns in my life. 

Its not such a big deal here because regulation removed weapons from criminals, and allowed people who demonstrate responsibility to own them, putting the balance where it should be. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
psyche101
4 hours ago, Alaric said:

Well, maybe in the old days there would have been a bit of a tussle... then a few black eyes and some swollen lips would have been handed out... but the only thing being killed would have been a couple of rounds in the bar after.

That's how it still is where regulation is accepted and introduced. That's my main point here. 

4 hours ago, Alaric said:

These whippersnappers and their social media... wannabe tough boys pull out their gat, talk some smack... and suffer the consequences...

All teens do dumb things, death is just too high a price to pay, and I feel this should be an incident that puts gun culture under the microscope, praising it for this deadly altercation is just grizzly and twisted. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
psyche101
4 hours ago, Myles said:

Good post.  

It's a big world and it takes all kinds.   I do not consider myself a bad person for feeling as I do.  If a group of masked men violently broke into my home, I would not wait to see if they would leave my family alone.   I would grab my gun, shout a warning and not hesitate to fire if they did not immediately run out of the house.   I don't care if it was someone who I had argued with on social media.   If they were already heading towards my daughters, the warning may not even be a part of it.   

This was not a family, it was a couple of blokes in their 20s whose involvement has been ignored altogether. 

And they would have known what it was about, they probably even knew the kids were going to show up. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
psyche101
4 hours ago, aztek said:

actually social media is responsible for quite a few of attacks, fatal and not, yet i do not see  groups protesting against easy access to social sites.

no one does die -in or protesting at facebook or craiglist HQ

 

die-in as what hoggs did at supermarket, not actually dying.  another stupid idea brought to you by liberals

I've stated several time in this thread that social media is a serous problem, that this isn't the first Facebook fight to end with dead kids and that it's defiantly part of the problem. I've stated I really think that entire situation requires a major investigation and overhaul. 

The poster who started the thread started banging on about the government and big brother. Paranoia at its finest. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
psyche101
4 hours ago, Alaric said:

I’m with you 100% there. Home invasion is the one situation where deadly force is automatically authorized and warnings/ farks may not be given... especially in the case of multiple perpetrators... and like you, I have daughters too, I will be dead or useless before I let anybody get near them.

I have a teen daughter and a son. Because we have regulation, I'm not particularly fearful or expectant of home Invasion, and feel confident even at my age of protecting them. 

I've taught my daughter to box since she was nine. I pity the fool who tries to lay a hand on her, she has a solid hook. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
psyche101
4 hours ago, aztek said:

same here, have 1,  one day she will get married, and i hope she is not a typical female, who falls for a wrong guy.  a father can wish

There's a funny ad on the telly here or there used to be 

A daughters boyfriend rolls up on a loud bike long beard looking mean

Dad spots him through the window and thinks quickly 

He answers the door very friendly inviting the fellow in 

Naked 

The boyfriend takes off all weirded out never to return 

:lol:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alaric
1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

In the states? Other places without gun culture are different because the threat of guns is removed. 

Due to the ease of access to weapons  if a father defended his family against violent intruders and had given warning l, then there seems to be no other option. 

Something like this perhaps:

https://www.louderwithcrowder.com/father-saves-family-shooting-home-intruder/

In Australia, in the specific place where you live... what would be your personal standard?

Multiple masked and armed men have broken down your door and are coming through at this very moment... your family is present in other parts of the house. Maybe they’re there because you have some nice stuff and they want it, maybe they’ve seen your daughter and think she’s pretty and would like to get to know her better, or maybe it’s mistaken identity and they’ve got you mixed up with the dealer next door (and they won’t  be happy to take “no” for an answer when you tell them you don’t have any money OR drugs)... you’ve got no idea. You have only whatever weapons you normally would have present, what do you do?

If you had a firearm, you might actually have the luxury of pointing the gun at them and asking them to stop... but if you only had a kitchen knife or a bat or some such, your only hope is to catch the 1st one entirely by surprise and attack without hesitation or mercy and immediately pivot to the 2nd one and hope you can get to the 3rd or 4th one before they do enough damage to take you out.

Long, long ago in a land far, far away... I was offered a pro fight on Manny Pacquiao’s undercard... I have no illusions about my boxing ability being able to get me out of trouble with multiple armed attackers. A smaller, weaker person using Jujitsu in a one on one situation might be able to prevail against an unarmed or unskilled attacker... maybe if they were real good and kept their head, but they’d still come out with some bumps... the only reliable means of self defense for a physically disadvantaged person to come out unscathed in these situations is a firearm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alaric
13 minutes ago, Alaric said:

Multiple masked and armed men have broken down your door and are coming through at this very moment... your family is present in other parts of the house. Maybe they’re there because you have some nice stuff and they want it, maybe they’ve seen your daughter and think she’s pretty and would like to get to know her better, or maybe it’s mistaken identity and they’ve got you mixed up with the dealer next door (and they won’t  be happy to take “no” for an answer when you tell them you don’t have any money OR drugs)... you’ve got no idea. You have only whatever weapons you normally would have present, what do you do?

I think this is a serious question that I, as the “man of the house”, should have an answer to and a plan in place to address. I’ve never been in a place that burned down, but have carried plenty of fire insurance and had plenty fire extinguishers handy just in case...

Full disclosure... I grew up in the Philippines, where home-invasion-murder-kill-sprees were entirely too common... so I may be a bit biased (not paranoid if they really are out to get ya) on the subject. The Philippines also has full gun control and a fully out of control gun violence problem... so there’s that...

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
psyche101
34 minutes ago, Alaric said:

In Australia, in the specific place where you live... what would be your personal standard?

Multiple masked and armed men have broken down your door and are coming through at this very moment... your family is present in other parts of the house. Maybe they’re there because you have some nice stuff and they want it, maybe they’ve seen your daughter and think she’s pretty and would like to get to know her better, or maybe it’s mistaken identity and they’ve got you mixed up with the dealer next door (and they won’t  be happy to take “no” for an answer when you tell them you don’t have any money OR drugs)... you’ve got no idea. You have only whatever weapons you normally would have present, what do you do?

If you had a firearm, you might actually have the luxury of pointing the gun at them and asking them to stop... but if you only had a kitchen knife or a bat or some such, your only hope is to catch the 1st one entirely by surprise and attack without hesitation or mercy and immediately pivot to the 2nd one and hope you can get to the 3rd or 4th one before they do enough damage to take you out.

Long, long ago in a land far, far away... I was offered a pro fight on Manny Pacquiao’s undercard... I have no illusions about my boxing ability being able to get me out of trouble with multiple armed attackers. A smaller, weaker person using Jujitsu in a one on one situation might be able to prevail against an unarmed or unskilled attacker... maybe if they were real good and kept their head, but they’d still come out with some bumps... the only reliable means of self defense for a physically disadvantaged person to come out unscathed in these situations is a firearm.

There's no way of saying untill the situation would arrive. I've only once in my life had a stranger enter the house and ask for money, I told my girlfriend at the time to take the back door and call police, in the meantime I reached for a stashed sword as I was studying for it at the time and the assailant ran for his life with me chasing him down the street. I only went a couple of houses and returned in case he was not alone. And being in my home I had an advantage in the I knew the layout and where to grab what I might need in an altercation. But overconfidence tends to be a disadvantage the perpetrator I find in situations like that. 

9 minutes ago, Alaric said:

I think this is a serious question that I, as the “man of the house”, should have an answer to and a plan in place to address. I’ve never been in a place that burned down, but have carried plenty of fire insurance and had plenty fire extinguishers handy just in case...

Full disclosure... I grew up in the Philippines, where home-invasion-murder-kill-sprees were entirely too common... so I may be a bit biased (not paranoid if they really are out to get ya) on the subject. The Philippines also has full gun control and a fully out of control gun violence problem... so there’s that...

We dont have such violence though because criminals here don't have guns. That's why I just don't buy the claim that regulation removes weapons from good people and leaves them with bad people. The opposite happens and the price of a gun goes through the roof. A handgun here on the black market will cost between 12 and 16 thousand depending on the day. That's beyond the reach of petty criminals who enact such things as home invasions. I'm sure there are isolated incidents, but even then, there's normally a connection to drugs or other unconventional debts. I've not ever seen a situation like you have described here, in my area, nor do I know of any in my immediate vicinity, or amongst aquaintences. The only crimes I have head of involving guns in my immediate vicinity over the last ten years would be a policeman who was attempting to stop a break and enter at the local tavern, and 2 men who killed cheating wives, one of those deaths involved a gun and was in the middle of McDonald's the other a strangulation and dumped body. Although I guess I see, something of a correlation here as I have no pity for those victims just as nobody here sees the killing of these kids as, wrong. 

But as you mention the Philippines, look what happened when that madman running the country opened up the war on drugs pretty much deputising everyone and allowing open murder of drug dealers. It went to hell with people claiming retribution for anything and blaming it on drugs. Vigilantism doesn't work, it gets out of hand and communities are at the mercy of ies with guns. Its not a solution to just arm everyone, its proven that regulation makes it harder for criminals to enable themselves. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alaric
32 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

We dont have such violence though because criminals here don't have guns.

Man, I’m glad you live in such a great community. Not having guns never stopped anyone where I come from, they just got creative. Pieces of steel rebar (among other things) are sharpened and barbed into “Pana” or improvised slingshot darts... if they really don’t like you they’ll be soaked in sewer water for a double dose of infection... as certain a death sentence (and more painful) as a gunshot for many in a country where access to medical care can be spotty at best.

 

 

 

 

 

39BB3BCF-4E27-4D5A-BD55-21286463A675.jpeg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alaric
1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

But as you mention the Philippines, look what happened when that madman running the country opened up the war on drugs pretty much deputising everyone and allowing open murder of drug dealers. It went to hell with people claiming retribution for anything and blaming it on drugs

The Philippines has had full gun control since the Marcos era, when that guy set himself up as dictator, guess what one of his first acts was? Since that time, criminals (and those who would use guns in a criminal manner) have always had ready access to guns and gun violence has always been endemic... in spite of the strict laws in place. Filipinos make guns from scratch in their backyards using scrap metal... they’re quite good, so good they’re sometimes hard to tell from factory models. “VICE” has an episode on it that’s pretty interesting if you get the chance.

My best friend in high school was shot execution style in broad daylight in the middle of the street in one of the most affluent neighborhoods in Manila (he was the only one who lived)... the perpetrator was the son of a Supreme Court Justice, he carried a gun around and got away with it, despite the illegality, because he was a member of the protected class... gun ownership and use in the Philippines has been removed from the common folk and has instead become a fixture of the privileged few.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1991/08/07/murder-case-puts-focus-on-privilege-in-manila/42a4e4a0-8146-46b5-a5e0-2720e82d456c/?utm_term=.26eb135f0242

The Wapo article also talks about what came to be known as the “Vizconde Massacre”... that happened in the very same residential subdivision that I lived in, one of the all too common home-invasion-murder-kill-sprees I mentioned...

“In late June, Estrellita Vizconde, 47, and her two daughters were discovered bound and stabbed to death, apparently with an icepick, in their suburban Manila home. The elder daughter, Carmelita, 21, was raped, and the younger, Anne Marie, 7, was stabbed 18 times, investigators said. The case remains unsolved.”

The suspects in the case, later acquitted by the Supreme Court, were also members of the protected class. People always assumed it was criminal elements from outside the village... and were shocked to learn that it was the Congressman’s kid from down the street.

Speaking of the current situation there... funny, it seems to me that squads of armed men staffed with off duty police and military officers, performing extra judicial killings which are sanctioned by the madman currently running the country, would in fact be the perfect reason for and an appropriate application of an armed citizenry... but that’s just me.

And BTW, these type of killings are nothing new, Marcos just had the good sense to disappear his victims instead of leaving them in the street for all to see...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
aztek

i highly recommend cold steel shovel, if you learn how to throw it, it is only second to a gun, a true universal survival\defense tool

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
skliss

So two young guys, my son's are in their 20's, are alone in a house, terrified, while hostiles are running around outside and threatening them with mayhem.....And they don't shoot until their perimeter is breached, again for what hostile purpose, they don't know.  Sounds like they acted appropriately. I don't get blaming the victims for the actions of the intruders. I would tell my son's to protect themselves in whatever manner they could. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
skliss

So from the news story, the guy ran in masked and fired his gun:

"In stormed a masked gunman who fired off a single round before two of the men inside, one armed with an AR-15 rifle and the other with a handgun, emerged from two bedrooms and opened fire."

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alaric
18 hours ago, psyche101 said:

There's no way of saying untill the situation would arrive.

C’mon man... forgive me for saying, but I think this is a cop-out answer. You have stated that to use deadly force against armed and masked home invaders is the wrong answer, what then, is the right answer? How, realistically, without the use of deadly force, would you protect your family in that situation? It’s a fair question.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
psyche101
17 hours ago, Alaric said:

Man, I’m glad you live in such a great community.

Its like that pretty much everywhere I've been here. Everywhere has an exception to the rule, and there is places one would avoid due to cultural or financial structures shaping the local communities, but its pretty good for the larger majority. 

17 hours ago, Alaric said:

Not having guns never stopped anyone where I come from, they just got creative. Pieces of steel rebar (among other things) are sharpened and barbed into “Pana” or improvised slingshot darts... if they really don’t like you they’ll be soaked in sewer water for a double dose of infection... as certain a death sentence (and more painful) as a gunshot for many in a country where access to medical care can be spotty at best.

39BB3BCF-4E27-4D5A-BD55-21286463A675.jpeg

I just can't fathom why people would be so ruthless though, why are the people so barbaric? This is ISIS level barbarism, why are so many so violent in everyday life? What drives the community to behave like wild animals? 

I knew a Greek girl when I was younger and she married a guy from manila who had a very racist mindset, he simply hated all Aussies and only spoke to me because of my Russian heritage. What drives those to be so evil? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
psyche101
16 hours ago, Alaric said:

The Philippines has had full gun control since the Marcos era, when that guy set himself up as dictator, guess what one of his first acts was? Since that time, criminals (and those who would use guns in a criminal manner) have always had ready access to guns and gun violence has always been endemic... in spite of the strict laws in place. Filipinos make guns from scratch in their backyards using scrap metal... they’re quite good, so good they’re sometimes hard to tell from factory models. “VICE” has an episode on it that’s pretty interesting if you get the chance.

My best friend in high school was shot execution style in broad daylight in the middle of the street in one of the most affluent neighborhoods in Manila (he was the only one who lived)... the perpetrator was the son of a Supreme Court Justice, he carried a gun around and got away with it, despite the illegality, because he was a member of the protected class... gun ownership and use in the Philippines has been removed from the common folk and has instead become a fixture of the privileged few.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1991/08/07/murder-case-puts-focus-on-privilege-in-manila/42a4e4a0-8146-46b5-a5e0-2720e82d456c/?utm_term=.26eb135f0242

The Wapo article also talks about what came to be known as the “Vizconde Massacre”... that happened in the very same residential subdivision that I lived in, one of the all too common home-invasion-murder-kill-sprees I mentioned...

“In late June, Estrellita Vizconde, 47, and her two daughters were discovered bound and stabbed to death, apparently with an icepick, in their suburban Manila home. The elder daughter, Carmelita, 21, was raped, and the younger, Anne Marie, 7, was stabbed 18 times, investigators said. The case remains unsolved.”

The suspects in the case, later acquitted by the Supreme Court, were also members of the protected class. People always assumed it was criminal elements from outside the village... and were shocked to learn that it was the Congressman’s kid from down the street.

Speaking of the current situation there... funny, it seems to me that squads of armed men staffed with off duty police and military officers, performing extra judicial killings which are sanctioned by the madman currently running the country, would in fact be the perfect reason for and an appropriate application of an armed citizenry... but that’s just me.

But there is no gun control right now and in relation to these killing, from that same link:

Contributing to the problem is a vast quantity of unregistered firearms, an issue that a nascent gun-control movement is only beginning to address. Estimates of the number of these guns range from about 250,000 to 800,000, including the arsenals of Communist insurgents, military rebels and political warlords. Registered guns owned by private citizens account for another 400,000 firearms. With so many people armed, homicides are common, although reliable statistics are hard to come by.

Its more proving that a prevelance of guns leads to major disorder I would think. 

16 hours ago, Alaric said:

And BTW, these type of killings are nothing new, Marcos just had the good sense to disappear his victims instead of leaving them in the street for all to see...

I was actually referring to that mental case Rodrigo Duterte. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.