Home invasion repelled with guns

[F3SS]

I’m not diverting anything. Just putting my two cents in and it doesn’t have to resemble yours.

12 hours ago, psyche101 said:

*post removed*

I’m sure I could. I’m a gunless city boy, my truck isn’t old and jacked up high and I don’t own any camo gear. We also vote and our vote, like my two cents, doesn’t have to resemble yours. I disagree with some of your opinions but I respect them. It’s unfortunate we don’t get the same in return. Petty insults just keep the conversation dumbed down.

[Paranormal Panther]

19 hours ago, F3SS said:

The government.

The government.

 

Truly free in Au and U.K. is defending yourself with limited means as defined by the government.

We could follow the advice of British authorities. Curl into a ball. Beg and plead for mercy. Appeal to the better natures of psycho killers.

[psyche101]

46 minutes ago, F3SS said:

I’m not diverting anything. Just putting my two cents in and it doesn’t have to resemble yours.

Yes you are, your opinion of our government system is not at all related to this incident 

46 minutes ago, F3SS said:

I’m sure I could. I’m a gunless city boy, my truck isn’t old and jacked up high and I don’t own any camo gear. We also vote and our vote, like my two cents, doesn’t have to resemble yours. I disagree with some of your opinions but I respect them. It’s unfortunate we don’t get the same in return. Petty insults just keep the conversation dumbed down.

I can't see any of that, just how you represent yourself here. And saying we are government controlled is not respectful at all. You get what you give. That's how most of life rolls. 

[F3SS]

12 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Yes you are, your opinion of our government system is not at all related to this incident 

I can't see any of that, just how you represent yourself here. And saying we are government controlled is not respectful at all. You get what you give. That's how most of life rolls. 

I haven’t deflected anything. Since when am I shy about this topic? I’m just rolling with the conversation. You can deal with it.

I’m sure you can’t. You think we’re all a mixed version of Yosemite Sam and the hillbillies from Deliverance. You guys do give a lot of power to the state. They tell you what an acceptable means of defense is. I know you happily participated in that and that’s fine but you did give them that control over you. *snip* You do get what you give but that’s not how we have to roll. 

Edited May 2, 2018 by Saru
Removed inappropriate comment

[Kismit]

I think it's time to stop with the very petty insults. On both sides.

Discuss the topic, and don't insult entire nations of people to try and proove your points.

[psyche101]

11 hours ago, F3SS said:

I haven’t deflected anything. Since when am I shy about this topic? I’m just rolling with the conversation. You can deal with it.

The topic is how this incident is about how guns save lives. Not about our countries. 

Quote

I’m sure you can’t. You think we’re all a mixed version of Yosemite Sam and the hillbillies from Deliverance.

No, just the old ones with silly sayings like the cold dead hands ones or the my government might get me ones. I asked why you changed your stance on that and never got a reply. 

Quote

You guys do give a lot of power to the state. They tell you what an acceptable means of defense is. I know you happily participated in that and that’s fine but you did give them that control over you.

No we didn't  amazing how foreign the concept of democracy is to you. 

We gave no power to the state, I don't think you understand the Australian political system or the people at all. 

Quote

*snip*

See, that's just a personal insult, and they tend to come out when a poster has no argument. I could insult your country right back, but it would only Bury the thread topic wouldn't it? That would work for you wouldn't it? 

Quote

You do get what you give but that’s not how we have to roll. 

I was referring to the thread and posting ettiquitte. 

[F3SS]

Yea yea, you don’t understand our country and people either and I’ve never changed my stance on that. I know what you’re talking about. It was a post from a couple weeks ago. I actually tried to reply and my phone kept acting up and I was having trouble posting on the forum. Then life got in the way and I never got back to it. Basically what I was getting at then and now is that that is not my primary concern. It’s always something to be considerate of and I think we have enough voting and vocal power to keep it an unlikely scenario and though it may be unlikely, it’s not impossible. That’s always been my stance. It’s your condescending tone and mocking wordplay that gets you into fiery and irrational conversations with people. Obviously we both like having this debate but really we haven’t said anything new in 5 years.  

Edited May 2, 2018 by F3SS

[psyche101]

20 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Yea yea, you don’t understand our country and people either and I’ve never changed my stance on that.

The difference between you and I is that I do ask questions and attempt to learn about your country, and I feel through many posters and many questions I at least have a very basic idea. Sure, I'm human, I'll make mistakes, but I'm trying. You just tend to judge the rest of the world based on your perceptions and personal view of your own culture and political systems. 

20 minutes ago, F3SS said:

I know what you’re talking about. It was a post from a couple weeks ago. I actually tried to reply and my phone kept acting up and I was having trouble posting on the forum. Then life got in the way and I never got back to it. Basically what I was getting at then and now is that that is not my primary concern. It’s always something to be considerate of and I think we have enough voting and vocal power to keep it an unlikely scenario and though it may be unlikely, it’s not impossible. That’s always been my stance.

No, I was just speaking in general. You're overthinking it. 

20 minutes ago, F3SS said:

It’s your condescending tone and mocking wordplay that gets you into fiery and irrational conversations with people.

Are you for real?????????? You think your not condacending or mocking???????????? 

You think that calling my country men sheep lead by the government is pleasent banter? You insult and mock my country and way of life at every opportunity!!! Its where these discussion degenerate to when there's no answer to realistic ideas and proposals, this thread is supposed to be about guns saving lives, once I pointed out it was just a dumb Facebook fight it started to degenerate. 

I stand by what I said, this would not have elevated to a life and death situation in a country with gun regulations. It would not have elevated beyond fisticuffs, and this is not an example of guns saving lives. Its a sad story that shows how guns turn things into the worst possible outcome. If you'd like to attempt to discuss that  it would probably save the thread getting closed. 

20 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Obviously we both like having this debate but really we haven’t said anything new in 5 years.  

Not so much, I don't discuss the subject often scince those initial discussions. Don't enter a thread often on the subject  and don't get heavily involved. Some titles such as this one I find a travesty and comment. But too much animosity in these discussions  I'd rather be telling you about the latest and greatest guitar talents in the rise like Aussie Tash Sultana whom I've posted in the music section. 

[Kismit]

2 hours ago, Kismit said:

I think it's time to stop with the very petty insults. On both sides.

Discuss the topic, and don't insult entire nations of people to try and proove your points.

^^^^^^ This.

[AnchorSteam]

5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Not really, it's just a passionate subject. Same thing happens with religion politics, even UFOs. 

No, not UFOs, and this IS politics

5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

No, they are not evil but all are not alike either, so we find balance. 

You seem to assume that I and all like-minded are evil, and you address us as such. 

5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

 and although a large majority of Americans want better regulation,

Fake news.

5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Then everyone has a say. We care more for each others safety than what we perceive to be personal threats. Then the whole gets a say, true democracy, real freedom. 

99% of the Government is made up of unelected bureaucrats and they wield considerable power.

And there is such a thing as they tyranny of the majority. Do you know what Democracy is?  It is 3 Wolves and 1 Goat voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a Goat with a gun contesting the vote.

5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

 

That's what regulation does, and what gun regulation has brought to this country. 

We already have 20,000 gun laws in this country, and you still have one hell of a crime issue over there. And you will call me all sorts of things for pointing out that the country you are using as an example is highly flawed.

And your obsession with telling us how our nation, our attitudes, our culture and our Laws must be changed to conform with your ideas is not just strange, it is getting a little repulsive. 

5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

That's a misconception, it was the result of a bloody Facebook fight. That am 18 year old is dead, and a 16 year old is in hospital is the point. 

 

Every serial killer, every Mafia enforcer and every child-beating thug got started the same way.

The difference is, these two won't be going much farther down that particular career path. 

5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Sorry, but I find that appalling.

I know, everyone is bothered by something. It becomes a problem when obessing over it becomes a problem... for the one doing the obsessing. 

5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I'd say truly free is not having to have a deadly weapon in your home. Seems a step further to me. 

 

You have that option right now, as do all Americans. However, taking the guns away from the law-abiding citizen will do nothing to disarm the ones who are breaking the law in the first damn place. Just ask the entire continent of Africa.

This is one of the great logic-bombs of the entire argument; The criminals are doing illegal things in the first place, why would they obey anti-gun laws? They still aren't in the UK. Guns are still made and distributed, for the military and the police, and they get stolen all over the world with amazing frequency... and turn up all over the place.

There is also the fact that in the last couple of centuries, over 200 million people in the world have been murdered by their own Governments.

 

You speak as if the Vote was the one great panacea that solves all the ills of all aspects of Government, it is not enough in itself. What did the Russians think they were getting in 1917, what about the Italians in the 1920s? How about Spain and Germany in the 1930s? 

Even the better angles of humanity can lead to disaster.... and what you are talking about is also an irrevocable thing. Once we give up a right, or it is taken by force, it is gone forever. Not just we, but our children and their chidlren for many generations will face the consequences of our actions.

If you have unlimited faith in the perfect goodness of everyone that has a Govt. ID card, then that is up to you.

You call it a "gun culture", as is the case with every other word that comes from you that is meant to demean and denigrate everyone that believes in it.  But, but what right do you seek to crush our Culture? Intellectual Imperialism? 

5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

And - don't know Australia too well do you. Victoria might as well be another country to me, and a highly concentrated multicultural population. Its a good 20 hour drive from me. I don't like big cities, and don't live in one. I walked my dog last night after 9 pm, and didn't need a gun to do it. That's freedom. 

I can do better than that; there isn't a single neighborhood within 1,000 miles of where I live that I cannot walk around in any time of day or night. Of course, the trick is to do so without looking like a victim or a trouble maker. 

And I don't feel a lesser kinship with fellow Americans who live in different parts of my country. 

 

Oh, and as you said on page 2;

Quote

Nah, said my piece. You can carry on, it's all fixed now, and I would like to hope your aware of the automatic function. My first impression was you did it on purpose for impact, like how bold represents shouting.

So, keep posting to annoy people if you must, but if you succeed in getting this thread closed down there will only be another, and another.

[psyche101]

31 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

No, not UFOs, and this IS politics

You seem to assume that I and all like-minded are evil, and you address us as such. 

Fake news.

99% of the Government is made up of unelected bureaucrats and they wield considerable power.

And there is such a thing as they tyranny of the majority. Do you know what Democracy is?  It is 3 Wolves and 1 Goat voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a Goat with a gun contesting the vote.

We already have 20,000 gun laws in this country, and you still have one hell of a crime issue over there. And you will call me all sorts of things for pointing out that the country you are using as an example is highly flawed.

And your obsession with telling us how our nation, our attitudes, our culture and our Laws must be changed to conform with your ideas is not just strange, it is getting a little repulsive. 

Every serial killer, every Mafia enforcer and every child-beating thug got started the same way.

The difference is, these two won't be going much farther down that particular career path. 

I know, everyone is bothered by something. It becomes a problem when obessing over it becomes a problem... for the one doing the obsessing. 

You have that option right now, as do all Americans. However, taking the guns away from the law-abiding citizen will do nothing to disarm the ones who are breaking the law in the first damn place. Just ask the entire continent of Africa.

This is one of the great logic-bombs of the entire argument; The criminals are doing illegal things in the first place, why would they obey anti-gun laws? They still aren't in the UK. Guns are still made and distributed, for the military and the police, and they get stolen all over the world with amazing frequency... and turn up all over the place.

There is also the fact that in the last couple of centuries, over 200 million people in the world have been murdered by their own Governments.

 

You speak as if the Vote was the one great panacea that solves all the ills of all aspects of Government, it is not enough in itself. What did the Russians think they were getting in 1917, what about the Italians in the 1920s? How about Spain and Germany in the 1930s? 

Even the better angles of humanity can lead to disaster.... and what you are talking about is also an irrevocable thing. Once we give up a right, or it is taken by force, it is gone forever. Not just we, but our children and their chidlren for many generations will face the consequences of our actions.

If you have unlimited faith in the perfect goodness of everyone that has a Govt. ID card, then that is up to you.

You call it a "gun culture", as is the case with every other word that comes from you that is meant to demean and denigrate everyone that believes in it.  But, but what right do you seek to crush our Culture? Intellectual Imperialism? 

I can do better than that; there isn't a single neighborhood within 1,000 miles of where I live that I cannot walk around in any time of day or night. Of course, the trick is to do so without looking like a victim or a trouble maker. 

And I don't feel a lesser kinship with fellow Americans who live in different parts of my country. 

 

Oh, and as you said on page 2;

So, keep posting to annoy people if you must, but if you succeed in getting this thread closed down there will only be another, and another.

Your the one getting your own thread shut down. I'd have no problem providing answers but Kismit has spoken 

If you want to take this further  I suggest you open a specific thread. In the meantime I feel your example of guns saving lives when it was a Facebook fight is a tremendous and spectacular fail. 

Edited May 2, 2018 by psyche101

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Did I hear an Australian say “That’s Feeedom”?

by law I must therefore post this:

 

[Myles]

14 hours ago, psyche101 said:

That's your opinion and your entitled to it, but I'm not seeing justification for this incident at all. 

Then how come with the element of surprise giving them the advantage, that they ended up in hospital and dead while the killers got 30 rounds out? Why burst in yelling and screaming instead of stealthily taking out the residents? 

That just doesn't add up. 

 

We totally disagree on this.   If masked men, who are armed, break into my home, I feel I am more than justified in shooting them.   I'm amazed you see it differently. 

[AnchorSteam]

14 hours ago, Myles said:

We totally disagree on this.   If masked men, who are armed, break into my home, I feel I am more than justified in shooting them.   I'm amazed you see it differently. 

They used to have a saying; a Conservative is a Liberal that has been mugged.

.... then they found a way to blame themselves for getting mugged. 

 

Thank goodness for Darwin being right, eh?

[psyche101]

15 hours ago, Myles said:

We totally disagree on this.   If masked men, who are armed, break into my home, I feel I am more than justified in shooting them.   I'm amazed you see it differently. 

They were known not strangers. They made plenty of noise, plenty of time to alert authorities, the dead 18 year old is barely a man, and the 16 year old was a kid. 

Point being if a Facebook fight happens in counties with gun regulations this would not have elevated beyond fisticuffs. This is not an example of guns saving lives, there is no proof anyone's life was actually threatened. A gun was allegedly found at the scene, but no word as to who actually owned it. It's a sad tale where young people got killed and hurt over the false bravado that the so called great equaliser creates. 

I'm honestly amazed people dismiss all that to jump to the defence of gun culture. 

[Kismit]

I wish to interject with a simple,

I could not shoot for any reason.

They are somone's child, and I wish more people understood that.

[Myles]

6 hours ago, psyche101 said:

They were known not strangers. They made plenty of noise, plenty of time to alert authorities, the dead 18 year old is barely a man, and the 16 year old was a kid. 

Point being if a Facebook fight happens in counties with gun regulations this would not have elevated beyond fisticuffs. This is not an example of guns saving lives, there is no proof anyone's life was actually threatened. A gun was allegedly found at the scene, but no word as to who actually owned it. It's a sad tale where young people got killed and hurt over the false bravado that the so called great equaliser creates. 

I'm honestly amazed people dismiss all that to jump to the defence of gun culture. 

Forcibly breaking into a house is threatening.    Wearing masks to hide your face adds to it.   Being armed is the topper.  

Maybe there was time to alert the authorities, but they would not get there in time.   I doubt the group of attackers would wait for you to make a call. 

[AnchorSteam]

5 hours ago, Kismit said:

I wish to interject with a simple,

I could not shoot for any reason.

They are somone's child, and I wish more people understood that.

I know that this is an unfair advantage to have, but those of us who have been in combat know that this is not true.

You may not have the presence of mind to aim your weapon (a surprising number of trained Soldiers don't) but if someone is coming at you with violent intentions, then the animal part of your mind WILL react.

Youth is no guarantee of kindly and honorable behavior... in fact, it is just the opposite. I know it may shock people who have forgotten what it was like to be a kid, but they can be so thoughtlessly vicious because not being that way is learned behavior, it must be taught, and some people never really get the lesson.

This is the major reason why all of the Armies of the world prefer to use 18-20 year olds to do their killing for them. 

[Michelle]

6 hours ago, Kismit said:

I wish to interject with a simple,

I could not shoot for any reason.

They are somone's child, and I wish more people understood that.

I grabbed my gun yesterday when I saw a man trying to lure one of my neighbors three little girls into his truck. They are all under the age of nine. When he saw me he jumped back into the truck and sped off. I wouldn't have had any trouble using it if I'd needed to.

[internetperson]

29 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

This is the major reason why all of the Armies of the world prefer to use 18-20 year olds to do their killing for them. 

2 of my friends were shot in Iraq (one 3 times, separate occasions) and all incidents were by kids. 2 other friends were forced to shoot kids cause they were suicide bombers.

Nobody wants to shoot anybody, especially a kid. But I under no circumstances will trade my life for any soul willing to take mine. Kid or not. Kicking my door in at night will get you shot, period. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by internetperson

[Dark_Grey]

23 minutes ago, Michelle said:

I grabbed my gun yesterday when I saw a man trying to lure one of my neighbors three little girls into his truck. They are all under the age of nine. When he saw me he jumped back into the truck and sped off. I wouldn't have had any trouble using it if I'd needed to.

Good save. Imagine if you had tried to stop him unarmed? 

I'm not saying everyone should carry in case there's a mass shooting at the mall, cause odds are you or I will never be in that situation. But people tend to overlook the sheer number of bad apples out there - the situation you described is way too common. Imagine if you had called the Police? The little girl would have been long gone by the time you were off the phone. Guns save lives.

[Michelle]

17 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

The little girl would have been long gone by the time you were off the phone. Guns save lives.

It took the police six minutes to get here. The oldest one did great. When she saw the man talking to her little sister she yelled for her mom. I was already headed out there to find out who he was.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Michelle

[Dark_Grey]

6 hours ago, Kismit said:

I wish to interject with a simple,

I could not shoot for any reason.

They are somone's child, and I wish more people understood that.

They are someone's child but so are you. Sorry, but his/her life is worth dog crap when it comes to myself or my family's safety. You could take a chance that they aren't going to do you harm but that's a helluva chance to take. 

There are a thousand scenarios where you may HAVE take a life, Kismit. No one ever, ever wants to be put in that situation but the unfortunate reality is that sometimes it literally comes down to you or them.

I listened to a chilling 911 call on YouTube yesterday where someone was trying to break in to a home while the wife was on the phone with Police. You could hear the husband in the background yelling at the man repeatedly: "I have a gun! Don't come in here!"

The woman was crying and after a few seconds you could hear the man again yelling, with desperation "Please, please go away! I don't want to shoot you! Please go away!" 

Then you hear the door breaking. Then you hear two pops. Then you hear nothing. The husband then takes the phone and calmly, somberly explains to the operator what happened. 

Any lawful gun owner will tell you they hope they NEVER have to shoot someone. It's as traumatic to the gun owner as it would be for anyone - we aren't special ops, just regular people who believe in the right to self defense.

 

Edit to add--

Just like with Michelle's abduction incident, the couple on the phone call could have chosen to wait for Police instead. The phone call would have gone very differently had that been the case.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Dark_Grey

[Kismit]

23 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

They are someone's child but so are you. Sorry, but his/her life is worth dog crap when it comes to myself or my family's safety. You could take a chance that they aren't going to do you harm but that's a helluva chance to take. 

There are a thousand scenarios where you may HAVE take a life, Kismit. No one ever, ever wants to be put in that situation but the unfortunate reality is that sometimes it literally comes down to you or them.

I listened to a chilling 911 call on YouTube yesterday where someone was trying to break in to a home while the wife was on the phone with Police. You could hear the husband in the background yelling at the man repeatedly: "I have a gun! Don't come in here!"

The woman was crying and after a few seconds you could hear the man again yelling, with desperation "Please, please go away! I don't want to shoot you! Please go away!" 

Then you hear the door breaking. Then you hear two pops. Then you hear nothing. The husband then takes the phone and calmly, somberly explains to the operator what happened. 

Any lawful gun owner will tell you they hope they NEVER have to shoot someone. It's as traumatic to the gun owner as it would be for anyone - we aren't special ops, just regular people who believe in the right to self defense.

 

Edit to add--

Just like with Michelle's abduction incident, the couple on the phone call could have chosen to wait for Police instead. The phone call would have gone very differently had that been the case.

Re bolded: That is why my post ended with, I wish more people understood that.

[Kismit]

1 hour ago, Michelle said:

I grabbed my gun yesterday when I saw a man trying to lure one of my neighbors three little girls into his truck. They are all under the age of nine. When he saw me he jumped back into the truck and sped off. I wouldn't have had any trouble using it if I'd needed to.

I would have gone out there and intervenened before I went to get a weapon.

Yelled out,"Get away from that kid" and brought attention to the man. Made as many witness' as possible aware of the incident and scare the pedophile off.

Obviuos question; what if he had a gun? 

Answer; I would hope he would be smart enough to take flight over fight and give himself more chance to get away.