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AnchorSteam

Home invasion repelled with guns

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F3SS
37 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Well you know its the irresponsible contingent that take innocent lives that I don't feel is properly identified for the real terrorist threat that it is. But I find it concerning that so many feel the need to own a deadly weapon, you don't find that need outlines the very problem? 

Arguments for the second amendment aside, there are simply so many guns here that they’ll never go away. As the saying goes, I’ll give up my gun when everybody else does and that’s a lot easier to do and control on an island nation with a 1/16th of our population.

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AnchorSteam

CNN's Anthony Bourdain of the travel series Parts Unknown visited West Virginia, reports Marlow Stern at Daily Beast:

 

Quote

 

 I was curious, and I was utterly disarmed and very moved by what I found there. People were incredibly kind and generous to me, not hostile to my political beliefs...

I went to West Virginia with the intent of making a show that was respectful and sympathetic, and that was easy because people were genuinely deserving of that respect...

I thought it was useful to talk to people who were unwavering in their interpretation of the Second Amendment. Again, one of the things that makes the argument so difficult is that they were so nice, and from what I could see, they were responsible gun owners—very rigorous about safety, training...

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/anthony-bourdains-journey-deep-into-the-heart-of-trump-country-i-was-utterly-disarmed

Well ain't he just something special... :rolleyes:

But, as condescending at it is, its still the nicest thing a Lefty has said about us folks in ages.

 

 

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psyche101
23 hours ago, F3SS said:

Arguments for the second amendment aside, there are simply so many guns here that they’ll never go away.

I don't see how regulation affects the second, regulation just applied responsibility to it. 

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As the saying goes, I’ll give up my gun when everybody else does and that’s a lot easier to do and control on an island nation with a 1/16th of our population.

Of course, that goes without saying. It's not method that needs to be applied, but outcomes that should be better considered. I just find it hard to believe that a fore runner of the western world can't find a solution when so many others can. That sounds moreime an issue driceb by profit. 

What we did was wipe the slate clean. People handed in guns, and those with a genuine need apply and are registered, then you know who should have a weapon, and who wants one without any reason to do so. That's a direct route to weeding out criminal behaviour and removing the means for them to be armed. 

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Myles
10 hours ago, psyche101 said:

What we did was wipe the slate clean. People handed in guns, and those with a genuine need apply and are registered, then you know who should have a weapon, and who wants one without any reason to do so. That's a direct route to weeding out criminal behaviour and removing the means for them to be armed. 

You typed a good synopsis of why we prefer things the way they are.  

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maxcred
On ‎4‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 12:49 PM, AnchorSteam said:

In response to the constant elevation to National News of every single incident with Guns in this nation of 330 million people, I will seek to balance it with threads like this one.

They are, according to the FBI data base, far more common.

 

Residents Open Fire with AR-15, 9mm Handgun and Turn the Tide on 7 Invasion Suspects

(Hey, don't blame me, that is the font the article uses)

 

 

 

 

This situation was an 'Incident that stemmed from ongoing feud between two groups, investigators say'. That's from the article in the link you provided. This was not a situation in which peaceful law abiding citizens were victimized and rose to their own defense because they were armed. This was a shootout. Burglary was not the intent, it was the result of a feud. That's why the people in the trailer had quick access to their guns because they knew someone was after them. Home invasions are about burglary. In this case the intruders tried to fool the people in the trailer by yelling 'Sheriffs Office' before entering the mobile home but this shootout could have happened anywhere, a parking lot, a mall. Just because they choose to go to the other groups mobile home does not make it home invasion. These were two gangs trying to resolve their feud with gunfire, not a law abiding family turning the tables on the bad guys because they were armed as you imply. These were all bad guys who solve their problems with guns.         

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aztek
Just now, maxcred said:

 This was not a situation in which peaceful law abiding citizens were victimized and rose to their own defense because they were armed.

this was not, but there are plenty where exactly that happened.

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Myles

 

This was an example of a bad use of a gun and a good use of a gun.

 

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AnchorSteam
42 minutes ago, maxcred said:

This situation was an 'Incident that stemmed from ongoing feud between two groups, investigators say'. That's from the article in the link you provided....

Look, if the only argument you have against all guns in all cases is picking away at the fine points of the case, and if you want to try to case here, I have to wonder how weak the anti-gun case really is.

 

This started as an on-line dispute. If somebody you had a argument with here got wild and showed up yelling and screaming at your home, kicked your door down and came at you with a gun, wouldn't you want to kill them before they killed you?

If not, I have a Darwin award for you.

 

23 minutes ago, Myles said:

 

This was an example of a bad use of a gun and a good use of a gun.

And it wasn't even in America.

 

I rest my case, yer' Honor. B)

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psyche101
8 hours ago, Myles said:

You typed a good synopsis of why we prefer things the way they are.  

I realise that, it's a want, I just find the cost of that want barbaric and outdated. Kids die for that want, I couldn't live with that on my conscience. You guys not only accept that needless death but deem those young lives a worthy sacrifice for that want. That's why the rest of the world sees the outdated practise in such a dim light. It's morally disgraceful in my opinion, and the opinions of millions of others. I can't see the value in it for such a high cost. 

That's not what we are discussing though as I keep mentioning. The OP was not an example of guns saving lives. This is just another example of young lives taken through the false bravado that turns very real, and they have become victims of sacrifice for a personal want through the mindset of gun culture. This would not elevate to a life and death situation in any country with regulation, and as such, morally it seems something most would be ashamed of, not proud. I'll never get that side of gun culture. It's not something I can find reason or rationality in.

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Myles
13 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I realise that, it's a want, I just find the cost of that want barbaric and outdated. Kids die for that want, I couldn't live with that on my conscience. You guys not only accept that needless death but deem those young lives a worthy sacrifice for that want. That's why the rest of the world sees the outdated practise in such a dim light. It's morally disgraceful in my opinion, and the opinions of millions of others. I can't see the value in it for such a high cost. 

 

I think you are a stand up guy psyche, and I have always enjoyed reading your posts, but I'm not sure I believe you here.    People "want" their swimming pools which kill many, many more children.   Does your conscience bother you when loved ones use swimming pools?

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Michelle
On 5/12/2018 at 11:03 PM, F3SS said:

That’s good and relieving news. Probably still freaks you out someone like that was in your front yard. I hope he’s sent away for long time.

Update: They checked the GPS on his phone and it proves he was here at that time. It's a slam dunk case! I didn't even know someone could track your history like that on them. :sk

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aztek

sure they can, they can do it with any phone, it is not even gps, but cell phone company records, what towers the phone was connected at the time. signal strength,  by triangulation they can find pretty accurate location, even for old, no data phones

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F3SS
3 hours ago, Michelle said:

Update: They checked the GPS on his phone and it proves he was here at that time. It's a slam dunk case! I didn't even know someone could track your history like that on them. :sk

I’m pretty sure my iPhone has a log of everywhere I’ve ever been every second since I had it. Good thing criminals are stupid. Good job on your part!

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psyche101
14 hours ago, Myles said:

I think you are a stand up guy psyche, and I have always enjoyed reading your posts, but I'm not sure I believe you here.   

I hold you in high regard too, but @DieChecker said exactly that  and that he could even tell a parent their child died for the right to own a weapon, and that it was a worthy sacrifice. I couldn't do that or accept it, we have very different attitudes toward the community it seems. 

14 hours ago, Myles said:

People "want" their swimming pools which kill many, many more children.   Does your conscience bother you when loved ones use swimming pools?

It will the day someone takes a swimming pool to a school or nightclub to purposely murder people

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AnchorSteam
1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

It will the day someone takes a swimming pool to a school or nightclub to purposely murder people

Back to the Home Invasion case then, the relevance would be this; I bounce your head off the concrete and chuck you into the Pool to drown.

 

Hey, if you want to get silly about it, there you go.

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psyche101
46 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

Back to the Home Invasion case then, the relevance would be this; I bounce your head off the concrete and chuck you into the Pool to drown.

 

Hey, if you want to get silly about it, there you go.

Hey, I bow to your silliness, your an expert no doubt about it. 

No an equivalent would be if someone drowns in a pool, to answer that by going out and buying more and bigger pools. 

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Myles
10 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I hold you in high regard too, but @DieChecker said exactly that  and that he could even tell a parent their child died for the right to own a weapon, and that it was a worthy sacrifice. I couldn't do that or accept it, we have very different attitudes toward the community it seems. 

It will the day someone takes a swimming pool to a school or nightclub to purposely murder people

How they are killed should not be a factor in your statement about a "want" - " Kids die for that want, I couldn't live with that on my conscience. You guys not only accept that needless death but deem those young lives a worthy sacrifice for that want".

Many more children die for the "want" to let children swim.   Deaths for anything is deemed a worthy sacrifice.   Cars, pools, guns, motorcycles, junk food, alcohol, cigarettes, heaters, ladders and lawn mowers to name a few.    Most people are willing to accept the death of many for the want of the item.  

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psyche101
11 hours ago, Myles said:

How they are killed should not be a factor in your statement about a "want" - " Kids die for that want, I couldn't live with that on my conscience. You guys not only accept that needless death but deem those young lives a worthy sacrifice for that want".

Many more children die for the "want" to let children swim.   Deaths for anything is deemed a worthy sacrifice.   Cars, pools, guns, motorcycles, junk food, alcohol, cigarettes, heaters, ladders and lawn mowers to name a few.    Most people are willing to accept the death of many for the want of the item.  

Its not deemed a worthy sacrifice  these are not offensive weapons designed to kill. Those risks are mitigated just as gun regulation is. Less children drown because we have fencing laws and signs illustrating instruction for recusitstion must be displayed clearly.

Nobody ever stormed a school and killed a dozen kids with a bucket of KFC. It's illegal for children to smoke cigarettes. 

But weapons do kill people for no good reason, this thread illustrates that. It wouldn't happen like this rszujring in death and injury where gun regulation is implemented. If people used the above items you have listed to attack other people, I'd call that a fair comparison. They don't, they are accidental deaths, someone storming a school or nightclub with an AR15 is not an accident. 

People don't accept these deaths. They are being regulated and the counts are dropping. Solutions are constantly under improvement to work better. There is a clear correlation between gun ownership and irresponsible deaths of innocents - not accidents, murders. Other countries have well proven the positive impact that gun regulation has. 

There's a risk a child might die in a pool, a personal risk to evaluate, but putting a pool in won't be responsible for multiple deaths of people for being of a certain religious or sexual persuasion nor will many kids just going to school die because the neighbour put a pool in. It's a risk to the immediate person, and I know several who have filled in pools in bought houses due to risk and maintenance. Yet with guns we get the silly cold dead hand cliche, apples and oranges. 

And it strikes me that death by one cause does not justify death by another cause just because it happens under one cause. Its not OK for people to die doing one activity because other activities can also result in death. They are irrelevant to each other. It's not a reason, it's an excuse, and I just don't feel it applies. People die in war, that doesn't mean we can kill others in a disagreement. 

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AnchorSteam
53 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Nobody ever stormed a school and killed a dozen kids with a bucket of KFC. It's illegal for children to smoke cigarettes. 

In now way am I being snarky here, but if the above makes any sense or seems to have any relevance here.... we may as well be living on two different planets.

And maybe we should be.

But I will settle for living in different Nations where we are diverse in more than just appearance's sake.

agreed?

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But weapons do kill people for no good reason, this thread illustrates that. It wouldn't happen like this rszujring in death and injury where gun regulation is implemented.

There is a mass-shooting that just happened in the country that you are holding up as the example to follow (your own) that was just linked a couple of pages ago on this very thread.

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People don't accept these deaths.

So? 

They happened, that is reality, and no amount of Unicorns can change that.

 

And honestly, the moment we start accepting death... we may as well already be dead.

So.... just keep sounding off if you want to. Hey, I may be wrong, and you may be right. Nobody has ever been right about everything, after all. 

But can you allow a smidgin of doubt to penetrate, once in a while?

I have some stuff below that may make you want to think, instead of leap straight to counter-arguemnts and all that noise.

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They are being regulated and the counts are dropping. Solutions are constantly under improvement to work better. There is a clear correlation between gun ownership and irresponsible deaths of innocents - not accidents, murders. Other countries have well proven the positive impact that gun regulation has. 

This is actually about more than that.

Do you think the Jews could have been gassed by Nazi Germany unless their guns had been confiscated first? How about Japanese Internment Camps? How about the 100 million killed by Communist regimes between 1917 and 1991?

... now, before you go off and call me a tin-foil whatever because I mentioned Nazis, tell me how it is possible that AntiFa is so widespread in the West and has gained such a huge following based in their "anti-Fascist" message?

If you still want to say that nothing like that can ever possibly happen again and nations that suffered under then can never go that way again, you will have to explain to me why 50% of the world's neo-Nazis can be found in RUSSIA today.

Yeah, I couldn't believe that either, but it turns out to be true.

 

You and I live in two of the very few nations that have never had their own Govt's turn against their own people. IMHO, it is probably because ours are so new. But there is a difference; to get free of the British Empire, MY country had to endure an 8-year war. Your country had to sign some papers, like it was an amicable divorce. 

That makes a difference. 

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There's a risk a child might die in a pool, a personal risk to evaluate, but putting a pool in won't be responsible for multiple deaths of people for being of a certain religious or sexual persuasion nor will many kids just going to school die because the neighbour put a pool in. It's a risk to the immediate person,

AND, a pool is an inanimate object, just like a gun. 

And you know that, but you also think that having a hand on a gun changes a person, somehow. And I am here to tell you that it does in one way and one way only;

It gives that person a powerful tool as far as Self-Determinism goes. 

That is the key, and if us gun owners (lets skip the pejoratives, okay?) are guilty of a fetish, it is the desire to say "NO, I will not be a cog in somebody else's machine for the rest of my life."

I know that we should be happy with whatever place the Bureocray assigns us in this Brave New World (Huxley) but what if we are not?

What if we don't want to be marched into that compound surrounded by barbed wire?

What if we don't want to let the tax-collector take a child of ours in lieu of payment (Rome, among many others)

What if we just want to be LEFT THE HELL ALONE ?

Unelss you can absolutely guarantee that we and all of our descendants can never face that threat, your confiscation policy will never hold any water with me, and millions of other people.

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. Yet with guns we get the silly cold dead hand cliche, apples and oranges. 

And now you should see that it is more like Tamatoe and Tomato .

And in more cases than you would like to know of, it isn't bravado and a willingness to fight and die to make the point. It is a sincere preference for death over living in a world ruled by the kind of people that Promise a Utopia. 

They can never deliver, and it makes them vicious.

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And it strikes me that death by one cause does not justify death by another cause just because it happens under one cause. Its not OK for people to die doing one activity because other activities can also result in death. They are irrelevant to each other. It's not a reason, it's an excuse, and I just don't feel it applies. People die in war, that doesn't mean we can kill others in a disagreement. 

War is a disagreement that got out of hand. 

 

Why don't you do it your way, and we will do it our way, and in 50 years our descendants can compare notes.

Well... unless one of us has turned into North Korea and no notes ever cross the border.

Get my drift? 

Edited by AnchorSteam
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psyche101
2 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

In now way am I being snarky here, but if the above makes any sense or seems to have any relevance here.... we may as well be living on two different planets.

That's what I'm saying. They are not comparable. 

Quote

And maybe we should be.

But I will settle for living in different Nations where we are diverse in more than just appearance's sake.

agreed?

Well that goes without saying, but it doesn't mean old traditions are good things to hang onto. PNG has headhunting as tradition but nobody in their right mind would consider that a cultural tradition that should be carried in to this day and age and preserved. 

Quote

There is a mass-shooting that just happened in the country that you are holding up as the example to follow (your own) that was just linked a couple of pages ago on this very thread.

Yes I responded to it, perhaps you missed that? That incident compounds what I'm saying. We let farmers have weapons, and this small community entrusted with this exception to the rule has caused unessessry death. That tends to follow in any place where deadly weapons are available. It doesn't happen here where regulations are tighter because people are outside of such complacency. 

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So? 

They happened, that is reality, and no amount of Unicorns can change that.

Gun regulation has done exactly that for the rest of the world though. 

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And honestly, the moment we start accepting death... we may as well already be dead.

That's what I'm saying, just because someone dies in a car accident doesn't make things like school shootings acceptable. 

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So.... just keep sounding off if you want to. Hey, I may be wrong, and you may be right. Nobody has ever been right about everything, after all. 

But can you allow a smidgin of doubt to penetrate, once in a while?

I'm exhibiting that regulation works by providing working examples. I'm not seeing any good reason to doubt those results. 

Quote

I have some stuff below that may make you want to think, instead of leap straight to counter-arguemnts and all that noise.

This is actually about more than that.

Do you think the Jews could have been gassed by Nazi Germany unless their guns had been confiscated first? How about Japanese Internment Camps? How about the 100 million killed by Communist regimes between 1917 and 1991?

I think they would just have been bombed out of existance if resistance was a real issue. 

Quote

... now, before you go off and call me a tin-foil whatever because I mentioned Nazis, tell me how it is possible that AntiFa is so widespread in the West and has gained such a huge following based in their "anti-Fascist" message?

If you still want to say that nothing like that can ever possibly happen again and nations that suffered under then can never go that way again, you will have to explain to me why 50% of the world's neo-Nazis can be found in RUSSIA today.

Yeah, I couldn't believe that either, but it turns out to be true.

Russia is not the US, there is no immediate threat that is mitigated by owning a deadly weapon. 

Quote

You and I live in two of the very few nations that have never had their own Govt's turn against their own people. IMHO, it is probably because ours are so new. But there is a difference; to get free of the British Empire, MY country had to endure an 8-year war. Your country had to sign some papers, like it was an amicable divorce. 

That makes a difference.

Its also a sign of the times, we just don't go conquering new lands anymore, we don't wipe out indigenous peoples for land rights. Today's government is well armed, I just don't believe that some householders with guns are any match for a rogue government, the only option is other governments just like the US deposed dictators in the middle East. Those people were armed too but died in masses at the hands of a brutal dictator with a well armed force behind them. 

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AND, a pool is an inanimate object, just like a gun. 

No, nothing alike whatsoever, a pool is not engineered to take life. Nobody ever carried out a mass killing with a pool. 

Quote

And you know that, but you also think that having a hand on a gun changes a person, somehow. And I am here to tell you that it does in one way and one way only;

It gives that person a powerful tool as far as Self-Determinism goes. 

As it does for criminals who are starting out with bad intentions, how is that not making a bad situation worse? 

Quote

That is the key, and if us gun owners (lets skip the pejoratives, okay?) are guilty of a fetish, it is the desire to say "NO, I will not be a cog in somebody else's machine for the rest of my life."

That's not the case with regulations, we are allowed to own a weapon, we just have to demonstrate a good reason and responsibility so that innocent people don't pay for the contingent who abuse such a privelage. And it makes it so much easier to seperate a bad guy from a good guy. I don't see how a small amount of weapons in the most trusted hands is not better than just letting any loon with a fetish take it to any extreme they decide to create. 

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I know that we should be happy with whatever place the Bureocray assigns us in this Brave New World (Huxley) but what if we are not?

Then you vote, you get involved in the system and if the grievance is genuine, there will be community support. There is strength in numbers, and that's how we change things for the better. 

Quote

What if we don't want to be marched into that compound surrounded by barbed wire?

What if we don't want to let the tax-collector take a child of ours in lieu of payment (Rome, among many others)

What if we just want to be LEFT THE HELL ALONE ?

Then you be alone. Fly under the RADAR, go of the grid, take steps to ensure your privacy, don't demand its given by others, its up to you to seek out your own goals. 

Quote

Unelss you can absolutely guarantee that we and all of our descendants can never face that threat, your confiscation policy will never hold any water with me, and millions of other people.

Regulation is not confiscation, its a community decision based on overall safety. Gun owners act as if stormtroopers are going to burst into homes and rip them apart taking what they want. Regulation has not been implemented in other countries like that, why would that even be an option in the US? 

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And now you should see that it is more like Tamatoe and Tomato .

No, I don't see an argument for unrestricted access to deadly weapons. 

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And in more cases than you would like to know of, it isn't bravado and a willingness to fight and die to make the point. It is a sincere preference for death over living in a world ruled by the kind of people that Promise a Utopia. 

Nobody is promising a Utopia, real world result illustrate clearly the regulation is of benefit to the community, and makes life harder for criminal minds, that's the only claim and its based on other experiences. 

These kids I your op were brought up to defend their pride and now one is dead and a kid is injured. I just don't see merit there. 

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They can never deliver, and it makes them vicious.

But it has delivered in countries where the community has supported a group decision in the interests of a safer community. 

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War is a disagreement that got out of hand. 

So was the story in the OP but exaggerated to look like self defense. 

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Why don't you do it your way, and we will do it our way, and in 50 years our descendants can compare notes.

We already have decades of success to consider from countries that have adopted the appel roach of regulation. Our last gun massacre, which was very devestating to the community was the catalyst to instigate gun control. Scince then, we have not had a gunman go wild in the public space. 

Quote

Well... unless one of us has turned into North Korea and no notes ever cross the border.

Get my drift? 

All things change, no idea what North Korea might be like in another 50 years.

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Farmer77
6 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

And you know that, but you also think that having a hand on a gun changes a person, somehow. And I am here to tell you that it does in one way and one way only;

It gives that person a powerful tool as far as Self-Determinism goes. 

Oh come on. You cant seriously be denying that being in possession of a gun makes people (especially younger ones) feel way more powerful than they do without said gun. 

I have multiple anecdotal stories that back up that position but there's actually a current thread about someone like that, George Zimmerman. A little wart of a human being who was able to live out his Death Wish fantasies by chasing down a "bad guy" before killing an innocent teenager (after screaming like a b**** because he was getting the ass kicking he deserved by said teenager). Dude never would have been in that situation if he didn't have the psychological protection of a sidearm. 

 

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Myles
10 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Its not deemed a worthy sacrifice  these are not offensive weapons designed to kill. Those risks are mitigated just as gun regulation is. Less children drown because we have fencing laws and signs illustrating instruction for recusitstion must be displayed clearly.

 

Kids still die because of these items and you are fine with that "worthy sacrifice.  

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AnchorSteam
8 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Oh come on. You cant seriously be denying that being in possession of a gun makes people (especially younger ones) feel way more powerful than they do without said gun. 

I have multiple anecdotal stories that back up that position but there's actually a current thread about someone like that, George Zimmerman. A little wart of a human being who was able to live out his Death Wish fantasies by chasing down a "bad guy" before killing an innocent teenager (after screaming like a b**** because he was getting the ass kicking he deserved by said teenager). Dude never would have been in that situation if he didn't have the psychological protection of a sidearm. 

 

Zimmerman, who was part of the Neighborhood Watch in a high-crime area, was confronted by and attacked by the guy he was keeping an eye on. Are you trying to tell me that if your head was being pounded into the concrete by some guy that had thrown you to the ground .... that you would not have used a gun if you had one on you? If so, you have never been in a physical confrontation and have no basis for understanding this sort of thing.

The wounds he sustained are why the first responders not even charge him with anything.

That came later, thanks to the media, who used much younger photos of the dead guy to make him look innocent, and later had to try to refer to Zimmerman as a "White Hispanic" to make him see more like the usual White Devil that must be destroyed by the all-benevolent Left-wing Establishment. 

5 hours ago, Myles said:

Kids still die because of these items and you are fine with that "worthy sacrifice.  

I agree . but...

Lets let that be the end of references to "Kids" here, okay? It is all pandering, this use of 18 year-old "kids" as human shields against logic. Its all rather Palestinian, don't you think?

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AnchorSteam
12 hours ago, psyche101 said:

That's what I'm saying. They are not comparable. 

 

Lets cut through the rhetoric, shall we?

12 hours ago, psyche101 said:

 

As it does for criminals who are starting out with bad intentions, how is that not making a bad situation worse?

If you believe that the overwhelming majority of people are stupid rotten criminals, that should be your view.

If, on the other hand, you believe that almost all people are good at heart and are just looking for a way to defend themselves, then you would want to allow themselves to have the tools to do so.

You still won't comment on the fact that according to US Justce Dept. stats, 2.5 million crimes were prevented by armed Americans. Why not?

It must be true, since it comes from the all-benevolent and all-trustworthy Govt you indicate that we should always trust our existence to.

That is a HELL of a lot more lives saved than a Handful of mass shootings a year would account for, and I have a name for that;

THE BIG PICTURE.

12 hours ago, psyche101 said:

 

Then you vote,

You may not have heard, but there has been some controversy about that lately.... 

And would you like to guess at how many Countries only have one name on the ballot?

12 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Then you be alone. Fly under the RADAR, go of the grid, take steps to ensure your privacy,

Two words; Ruby Ridge.

12 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Regulation is not confiscation,

But it always leads to that, incrementally. It did in Russia, it did in the U'K., and it did in your country. And when they are being honest (you have to get them riled up or trusting you to hear it) the Anti-gun people in the USA admit it.

Oh, I know that a very small number of guns could ramain in private hands in Australia... if the owner was rich enough, had time to do all the paperwork, and was approved of by the Police and Govt as being their sort.

Does that sound very fair to everyone else?

The rich must love it, but then again they can hire armed guards to protect themselves, can't they?

12 hours ago, psyche101 said:

No, I don't see an argument for to deadly weapons. 

Strawman.  Quote me or anyone else on this thread that used the term  "unrestricted access".

12 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Nobody is promising a Utopia, real world result illustrate clearly the regulation is of benefit to the community, and makes life harder for criminal minds, that's the only claim and its based on other experiences. 

....

But it has delivered in countries where the community has supported a group decision in the interests of a safer community. 

So.... you say that nobody ever promised Utopia, but then you say that it has been delivered... where?

Name the place.

12 hours ago, psyche101 said:

So was the story in the OP but exaggerated to look like self defense. 

Are you crazy?!?

Okay, so if I go to your house because of this very argument we are having, come in screaming and smash my way past your door, you are saying that if YOU don't let ME beat on your until you are dead or crippled for life, then YOU are the one that is in the wrong?

I think you had better hope there are on freaks looking at this that are looking for a good victim.... I mean, that's just insane!

12 hours ago, psyche101 said:

We already have decades of success to consider from countries that have adopted the appel roach of regulation. Our last gun massacre, which was very devestating to the community was the catalyst to instigate gun control. Scince then, we have not had a gunman go wild in the public space. 

You say that to refute the idea that time makes a difference, but in the very next sentence; 

12 hours ago, psyche101 said:

All things change, no idea what North Korea might be like in another 50 years.

You speak out of both sides of your mouth at the same time like nobody I have ever encountered, outside of the Middle East.

 

You said that in the event of an uprising, the Govt could simply bomb We The People into submission.

Tell that to Vietnam.

I dare you.

 

"Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry."
-Thomas Jefferson

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Myles
48 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

Lets let that be the end of references to "Kids" here, okay? It is all pandering, this use of 18 year-old "kids" as human shields against logic. Its all rather Palestinian, don't you think?

I agree.   It just bugs me when people try to say I don't care about kids getting shot because I am against banning guns.   In my opinion, that can be used for any number of items we are allowed to have that have killed kids.  

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