Genetic Engineering and Ethics.

[danydandan]

I was listening to a debate on the radio earlier today regarding the ethics of genetic engineering on humans.

The debate swung back and forth, but it got me thinking what religious minded people thought of the ethics of genetic engineering in humans.

My wife is an Evangelical Christian, she was siding on the, it's against nature or God's will. So I asked a simple question. If there was a way we could ensure our two daughters never get sick would you do it or would you let either of them get sick, possibly die, because it's Gods will?

This changed her mind, I think every parent would love to ensure their children never get sick.

I know genetic engineering is in it's infancy and testing is obviously troublesome as we can't predict what the changes might do in the long run. But if it was proven your children wouldn't get cancer, Parkinson's, ALS, Hutchinson etc etc would religious people allow genetic engineering to be carried out on the children?

[Illyrius]

3 hours ago, danydandan said:

I was listening to a debate on the radio earlier today regarding the ethics of genetic engineering on humans.

The debate swung back and forth, but it got me thinking what religious minded people thought of the ethics of genetic engineering in humans.

My wife is an Evangelical Christian, she was siding on the, it's against nature or God's will. So I asked a simple question. If there was a way we could ensure our two daughters never get sick would you do it or would you let either of them get sick, possibly die, because it's Gods will?

This changed her mind, I think every parent would love to ensure their children never get sick.

I know genetic engineering is in it's infancy and testing is obviously troublesome as we can't predict what the changes might do in the long run. But if it was proven your children wouldn't get cancer, Parkinson's, ALS, Hutchinson etc etc would religious people allow genetic engineering to be carried out on the children?

I would say it is a tricky area. Usually when people spot some problem and try to violently intervene into nature it goes against them. Good example is when Mao noticed that seeds are eaten by birds... we know what ensued, and the aftermath of it.

[jmccr8]

4 hours ago, danydandan said:

I was listening to a debate on the radio earlier today regarding the ethics of genetic engineering on humans.

The debate swung back and forth, but it got me thinking what religious minded people thought of the ethics of genetic engineering in humans.

My wife is an Evangelical Christian, she was siding on the, it's against nature or God's will. So I asked a simple question. If there was a way we could ensure our two daughters never get sick would you do it or would you let either of them get sick, possibly die, because it's Gods will?

This changed her mind, I think every parent would love to ensure their children never get sick.

I know genetic engineering is in it's infancy and testing is obviously troublesome as we can't predict what the changes might do in the long run. But if it was proven your children wouldn't get cancer, Parkinson's, ALS, Hutchinson etc etc would religious people allow genetic engineering to be carried out on the children?

Hi Dan

I thought the movie "The Island" has an interesting way of expressing part of the issues in cloning to harvest parts from.

Genetic manipulation is a different thing altogether and also with ethical issues. I think that gene manipulation would be more accepted in general. So humans want to see it as the next stage of evolution and others fear. Enhancement by chips or implants may offer options but the ethical aspects will still be there.

Nanobots was promoted a  means of maintaining the human body so there are several potential means for the maintenance of health and all of them have ethical considerations.

Personally I have more reservation over cloning than the other two examples.

jmccr8

[Mr Walker]

13 hours ago, danydandan said:

I was listening to a debate on the radio earlier today regarding the ethics of genetic engineering on humans.

The debate swung back and forth, but it got me thinking what religious minded people thought of the ethics of genetic engineering in humans.

My wife is an Evangelical Christian, she was siding on the, it's against nature or God's will. So I asked a simple question. If there was a way we could ensure our two daughters never get sick would you do it or would you let either of them get sick, possibly die, because it's Gods will?

This changed her mind, I think every parent would love to ensure their children never get sick.

I know genetic engineering is in it's infancy and testing is obviously troublesome as we can't predict what the changes might do in the long run. But if it was proven your children wouldn't get cancer, Parkinson's, ALS, Hutchinson etc etc would religious people allow genetic engineering to be carried out on the children?

Not only allow it,  i would insist on it and mortgage my life to be able to afford it. 

it is already happening.  Cells are being weaponised so that they fight a cancer  !00% success rate from the dozen or so cases so far  and almost immediate effect even on those almost dying.

Once reintroduced into the body that patient is permanently  "immunised " from ever getting that  cancer .  Costs about 100000 dollars and is only available in america so far  

[danydandan]

2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Not only allow it,  i would insist on it and mortgage my life to be able to afford it. 

it is already happening.  Cells are being weaponised so that they fight a cancer  !00% success rate from the dozen or so cases so far  and almost immediate effect even on those almost dying.

Once reintroduced into the body that patient is permanently  "immunised " from ever getting that  cancer .  Costs about 100000 dollars and is only available in america so far  

Link please?

[Mr Walker]

53 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Link please?

Actually heard it on ABC  (Australian broadcasting commission) radio, about 2 months ago,   from a specialist in the area who explained the process.  Cells are taken from  the body then genetically manipulated in the laboratory  to become  "weaponised "  so that  they attack cancer cells.  It was he who gave the details i outlined  I think he was an Australian scientist or medical specialist  who was working in America and one of his patients  (a woman almost dead form cancer ) was completely  cured.  as were  all the limited number of patients so far treated, cleared of cancer.    

A quick google shows these related articles 

The last example (Mrs Van Gilder)  sounds a bit like the patient i heard described on the radio. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-million-dollar-cancer-treatment-no-one-knows-how-to-pay-for-1524740401

The therapies deliver new genes or genetically altered cells to tackle some of the hardest-to-treat diseases, including in children. They come at a high price: Novartis AG listed its newly approved cell therapy for cancer at $475,000, while Gilead Sciences Inc. priced its rival drug at $373,000.

 

One of the first genetics-based treatments was Gilead’s lymphoma drug Yescarta, approved last October for use in patients who have failed other drugs. Yescarta is a form of cell therapy known as CAR-T, for chimeric antigen receptor T-cells. It uses a patient’s own immune cells, which are extracted, modified in a lab and then put back into the patient where they hunt down and attack cancer.

 

Kathryn VanGilder, a retired teacher from Fairmont, W.Va., who is on Medicare, says she struggled to find a hospital to provide treatment, partly because of uncertain reimbursements.

 

https://www.theverge.com/a/verge-2021/jennifer-doudna-crispr-gene-editing-healthcare

 

You may have heard of the gene-editing technique CRISPR-cas9, often simply called CRISPR. Introduced in 2012, CRISPR works like a pair of scissors to cut DNA, inserting or reordering bits of genetic code with remarkable, science-fiction-like results: CRISPR can help create mosquitoes that don’t transmit malaria, or be used to breed unusually muscular beagles, or even create mini pigs. In humans, the technology is being tested to battle cancer — by removing patients’ immune cells, editing them, and reinserting the weaponized cells into the body to hunt cancer.

 

 

The James Cancer Center at Ohio State University eventually gave her Yescarta in January, Ms. VanGilder says, after she got U.S. Sen. Joseph Manchin’s help in getting a letter from a Medicare contractor stating it would review payment after treatment. The hospital said it treated Ms. VanGilder even though Medicare won’t cover all of its costs.

“In the six weeks I waited,” says Ms. VanGilder, 66, a small tumor in one lymph node “had spread all through my abdomen and throat.” She says her latest tests showed the cancer was eliminated.

 

https://www.curetoday.com/publications/cure/2018/hematology-1-2018/building-an-army-to-fight-blood-cancer

 

“This is a new way to treat leukemia that is different from anything we’ve used before,” says Ted Laetsch, M.D., Carolina’s doctor and an assistant professor of pediatrics at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas.

First, Laetsch explains, doctors take a blood sample and isolate the white blood cells. In the lab, they use a highly modified form of the virus that causes HIV to insert a new gene that makes the patient’s T cells. This gene causes T cells to attack CD19, a particular marker on the surface of B cells, another type of white blood cell that turns malignant in leukemia.

Meanwhile, the patient usually goes through some chemotherapy to make room for the edited T cells, which are dripped back into the circulatory system. If all goes well, these chimeric T cells multiply into an advancing army that takes out all the cancerous B cells by bursting their cell membranes, putting the patient into remission.

In small, early studies, as many as 80 to 100 percent of patients responded to CAR-T cell treatment, leading the FDA to award breakthrough status to CAR-T treatments for B cell malignancies such as ALL and chronic lymphocytic leukemia, as well as some types of lymphoma.

 

Edited April 29, 2018 by Mr Walker

[danydandan]

37 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Actually heard it on ABC  (Australian broadcasting commission) radio, about 2 months ago,   from a specialist in the area who explained the process.  Cells are taken from  the body then genetically manipulated in the laboratory  to become  "weaponised "  so that  they attack cancer cells.  It was he who gave the details i outlined  I think he was an Australian scientist or medical specialist  who was working in America and one of his patients  (a woman almost dead form cancer ) was completely  cured.  as were  all the limited number of patients so far treated, cleared of cancer.    

A quick google shows these related articles 

The last example (Mrs Van Gilder)  sounds a bit like the patient i heard described on the radio. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-million-dollar-cancer-treatment-no-one-knows-how-to-pay-for-1524740401

The therapies deliver new genes or genetically altered cells to tackle some of the hardest-to-treat diseases, including in children. They come at a high price: Novartis AG listed its newly approved cell therapy for cancer at $475,000, while Gilead Sciences Inc. priced its rival drug at $373,000.

 

One of the first genetics-based treatments was Gilead’s lymphoma drug Yescarta, approved last October for use in patients who have failed other drugs. Yescarta is a form of cell therapy known as CAR-T, for chimeric antigen receptor T-cells. It uses a patient’s own immune cells, which are extracted, modified in a lab and then put back into the patient where they hunt down and attack cancer.

 

Kathryn VanGilder, a retired teacher from Fairmont, W.Va., who is on Medicare, says she struggled to find a hospital to provide treatment, partly because of uncertain reimbursements.

 

https://www.theverge.com/a/verge-2021/jennifer-doudna-crispr-gene-editing-healthcare

 

You may have heard of the gene-editing technique CRISPR-cas9, often simply called CRISPR. Introduced in 2012, CRISPR works like a pair of scissors to cut DNA, inserting or reordering bits of genetic code with remarkable, science-fiction-like results: CRISPR can help create mosquitoes that don’t transmit malaria, or be used to breed unusually muscular beagles, or even create mini pigs. In humans, the technology is being tested to battle cancer — by removing patients’ immune cells, editing them, and reinserting the weaponized cells into the body to hunt cancer.

 

 

The James Cancer Center at Ohio State University eventually gave her Yescarta in January, Ms. VanGilder says, after she got U.S. Sen. Joseph Manchin’s help in getting a letter from a Medicare contractor stating it would review payment after treatment. The hospital said it treated Ms. VanGilder even though Medicare won’t cover all of its costs.

“In the six weeks I waited,” says Ms. VanGilder, 66, a small tumor in one lymph node “had spread all through my abdomen and throat.” She says her latest tests showed the cancer was eliminated.

 

https://www.curetoday.com/publications/cure/2018/hematology-1-2018/building-an-army-to-fight-blood-cancer

 

“This is a new way to treat leukemia that is different from anything we’ve used before,” says Ted Laetsch, M.D., Carolina’s doctor and an assistant professor of pediatrics at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas.

First, Laetsch explains, doctors take a blood sample and isolate the white blood cells. In the lab, they use a highly modified form of the virus that causes HIV to insert a new gene that makes the patient’s T cells. This gene causes T cells to attack CD19, a particular marker on the surface of B cells, another type of white blood cell that turns malignant in leukemia.

Meanwhile, the patient usually goes through some chemotherapy to make room for the edited T cells, which are dripped back into the circulatory system. If all goes well, these chimeric T cells multiply into an advancing army that takes out all the cancerous B cells by bursting their cell membranes, putting the patient into remission.

In small, early studies, as many as 80 to 100 percent of patients responded to CAR-T cell treatment, leading the FDA to award breakthrough status to CAR-T treatments for B cell malignancies such as ALL and chronic lymphocytic leukemia, as well as some types of lymphoma.

 

Wish I knew about that when I was diagnosed with cancer. Also I wish I could afford it

[danydandan]

38 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Actually heard it on ABC  (Australian broadcasting commission) radio, about 2 months ago,   from a specialist in the area who explained the process.  Cells are taken from  the body then genetically manipulated in the laboratory  to become  "weaponised "  so that  they attack cancer cells.  It was he who gave the details i outlined  I think he was an Australian scientist or medical specialist  who was working in America and one of his patients  (a woman almost dead form cancer ) was completely  cured.  as were  all the limited number of patients so far treated, cleared of cancer.    

A quick google shows these related articles 

The last example (Mrs Van Gilder)  sounds a bit like the patient i heard described on the radio. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-million-dollar-cancer-treatment-no-one-knows-how-to-pay-for-1524740401

The therapies deliver new genes or genetically altered cells to tackle some of the hardest-to-treat diseases, including in children. They come at a high price: Novartis AG listed its newly approved cell therapy for cancer at $475,000, while Gilead Sciences Inc. priced its rival drug at $373,000.

 

One of the first genetics-based treatments was Gilead’s lymphoma drug Yescarta, approved last October for use in patients who have failed other drugs. Yescarta is a form of cell therapy known as CAR-T, for chimeric antigen receptor T-cells. It uses a patient’s own immune cells, which are extracted, modified in a lab and then put back into the patient where they hunt down and attack cancer.

 

Kathryn VanGilder, a retired teacher from Fairmont, W.Va., who is on Medicare, says she struggled to find a hospital to provide treatment, partly because of uncertain reimbursements.

 

https://www.theverge.com/a/verge-2021/jennifer-doudna-crispr-gene-editing-healthcare

 

You may have heard of the gene-editing technique CRISPR-cas9, often simply called CRISPR. Introduced in 2012, CRISPR works like a pair of scissors to cut DNA, inserting or reordering bits of genetic code with remarkable, science-fiction-like results: CRISPR can help create mosquitoes that don’t transmit malaria, or be used to breed unusually muscular beagles, or even create mini pigs. In humans, the technology is being tested to battle cancer — by removing patients’ immune cells, editing them, and reinserting the weaponized cells into the body to hunt cancer.

 

 

The James Cancer Center at Ohio State University eventually gave her Yescarta in January, Ms. VanGilder says, after she got U.S. Sen. Joseph Manchin’s help in getting a letter from a Medicare contractor stating it would review payment after treatment. The hospital said it treated Ms. VanGilder even though Medicare won’t cover all of its costs.

“In the six weeks I waited,” says Ms. VanGilder, 66, a small tumor in one lymph node “had spread all through my abdomen and throat.” She says her latest tests showed the cancer was eliminated.

 

https://www.curetoday.com/publications/cure/2018/hematology-1-2018/building-an-army-to-fight-blood-cancer

 

“This is a new way to treat leukemia that is different from anything we’ve used before,” says Ted Laetsch, M.D., Carolina’s doctor and an assistant professor of pediatrics at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas.

First, Laetsch explains, doctors take a blood sample and isolate the white blood cells. In the lab, they use a highly modified form of the virus that causes HIV to insert a new gene that makes the patient’s T cells. This gene causes T cells to attack CD19, a particular marker on the surface of B cells, another type of white blood cell that turns malignant in leukemia.

Meanwhile, the patient usually goes through some chemotherapy to make room for the edited T cells, which are dripped back into the circulatory system. If all goes well, these chimeric T cells multiply into an advancing army that takes out all the cancerous B cells by bursting their cell membranes, putting the patient into remission.

In small, early studies, as many as 80 to 100 percent of patients responded to CAR-T cell treatment, leading the FDA to award breakthrough status to CAR-T treatments for B cell malignancies such as ALL and chronic lymphocytic leukemia, as well as some types of lymphoma.

 

Wish I knew about that when I was diagnosed with cancer. Also I wish I could afford it

[Mr Walker]

38 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Wish I knew about that when I was diagnosed with cancer. Also I wish I could afford it

Yes I was bit off with the costs, which range up to 1 million dollars. They will come down a lot as it becomes more widespread.  It has really only been proven so successful, and got all the authorisations and approvals in the last 12 months and still is not covered by a lot of health insurances in the US The new cancer vaccine developed in Australia is predicted to wipe out cervical cancer in Australia within another generation and that is being provided free to school aged males and females in Australia  Several strains of meningococcal disease are now also covered by free vaccines My wife and i just had our free flu vaccines. Gotta love living in Australia   

Edited April 29, 2018 by Mr Walker

[Davros of Skaro]

Keep in mind addiction (both thoughts & drugs) is an heredity trait.

 

[JamieDarke]

Many years ago organ transplants were considered unethical yet now they save many lives. Genetic Engineering will be old hat sooner than later.

[Podo]

I would 100% edit my children's genes. We, as a species, have one purpose: survive. If we can do something, such as genemodding, that will help us to survive, then we must do so. To rage against the betterment of humanity is idiocy. If we can be better, we must be better. Humans are weak, let's make them strong.

[Grandpa Greenman]

If we can prevent devastating genetic diseases why not? As long as we understand some of nature genetic foibles, have survival reasons when they are expressed in another form. 

[Davros of Skaro]

Well right now we can fertilize for example 5 eggs outside the womb. When the cells divide take a sample of each then see which ones do not have a genetic disease. Then implant the choicest one back in the womb.

It's expensive, but it's an upper hand to leaving it up to nature.

[Relam]

There is a movie on that theme Godsend.

I think this genetic engineering to make children perfect is against law of nature. We can do it for a while but nature will always kick us on the knees..

[psyche101]

On 4/29/2018 at 3:06 PM, Mr Walker said:

Not only allow it,  i would insist on it and mortgage my life to be able to afford it. 

it is already happening.  Cells are being weaponised so that they fight a cancer  !00% success rate from the dozen or so cases so far  and almost immediate effect even on those almost dying.

Once reintroduced into the body that patient is permanently  "immunised " from ever getting that  cancer .  Costs about 100000 dollars and is only available in america so far  

That's really fascinating, are you sure those sources are accurate though? This link states its a 20% response rate, although those who respond do so impressively. 

“When (immunotherapy) works, it works,” Luke said.  For most cancers, the response rate is about 20 percent, but the patients who do respond to immunotherapy, do really well, he said. “We’re beginning to see patients from early clinical trials — those who started therapy four or five years ago and have been off treatment for a year or more — without a recurrence.”

 

https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/immunotherapy-articles/immunotherapy-using-the-bodys-immune-system-to-fight-cancer

 

Don't get me wrong, if there is a cure for cancer, that's amazing, astounding but medical discoveries I find are often exaggerated by the press. 

In any case thanks for posting that, it's more than interesting. 

Edited May 17, 2018 by psyche101

[psyche101]

On 4/29/2018 at 6:53 PM, danydandan said:

Wish I knew about that when I was diagnosed with cancer. Also I wish I could afford it

What's going on there big fella? Got it under control now I hope? 

[danydandan]

8 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

What's going on there big fella? Got it under control now I hope? 

Still recovering, six months after a massive operation to remove a tumor from my esophagus. Was diagnosed a year ago, went through chemo and radiation treatments prior to surgery. By all accounts the surgery is the biggest one you can have. Was in theater for 16 hours, stopped breathing for a few minutes, was in ICU for 2 weeks. Had severe vomiting for three months non stop. All the while my wife was pregnant and looking after our 1 year old at the time..

So yeah I have been through hell and unfortunately brought my family with me. But I'm on the mend, vomiting has subsided I'm working two days a week and generally doing good.

[Mr Walker]

55 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

That's really fascinating, are you sure those sources are accurate though? This link states its a 20% response rate, although those who respond do so impressively. 

“When (immunotherapy) works, it works,” Luke said.  For most cancers, the response rate is about 20 percent, but the patients who do respond to immunotherapy, do really well, he said. “We’re beginning to see patients from early clinical trials — those who started therapy four or five years ago and have been off treatment for a year or more — without a recurrence.”

 

https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/immunotherapy-articles/immunotherapy-using-the-bodys-immune-system-to-fight-cancer

 

Don't get me wrong, if there is a cure for cancer, that's amazing, astounding but medical discoveries I find are often exaggerated by the press. 

In any case thanks for posting that, it's more than interesting. 

ALL i know is from  the sources plus what the bloke said on the radio He said 100% success rate and tha this prevented cancer from ever reoccuring  But that might have been in his specific area  The source above included this;

In small, early studies, as many as 80 to 100 percent of patients responded to CAR-T cell treatment, leading the FDA to award breakthrough status to CAR-T treatments for B cell malignancies such as ALL and chronic lymphocytic leukemia, as well as some types of lymphoma.

This is so new that it has only been tried on about a dozen patients  The amazing thing is that these are all terminal patients in the last phases of advanced cancer and were given this very new and expensive treatment only because all other treatments had failed.

 Yet, almost immediately,  the cancer begins to diminish and is quickly eradicated 

This is not immunotherapy, which has been used for many years.

It is " genetically  " altering the body's own cells, in a way which weaponises them, and gives the the abilty to track down and kill the body's, cancer cells. 

it appears to have been researched, developed and trialed for a few years, but was only commercially  introduced last year and has only been used in about the last 12 months  on a handful of patients, almost all in the USA.  

 

Thursday 31 August 2017

Opening a new era in cancer care, US health officials have approved a breakthrough treatment that genetically engineers patients' own blood cells into an army of assassins to seek and destroy childhood leukaemia. 

The Food and Drug Administration called the approval historic, the first gene therapy to hit the US market. Made from scratch for every patient, it's one of a wave of “living drugs” under development to fight additional blood cancers and other tumours, too. 

Novartis Pharmaceuticals set the price for its one-time infusion of so-called “CAR-T cells” at $475,000, but said there would be no charge for patients who didn't show a response within a month.

 

This is a brand new way of treating cancer,” said Dr Stephan Grupp of Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, who treated the first child with CAR-T cell therapy — a girl who'd been near death but now is cancer-free for five years and counting. “That's enormously exciting.” 

CAR-T treatment uses gene therapy techniques not to fix disease-causing genes but to turbocharge T cells, immune system soldiers that cancer too often can evade. Researchers filter those cells from a patient's blood, reprogramme them to harbour a “chimeric antigen receptor” or CAR that zeroes in on cancer, and grow hundreds of millions of copies. Returned to the patient, the revved-up cells can continue multiplying to fight disease for months or years. 

It's a completely different way to harness the immune system than popular immunotherapy drugs called “checkpoint inhibitors” that treat a variety of cancers by helping the body's natural T cells better spot tumours. CAR-T cell therapy gives patients stronger T cells to do that job. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/cancer-breakthrough-leukaemia-treatment-gene-therapy-immune-cells-tumours-us-fda-a7921296.html

Edited May 17, 2018 by Mr Walker

[Mr Walker]

39 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Still recovering, six months after a massive operation to remove a tumor from my esophagus. Was diagnosed a year ago, went through chemo and radiation treatments prior to surgery. By all accounts the surgery is the biggest one you can have. Was in theater for 16 hours, stopped breathing for a few minutes, was in ICU for 2 weeks. Had severe vomiting for three months non stop. All the while my wife was pregnant and looking after our 1 year old at the time..

So yeah I have been through hell and unfortunately brought my family with me. But I'm on the mend, vomiting has subsided I'm working two days a week and generally doing good.

All the very best.

Such a thing has huge impacts on a person's whole life, both physical and psychological, and often very negatively,  but it can also  be a very empowering, liberating, and life affirming; bringing out strengths and resilience you never knew you had. 

[danydandan]

6 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

All the very best.

Such a thing has huge impacts on a person's whole life, both physical and psychological, and often very negatively,  but it can also  be a very empowering, liberating, and life affirming; bringing out strengths and resilience you never knew you had. 

I can attest to that.

Funny word attest,

[psyche101]

47 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Still recovering, six months after a massive operation to remove a tumor from my esophagus. Was diagnosed a year ago, went through chemo and radiation treatments prior to surgery. By all accounts the surgery is the biggest one you can have. Was in theater for 16 hours, stopped breathing for a few minutes, was in ICU for 2 weeks. Had severe vomiting for three months non stop. All the while my wife was pregnant and looking after our 1 year old at the time..

So yeah I have been through hell and unfortunately brought my family with me. But I'm on the mend, vomiting has subsided I'm working two days a week and generally doing good.

I'm really glad to hear things are moving in a positive direction, sounds like a great partner in your corner there. You're obviously a very intelligent person, the world could use more people like you. Good to hear you'll be sticking around. All the best. 

[psyche101]

1 minute ago, danydandan said:

I can attest to that.

Funny word attest,

I reckon any word sounds really funny and wierd if you say it really fast for 30 seconds 

Don't know why that is, but I find it so

[danydandan]

5 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I reckon any word sounds really funny and wierd if you say it really fast for 30 seconds 

Don't know why that is, but I find it so

I just meant it has two very different meanings. One is to enrol in the army and the other is to provide clear evidence of something.

Yeap I'm lucky to have the wife I do, and kids I have. #blessed.

[Mr Walker]

9 minutes ago, danydandan said:

I just meant it has two very different meanings. One is to enrol in the army and the other is to provide clear evidence of something.

Yeap I'm lucky to have the wife I do, and kids I have. #blessed.

Not so different actually. Originally attest didn't  just  mean giving evidence but actually doing something to prove a point.   This is similar to attesting by joining the military.

 

attest

əˈtɛst/

verb

 

1. 1.

   provide or serve as clear evidence of.

   "his status is attested by his becoming an alderman"

    
2. 2.

   historical

   enrol as ready for military service.

   "unfortunately for him, he attested"

    

   attest (prove)  

   Definition:

   to provide evidence for; to stand as proof of; to show by one's behavior, attitude, or external attributes

    

   And yes. A good wife and kids (however you define good)  is one of life's greatest blessings.    Apparently,"bad" ones can be one of life's greatest curses