Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
UM-Bot

Hiroshima bomb was deadlier than believed

18 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

 
Not A Rockstar

As atrocities go, this ranks on the top of my list for barbarous war actions, just above the first uses of gas in WW1 in the trenches.

However, the one positive at all from this sort of thing is that we have seen the horror it is and perhaps this has fueled a greater effort to never escalate to that point again. I can hope.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Taun
49 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

As atrocities go, this ranks on the top of my list for barbarous war actions, just above the first uses of gas in WW1 in the trenches.

However, the one positive at all from this sort of thing is that we have seen the horror it is and perhaps this has fueled a greater effort to never escalate to that point again. I can hope.

My list of atrocities is headed with places and events like Auschwitz, The rape of Nanking, Imperial Japanese Medical Unit 731, The Mongol Invasions and the Hurtgen Forest massacre - but I guess we all have our lists...

As horrible as the A-bombings were, they were not as horrific as the WWII fire bombings of Tokyo, Coventry and Dresden...

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not A Rockstar

I guess we do. 

There were incidents in the Korean War we could debate as well. I consider Auschwitz and similar done away from direct combat to be more akin to war crimes versus just warfare.

We have learned enough, I pray with all of me, to avoid a WW3

It would buy us time to learn more about being humane to each other, perhaps.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DanL

Tens of thousands died so that millions could live. A regular invasion of The Japan mainland would have cost both sides hundreds of thousands of casualties. Those two bombs brought home that war was a horror that could not be continued to even the untouchable imperial leadership.

Only someone that has never seen the ravages of war would foolishly believe that a death by nuclear bomb is any worse than death from any other act of war. A corpse is no deader from one bomb than if it was from a thousand bombs. WAR is an atrocity but we didn't start that war. By that point we were not willing to sacrifice maybe a hundred thousand American lives so some enemy casualties and deaths would be "nicer". No regrets no apologies. If you have never had to see your family members come home in pieces with their very souls in tatters you have no understanding. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not A Rockstar
11 minutes ago, DanL said:

Tens of thousands died so that millions could live. A regular invasion of The Japan mainland would have cost both sides hundreds of thousands of casualties. Those two bombs brought home that war was a horror that could not be continued to even the untouchable imperial leadership.

Only someone that has never seen the ravages of war would foolishly believe that a death by nuclear bomb is any worse than death from any other act of war. A corpse is no deader from one bomb than if it was from a thousand bombs. WAR is an atrocity but we didn't start that war. By that point we were not willing to sacrifice maybe a hundred thousand American lives so some enemy casualties and deaths would be "nicer". No regrets no apologies. If you have never had to see your family members come home in pieces with their very souls in tatters you have no understanding. 

Spare me your star spangled melodrama. My Father was in Vietnam. I am a Veteran of Desert Storm with PTSD and my own soul in tatters. I have carried body parts of friends and smelled the stench of others burning from a blast. I can trace my ancestry back through Veterans of every major war we have been in in the USA. I have a photo on my desk of one who was in the Civil War. You are not posting to a puss who thinks "nice" or dodged the ugly. I am a warrior to the bone.

Death is death and I know all about the reasons they dropped the bombs on Hiroshima. It doesn't make it somehow less of an atrocity that mankind as a whole did this to mankind.

It is ALL wrong of us and regrettable, in a long line of regrets for us as a race and we need to do better going forward. 

If not, then I will gear up again and go out, but, I have no fantasy that it is ever a grand thing to kill or be killed, simply necessary at times in an imperfect world.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DanL

WAR is an atrocity. Those two bombs ended it. To let it continue would have been unforgivable. The horror of the bombs is what made them effective. We could have just as easily wiped those two town off the face of the planet with conventional bombs but that wouldn't have done the job of stopping the killing. The conventional invasion of Japan would have killed hundreds of thousands easily and maybe not left a country that would have been able to recover. After the war we helped them rebuild and after 6 years we left them in peace. Germany is still recovering. What was done to Germany after both wars was a true cruelty. We learned after the misfortune following WW1 not to destroy a country down to nothing. The Germans were victimized by the Russians and again by the French. Tell me would you have wanted to send your sons to die in a war that we could end without a single American death because it would be mean to harm the enemy. Sorry but at the time Americans were tired of war and there was not a lot of sympathy available for the Japanese. Back then we fought wars to end them. Now we can't win because we are worried that it might make an enemy sad. Both Bushs were masters at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Most of us old farts don't see that as an admirable thing. If we are not going to fight to win we need to STOP fighting other people's wars. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
and then
9 hours ago, Not A Rockstar said:

Spare me your star spangled melodrama. My Father was in Vietnam. I am a Veteran of Desert Storm with PTSD and my own soul in tatters. I have carried body parts of friends and smelled the stench of others burning from a blast. I can trace my ancestry back through Veterans of every major war we have been in in the USA. I have a photo on my desk of one who was in the Civil War. You are not posting to a puss who thinks "nice" or dodged the ugly. I am a warrior to the bone.

Death is death and I know all about the reasons they dropped the bombs on Hiroshima. It doesn't make it somehow less of an atrocity that mankind as a whole did this to mankind.

It is ALL wrong of us and regrettable, in a long line of regrets for us as a race and we need to do better going forward. 

If not, then I will gear up again and go out, but, I have no fantasy that it is ever a grand thing to kill or be killed, simply necessary at times in an imperfect world.

You seem to be arguing that it would have been better to have a longer conflict with many times the carnage and suffering just so we could have avoided the use of these weapons.  Surely, this is not what you meant?  FTR, the record for the worst bombing of humankind was OPERATION MEETINGHOUSE.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo     Dead is dead and when my time comes, I pray for the quickest passing possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not A Rockstar
4 minutes ago, and then said:

You seem to be arguing that it would have been better to have a longer conflict with many times the carnage and suffering just so we could have avoided the use of these weapons.  Surely, this is not what you meant?  FTR, the record for the worst bombing of humankind was OPERATION MEETINGHOUSE.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo     Dead is dead and when my time comes, I pray for the quickest passing possible.

Don't project. I have plainly stated that what we ALL do in war has been wrong and we need to find better ways. Dropping the bombs may have been expedient, and the fastest way to shorten a war, but this does not make the action suddenly not an atrocity and the power of current nukes vastly exceeds it. I am hoping we have learned better, having seen it once there, and do not ever go that way again.

Lectures to the contrary do not change my opinion. Claims that I am saying we should have massacred more soldiers rather than do it when there is utterly no quote to that effect above here, notwithstanding.

I have gone to war, and I would again but I think it is the proof of failure whenever we stoop to such a thing and I remain standing on the fact I feel creating the nuke, and dropping one was the worst atrocity on MY list we have done, but, perhaps it will lead to never again.

MY opinion. Make up your own lists. 

 

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LV-426

To be honest, it's difficult to argue with either of you.

War is terrible. Man's inhumanity to man is terrible. Using such devastating weapons is terrible.

It's also true that use of the atomic bomb ended the war and likely saved many lives in the longterm, based on the bloody battles at Okinawa, Iwo Jima, etc.

Is there a lesson to be learned? Probably.

Will mankind learn it? Doubtful. Men have been seeking power and control over one another, and inventing new ways to kill each other for as long as we've existed.

Personally, I don't see that changing, as much as I'd like it to. It's in our chaotic nature.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not A Rockstar

Thank you @LV-426 . I have never said the bombs did not shorten a bad war and I have never said we need to be nicer in war. DanL is quite right that the politicians need to be air dropped into their next shindig to handle it versus sending our guys in with rules that leave them handcuffed. There are no rules on the frontline when the bullets are flying. Civs die. So sad, etc. War is a terrible thing. It is not "civil" for crying out loud. Prosecuting men for snapping or doing horrific things under horrific circumstances after the fact back here is wrong. Help them but remember you are who sent these kids in to hells you yourself have not faced (most politicos today crying about war crimes).

I can feel all of that and still also deeply feel we need to find better ways as a whole species. This is madness. Maybe if enough remember how awful and shocking Hiroshima was, and that nukes today make that a toy, even the craziest mo fo out there will pause and think and choose a better option than war.

This is my hope.

I am really not arguing with you guys, just I do not see why I cannot have my opinions about it and somehow feel I am being attacked as UnAmerican or too stupid to understand history and what actually happened the day the Enola took off. My Dad paid in Vietnam, I paid, I really hope we can all stop paying with our sanity and souls in another war. I really pray with all I have there is never ever a WW3. 

No more. 

But if they come, count me in.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
and then
4 hours ago, LV-426 said:

To be honest, it's difficult to argue with either of you.

War is terrible. Man's inhumanity to man is terrible. Using such devastating weapons is terrible.

It's also true that use of the atomic bomb ended the war and likely saved many lives in the longterm, based on the bloody battles at Okinawa, Iwo Jima, etc.

Is there a lesson to be learned? Probably.

Will mankind learn it? Doubtful. Men have been seeking power and control over one another, and inventing new ways to kill each other for as long as we've existed.

Personally, I don't see that changing, as much as I'd like it to. It's in our chaotic nature.

Frankly, he seems to just have a chip on his shoulder and is arguing something metaphysical or spiritual about man's nature.  I don't disagree that human beings have an unlimited propensity for brutality.  Unlike him, I believe that wars will only end when we have actually learned the lesson in such horrific depth that we recognize we nearly ENDED our species.  That war will begin with nukes and it IS coming.  Of that, I have no doubt.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ChaosRose

I remember learning about this in school and they didn't seem to be whitewashing it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gecks
On 02/05/2018 at 3:29 AM, Taun said:

My list of atrocities is headed with places and events like Auschwitz, The rape of Nanking, Imperial Japanese Medical Unit 731, The Mongol Invasions and the Hurtgen Forest massacre - but I guess we all have our lists...

As horrible as the A-bombings were, they were not as horrific as the WWII fire bombings of Tokyo, Coventry and Dresden...

Ive been interested and studied the history of WWII for many years but had never heard of medical unit 731 before. Its enough to make you feel sick to your soul. War is one thing right or not. But It saddens me the atrocities human beings can commit against others. 

Thanks for sharing mate

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Black Monk
On 01/05/2018 at 5:34 PM, Not A Rockstar said:

As atrocities go, this ranks on the top of my list for barbarous war actions

Ended the war.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
third_eye
2 minutes ago, Black Monk said:

Ended the war.

Started the Nuclear Arms Race ... Cold War ... Korean War ... Vietnam War ... Khmer Rouge ... Saddam Hussein ... Idi Amin ... Cuba ... Nicaragua ... Colombia ... Venezuela ... Falklands ...Afghanistan / Taliban ... Iran - Iraq conflict ... Balkan conflict ... greater Middle East conflict ... Libya ... Kuwait ... North and Central Africa ... ( continuing to the present )

~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Noteverythingisaconspiracy

People have to put it in context when talking about the bombings. They happened in the bloodiest conflict ever and they helped to end it. Can you imagine the reaction if it came out that the US had a means to end the war, yet choose not to use it ? 

The fact is that the nuclear bombs meant that the allies didn't have to go through with the planned invasion, thus saving hundred of thousands allied soldiers, and it gave the Japanese what was seen as an honourable way out.

Sure it led to the cold war and the arms race, but that is hindsight. In the context of the time it would have cost many more lives not to use it. Context is important when looking at history !

6 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Started the Nuclear Arms Race ... Cold War ... Korean War ... Vietnam War ... Khmer Rouge ... Saddam Hussein ... Idi Amin ... Cuba ... Nicaragua ... Colombia ... Venezuela ... Falklands ...Afghanistan / Taliban ... Iran - Iraq conflict ... Balkan conflict ... greater Middle East conflict ... Libya ... Kuwait ... North and Central Africa ... ( continuing to the present )

~

We had wars long before Hiroshima and they often reached a scale that have not happened after World War 2. We haven't had any direct wars beween the major powers since World War 2.

In the end it is quite likely that the use of nuclear weapons against Japan actually helped prevent their use afterwards, because they showed their effect better than any test would have done. How many nukes have been used after Nagasaki ? Answer: None.

I'm not saying that using nukes is good, I'm just saying that at the time it was the right thing to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
third_eye
Just now, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

I'm not saying that using nukes is good, I'm just saying that at the time it was the right thing to do.

Be that as it may, even when one considers that there are clearly contradictory revelations in regards to the 'what if' or the highly speculative 'it would' after the fact at the time, just taking it all in the present context, what I'm saying is that it hardly ended anything but in fact perpetuate much more if not worse, much less a War or Wars ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.