For or Against Leaving Iran Nuke Deal

[Only_]

2 hours ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

I have seen no evidence, beyond the risible propaganda efforts of Israel's Benjamin "Bibi" Netanyahu, that they have. What evidence do you have that they have been? 

[Merc14]

2 hours ago, RAyMO said:

so now we know what trump is not going to do. What plan does he have for the middle east?

Well he has Israel, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the UAE cooperating at an unprecedented level.  Israel now has overflight rights in Saudi.  They all agree on one thing, Iran is an existential threat.  The deal was made in the White House.  How's that for only one and a couple months in office? 

[Only_]

4 hours ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

I have seen no evidence, beyond the risible propaganda efforts of Israel's Benjamin "Bibi" Netanyahu, that they have. What evidence do you have that they have been? 

Not only is there no evidence but Iran is also keeping all of it's commitments under the deal according to IAEA.

Quote

IAEA says Iran keeping ‘nuclear-related commitments’ under deal

'VIENNA, Austria — The UN nuclear watchdog confirmed Wednesday Iran is implementing “nuclear-related commitments” under its deal with world powers, a day after US President Donald Trump accused Tehran of lying about its nuclear ambitions.

“As of today, the IAEA can confirm that the nuclear-related commitments are being implemented by Iran,” Yukiya Amano, director-general of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), said in a statement''

https://www.timesofisrael.com/iaea-says-iran-keeping-nuclear-related-commitments-under-deal/

The deal isn't really the issue. Trump has decided to take an ideological stance against Iran, instead of a pragmatic one.

Edited May 9, 2018 by Clockwork_Spirit

[freetoroam]

Was watching the news today and some iranians were burning the American flag and some were saying...death to the Americans, and Europe want to do deals with these barbaric country? 

This is a warning sign of what they are prepared to do if they do not get their own way, setting flags on fire, but much worse....threatening death.

[Merc14]

15 minutes ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

Not only is there no evidence but Iran is also keeping all of it's commitments under the deal according to IAEA.

How do you know this?  The inspectors must give almost a month of warning before showing up and they have no access to any military bases.  The agreement is full of holes and was nothing more than a feather in Obama's cap because the willing media got sucked  in, easily.  I guess so di d you, huh?    Don't believe me?   Here is your guy saying so https://nypost.com/2016/05/05/playing-the-press-and-the-public-for-chumps-to-sell-the-iran-deal/

15 minutes ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

The deal isn't really the issue. Trump has decided to take an ideological stance against Iran, instead of a pragmatic one.

Pragmatic equals giving Iran the bomb and hundreds of billions of dollars?   Strange reality you live in.  Leftist give-up-itus I guess, saw the same thing the entire cold war.

[acidhead]

2 hours ago, freetoroam said:

Was watching the news today and some iranians were burning the American flag and some were saying...death to the Americans, and Europe want to do deals with these barbaric country? 

This is a warning sign of what they are prepared to do if they do not get their own way, setting flags on fire, but much worse....threatening death.

Well.. flag burning and chants of death to the USA...   it's a perfectly rational response to having your nuke plans.... Nuked!

[Only_]

4 hours ago, Merc14 said:

 

Pragmatic equals giving Iran the bomb and hundreds of billions of dollars?   Strange reality you live in.  Leftist give-up-itus I guess, saw the same thing the entire cold war.

Pragmatic equals having mechanisms in place to monitor Iran's nuclear program. That's what the IAEA does. Thanks to ''Obama's deal'', Iran is subject to the world's most robust nuclear verification regime. Remove that and you are left to trust supposedly accurate intelligence. If not pure speculation.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Clockwork_Spirit

[pallidin]

I would trust Iran about as far as a camel turd dropping on the desert.

Iran is radical Islam, and dangerous.

[RavenHawk]

18 minutes ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

Pragmatic equals having mechanisms in place to monitor Iran's nuclear program. 

Which we don’t have.  They only have access to non-military sites.  Don’t you think that if Iran is developing a bomb, it’s not going to be in a civilian facility?

 

That's what the IAEA does.

That is what they are capable of doing but if they don’t have unfettered access, they can’t do what they do.

 

Thanks to ''Obama's deal'', Iran is subject to the world's most robust nuclear verification regime.

No, they are not.  It’s wishful thinking. 

 

Remove that and you are left to trust supposedly accurate intelligence. If not pure speculation.

And you are left with no difference than before except willfully being blind to the facts.  To believe in make-believe.  This is the deal of someone who was full of themselves.  The exclamation mark on the Emperor’s new clothes. 

[RavenHawk]

54 minutes ago, pallidin said:

Iran is radical Islam, and dangerous.

And so are the Sunnis.  It’s just that the Sunnis are our radicals.  That’s why I was rooting for ISIS.  If they could have taken out Assad, Iran would be in a weaker position.  Then to deal with ISIS, Qatar just cuts their support.  If ISIS’ actual goal wasn’t Assad, then Israel would have faced attacks.  Unbelievably, that was pretty much a quiet front.

[acidhead]

1 hour ago, Brother_Spirit said:

Pragmatic equals having mechanisms in place to monitor Iran's nuclear program. That's what the IAEA does. Thanks to ''Obama's deal'', Iran is subject to the world's most robust nuclear verification regime. Remove that and you are left to trust supposedly accurate intelligence. If not pure speculation.

Just curious... Why do you trust this Iranian government,  who burned the American flag today.. in their own legislative building.. with chants of "death to America" to continue on with a nuclear program???

Seriously!!

Why are you defending this???

[pallidin]

We have a serious problem with Iran.

The entire World had a serious problem.

They sponsor world-wide terrorism in the name of radical Islam; in effort to convert every nation to Sharia law, or else destroy them (Death to Israel, Death to America)

These issues, my dear friends, are very serious.

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by pallidin

[Only_]

23 minutes ago, pallidin said:

We have a serious problem with Iran.

The entire World had a serious problem.

They sponsor world-wide terrorism in the name of radical Islam; in effort to convert every nation to Sharia law, or else destroy them (Death to Israel, Death to America)

These issues, my dear friends, are very serious.

 

[Seti42]

54 minutes ago, pallidin said:

We have a serious problem with Iran.

The entire World had a serious problem.

They sponsor world-wide terrorism in the name of radical Islam; in effort to convert every nation to Sharia law, or else destroy them (Death to Israel, Death to America)

These issues, my dear friends, are very serious.

Yes, it is serious. But you have Iran confused with Saudi Arabia.

54 minutes ago, pallidin said:

 

 

[RoofGardener]

6 hours ago, Brother_Spirit said:

Not only is there no evidence but Iran is also keeping all of it's commitments under the deal according to IAEA.

The deal isn't really the issue. Trump has decided to take an ideological stance against Iran, instead of a pragmatic one.

Hmm.... Britain took a "pragmatic" stance at Munich in 1938 .. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement It led to World War 2

The US and Europe took a "pragmatic" approach to the Soviet Union, allowing hundreds of millions of people to languish in an authoritarian fascist state, and putting the world in the shadow of nuclear war. 

Britain took an "ideological" stance over the Falklands in 1982 - and there has been peace ever since. Ronald Reagan led a group of "ideologues" who set in course a sequence of actions that pushed the Soviet Union into collapse. 

And President Trump has decided to take an ideological stance against Iran, instead of a pragmatic one. 

Hmmm  

[RoofGardener]

1 hour ago, pallidin said:

We have a serious problem with Iran.

The entire World had a serious problem.

They sponsor world-wide terrorism in the name of radical Islam; in effort to convert every nation to Sharia law, or else destroy them (Death to Israel, Death to America)

These issues, my dear friends, are very serious.

 

Umm... just to correct one detail Pallidin. Sharia law and/or the destruction of non-believing states is NOT radical Islam; it is mainstream ? 

[freetoroam]

Here is what is happening at the moment...do some of you really believe the USA are going to make deals wiith iran while these iranians are on the verge of an all out war with Israel? 

Quote

Isael and Iran lurched closer to an all out war in Syria on Thursday after Iranian forces allegedly fired rockets into the Golan Heights and Israel responded with some of its heaviest airstrikes in years.

 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/10/israel-fires-barrage-missiles-syria-accusing-iranian-forces/amp/

 

[+and-then]

11 hours ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

if they had, don't you think they might have some justification, seeing that Israel and its loyal poodle the United States of America have never missed an opportunity to declare that their agenda is to destroy it, or at the very least eradicate it as a significant regional power? Does the right to a deterrent or self defense not apply if a country has been decreed by Israel and America to be "mad" and "evil"? 

Thanks, Vlad!  I've been waiting for you - and Ex and a few others, to finally tell the truth about your feelings on the nuclear-armed Iran possibility becoming a reality.  I have always suspected and even predicted, that when Iran tested and denial was no longer possible, you'd shrug and say, big deal, they have every right to them.

[RAyMO]

I would take the collective judgement of the UK, French, German, Russian, Chinese governments over the current US administration on this issue. It will be interesting to see what cracks in friendships appear when the US imposes sanctions on European companies in the coming months.

[Phaeton80]

 

 

[Phaeton80]

Time for some comedy relief in these times of increasing tension between the USA and 'The Justice Friends' (Israel, SA, UAE et al) & 'The Axis of Evil'.. The Good Vs the Bad, and we will all be sitting in front of our 55 inch flatscreen TV's to watch the carnage ensue, and witness the Good saving the world from Evil.. while Trump - The Golden Spoon Raised Peoples Champion who ridiculed Obama for his foreign policy - Makes America Great Again. Yay!

Blaming Iran for supporting terrorism and inciting sectarian violence in the ME.. Can you believe it (Yes - We - Can!). The level of raging, psychotic hypocrisy is ab so lutely mindnumbing. The crazed rantings of an empire in decline.


 

“Are we still going to war with Iraq?” And he said, “Oh, it’s worse than that.” He reached over on his desk. He picked up a piece of paper. And he said, “I just got this down from upstairs” -- meaning the Secretary of Defense’s office -- “today.” And he said, “This is a memo that describes how we’re going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran.”

A good day to all.

Peace.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Phaeton80

[RoofGardener]

49 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

Time for some comedy relief in these times of increasing tension between the USA and 'The Justice Friends' (Israel, SA, UAE et al) & 'The Axis of Evil'.. The Good Vs the Bad, and we will all be sitting in front of our 55 inch flatscreen TV's to watch the carnage ensue, and witness the Good saving the world from Evil.. while Trump - The Golden Spoon Raised Peoples Champion who ridiculed Obama for his foreign policy - Makes America Great Again. Yay!

ROFLOFLOFL... there are some VERY dodgy entries in that list. In what way did the USA try to overthrow the government of Kuwait in 1991 ? Or is it referring to the government of Saddam Hussein, who had just invaded Kuwait ?  

There are several other dodgy entires as well. Iraq in 1991, for example ? They where bombed under a UN mandate to remove Saddam from Kuwait. China in 1946 ? (it was in a state of civil war, and the US went in to - successfully - repatriate Japanese and Korean nationals). I'd trust that list about as much as I would trust a Democrat Party computer network !  

(I'll grant you Guatemala, and I DO vaguely recall something about Vietnam. But apart from that it is misleading anti-Western anti-Capitalist propaganda, courtesy of the "Occupy London" swampies  ) 

Meanwhile.......here's Phaeoton80's blood pressure whenever President Trump is mentioned  

 

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by RoofGardener

[Merc14]

 

5 hours ago, Brother_Spirit said:

No, you are the one who is brainwashed.  You bought that garbage Obama's people were selling, and they admitted, laughingly, it was garbage (see link above).  You bought it just like the willing media and it was sham.   Brainwashed means you beliebve whatever the regime tells you and I was against that deal then just as I am against it now  That is the  opposite of being brainwashed, I read what they were doing and rejected it while people like you blindly applauded a sham.  Lok in the mirror whan you post that word.  

Edited May 10, 2018 by Merc14

[odas]

17 hours ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

dear lord, you're not still clamoring for Regime Change are you? Look what a success that policy has been wherever it's been tried. ( Sarcastic rolleyes just in case it wasn't clear.) The US had been trying for 35 years to Topple the Mullahs, and they hadn't succeeded yet. Now success was just around the corner was it, if only Obama hadn't signed this disastrous treaty? Do please try to get real. 

It was the perfect way to get rid of the mullahs in time by the iranien people which was bound to happen as we heard news about people demanding more rights. NOW, Trump did a favour to the mullahs, giving them even more reasons to crack down on its own people and continue to shout "death to america". How stupid does one have to be to that, unless there is something in for The Don?

 

[Merc14]

1 minute ago, odas said:

It was the perfect way to get rid of the mullahs in time by the iranien people which was bound to happen as we heard news about people demanding more rights. NOW, Trump did a favour to the mullahs, giving them even more reasons to crack down on its own people and continue to shout "death to america". How stupid does one have to be to that, unless there is something in for The Don?

 

How stupid does a person have to be to agree to a deal that guarantees the Iranians a nuclear weapon in a decade if they pretend not to experiment now (which they are certainly doing)?   Unless there was something in it for Barry (and John)