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danydandan

Atheism and Randomness.

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danydandan
Posted (edited)

In a recent topic a posters suggested that all Athiests simply believe that everything in the universe is here by pure random set of circumstances and therefore we are all just beings of randomness. This got me thinking that this cannot be true, it's a wide sweeping statement which are usually false.

So as there are a number of Athiests here in the forums I thought it would be good to ascertain what Athiests actually think.

I assume there are Athiests who believe in the laws of nature in classical physics which means they do believe in order.

I assume there are Athiests who don't follow scientific reasoning.

I assume some believe in Aliens.

Etc etc, so if your an Athiest what do you follow, believe in or what's your fancy?

Edited by danydandan
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dwarf vs grey ufo

Athiests can believe in order.
But if you ask an athiest why are sun's warm, giving off the perfect environment for life, how would they answer?

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Seti42

I self identify as agnostic for the simple reason that I do not know the answers. To me, declaring yourself an atheist is the same thing as declaring yourself religious. You are believing something that cannot be proven or disproven with absolute certainty. That's a faith.

I feel that science/reason is the best (still not perfect, though, lol) way to explain life, the universe, and everything. That doesn't mean I don't believe there are more unanswered questions than answered ones, however. I've experienced unexplainable things...Some were even scary. I try not to jump to conclusions, and I try to explore evidence, use the scientific method, and I'm also a fan of Occam's Razor (The simplest solutions is usually the correct one).

One thing I really dislike is evangelizing. And, yeah, some atheists do that too. No one should tell anyone what to believe; especially in matters of faith or spirituality.

I study religion and mythology because I find belief systems (and their art, stories/parables, architecture, music, etc.) beautiful and fascinating. But I do lean towards thinking that religion = mythology. It doesn't make it any less valid as a belief system for the faithful; it's just not my thing. Everyone needs something to believe in. Even if that "something" is "nothing".

I do believe there are other intelligence's out there somewhere, but I doubt they've visited Earth in person. If anything, they send robots and probes like we do. They are probably just as trapped on their homeworld as we are.

The idea of a Tulpa is fascinating, and might just explain a whole host of paranormal activities. In brief, it's a Tibetan word meaning "thought-form", ie: a person or a group of people could theoretically imagine something so hard that it manifests...At least to them.

Sorry to ramble, I enjoy websites like this one because I'm really intrigued by the whole field, and have been for decades. 

Fun question, though. Thanks for asking!

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danydandan
5 minutes ago, dwarf vs grey ufo said:

Athiests can believe in order.
But if you ask an athiest why are sun's warm, giving off the perfect environment for life, how would they answer?

Are you an Athiest? If so what do you believe in? As that's the whole point of the topic.

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Baldylocks
6 minutes ago, dwarf vs grey ufo said:

Athiests can believe in order.
But if you ask an athiest why are sun's warm, giving off the perfect environment for life, how would they answer?

Id look at the failed planets with no life on them next to the Earth. And Mars what has a chance of life.

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dwarf vs grey ufo

so suns are warm for no reason? just random?
that would be the opposite of what OP states.
I was once an athiest, tried to be a christian but failed couldnt bring myself to believe it.
In my atheist time yes i believed everything was pointless and just mundane inevitable chemical reactions, our consciousness is an illusion and we arent really alive.

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danydandan
Posted (edited)

Not the start of the thread I was looking for lol. A reply from an Agnostic l, that I appreciated as I think I'm am of the same mind set and one that didn't answer the question but asked another one.

Edited by danydandan

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Baldylocks
4 minutes ago, dwarf vs grey ufo said:

so suns are warm for no reason? just random?
that would be the opposite of what OP states.
I was once an athiest, tried to be a christian but failed couldnt bring myself to believe it.
In my atheist time yes i believed everything was pointless and just mundane inevitable chemical reactions, our consciousness is an illusion and we arent really alive.

Well when I say random I'm on about the bigger picture of it all. Our lungs are for breathing, theres a reason for said lung. But how humans got here in the first place is anyones guess, is it "God" or random? id go with random.

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Rlyeh
17 minutes ago, dwarf vs grey ufo said:

Athiests can believe in order.
But if you ask an athiest why are sun's warm, giving off the perfect environment for life, how would they answer?

The sun is hot because of nuclear fusion. The sun doesn't give a perfect environment for life.

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dwarf vs grey ufo

that is how they are warm but not why. why means there is a purpose or meaning for it.
athiesm is that there is no cause behind the causation. if you believe there is something guiding reality to be as it is, you aren't an athiest.

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Rlyeh
1 minute ago, dwarf vs grey ufo said:

that is how they are warm but not why. why means there is a purpose or meaning for it.
athiesm is that there is no cause behind the causation. if you believe there is something guiding reality to be as it is, you aren't an athiest.

No. Why can be asking for a purpose or a cause.

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danydandan
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, dwarf vs grey ufo said:

that is how they are warm but not why. why means there is a purpose or meaning for it.
athiesm is that there is no cause behind the causation. if you believe there is something guiding reality to be as it is, you aren't an athiest.

No Athiesm is the lack of a belief in God, that's it.

Edited by danydandan
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Rlyeh
49 minutes ago, danydandan said:

In a recent topic a posters suggested that all Athiests simply believe that everything in the universe is here by pure random set of circumstances and therefore we are all just beings of randomness. This got me thinking that this cannot be true, it's a wide sweeping statement which are usually false.

I think they're talking about chaos and not true randomness.

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dwarf vs grey ufo

Fusion is what caused the sun to be hot but is there a purpose for the sun being hot as in it is that way out of a desire, an intellect, a want- for some rhyme or reason? If there did happen to be this desire that caused suns to be like this, whatever that intelligent desire is, would you call that god? If you believe that desire caused all of reality can you still consider yourself atheist? I believe modernly god is synonymous with this type of desire guiding things to be as they are. It would take out the point of atheism if it didn't involve these modern definitions of god

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danydandan
9 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

I think they're talking about chaos and not true randomness.

No they literally believe all Athiests believe in the pure randomness of the universe. Which is, in my opinion, false.

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Baldylocks
3 minutes ago, dwarf vs grey ufo said:

Fusion is what caused the sun to be hot but is there a purpose for the sun being hot as in it is that way out of a desire, an intellect, a want- for some rhyme or reason? If there did happen to be this desire that caused suns to be like this, whatever that intelligent desire is, would you call that god? If you believe that desire caused all of reality can you still consider yourself atheist? I believe modernly god is synonymous with this type of desire guiding things to be as they are. It would take out the point of atheism if it didn't involve these modern definitions of god

But if there is this "God" how did it get there? did something else make it?

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Rlyeh
2 minutes ago, danydandan said:

No they literally believe all Athiests believe in the pure randomness of the universe. Which is, in my opinion, false.

Well they referred to accidents being random when they're closer to chaotic.

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danydandan

I simply can't accept that every single Athiest, past, present and future, all believe that the universe is a result of pure randomness.

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dwarf vs grey ufo

If it's not random then what is the causation behind reality. If you don't know the causation, you would be agnostic.

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Baldylocks
1 minute ago, danydandan said:

I simply can't accept that every single Athiest, past, present and future, all believe that the universe is a result of pure randomness.

Atheist basically means they don't believe cause there is no proof. If you gave atheists proof, they would believe.

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Rlyeh
1 minute ago, dwarf vs grey ufo said:

If it's not random then what is the causation behind reality. If you don't know the causation, you would be agnostic.

If it's causation then it's not random.

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Aquila King
1 hour ago, danydandan said:

In a recent topic a posters suggested that all Athiests simply believe that everything in the universe is here by pure random set of circumstances and therefore we are all just beings of randomness. This got me thinking that this cannot be true, it's a wide sweeping statement which are usually false.

So as there are a number of Athiests here in the forums I thought it would be good to ascertain what Athiests actually think.

I'm no atheist, but I know how atheists think since I was one.

Most atheists (not all of course) are philosophically determinists, meaning that they believe that all future events in the universe are predetermined by preset natural laws acting upon unconscious matter. That's not at all the same thing as believing in 'randomness'. Absolute randomness would be the exact opposite of this philosophy, namely indeterminism, where everything is in a constant state of randomness and the future is always indeterminate.

Most atheists don't believe the universe to be 'random', they just don't believe that there was an intelligent force behind it either.

Imagine a theist and an atheist witnessing a rock slide. The theist says: "Someone must have cause that rock slide to happen, and if you disagree then you believe it just randomly happened." The atheist retorts: "There was no one who cause the rock slide to occur, AND it didn't happen randomly. It occurred because of the laws of physics acting upon it it just the right way."

To say that atheists believe in 'randomness' is to straw man their position. While some may support indeterminism by way of Quantum Mechanics, most do not. And regardless, what's implied is that any position other than an intelligent cause must automatically be assumed to be 'random'. That just isn't the case.

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MysticWolf
49 minutes ago, dwarf vs grey ufo said:

Athiests can believe in order.
But if you ask an athiest why are sun's warm, giving off the perfect environment for life, how would they answer?

Seriously?

https://www.universetoday.com/12648/will-earth-survive-when-the-sun-becomes-a-red-giant/

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danydandan

I think I should clarify, as I think people are getting two beliefs mixed up with one believe.

Atheism is the lack of a believe in a God, that's it.

The second believe is that the universe is a result of randomness.

The are exclusive beliefs. I.e just because your an Atheist, doesn't necessarily mean you also believe the universe is randomness.

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dwarf vs grey ufo

But what causes the law of gravity to be at its exact strength. Random? Or they aren't sure. And suns being warm was random?

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