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Krater

MSM Deceptions Should Anger All Americans

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Paranormal Panther
6 hours ago, F3SS said:

Democrat/msm dictionary. Same thing.

C033F0D1-009C-4933-AAAC-29A994B9A5C0.jpeg.a852c1b57a3a93023df7e62ab9693942.jpeg

A Black conservative is a White supremacist. A traditional wife and mother is an anti-female sexist. A gay person, who doesn't want to force society to accept her/his lifestyle, is homophobic. A citizen of Mexican ancestry, who wants the Wall, is a xenophobe. 

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Aquila King
On ‎5‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 3:44 AM, Farmer77 said:

This simplistic us vs them mental midgetry is truly going to destroy this nation. 

Where did I say I supported illegal immigration? I didn't.  Where did i say I thought folks in Hollywood were royalty? I didn't. Stop with the AM radio talk show antics. 

As evidenced by the statistical data in order to enforce the law you don't have to be insulting, you don't have to act like a racist, you don't have to treat entire nations and populations as less than.  

Reveling in cruelty doesn't make one a patriot nor does it make one "tough" it makes one weak and small and considering that its our POTUS who is behaving in such a manner there is a very real concern that he is making America weak and small like him. 

 

None of that however detracts from the fact that Trump is using race baiting  tactics to keep his base energized, from "shithole" countries to telling cops to not be gentle with suspects immediately after removing DOJ mandated police reforms to saying a judge cant do his job because of his Mexican heritage and of course the very fine people in Charlottesville. Team Trump is playing that game perfectly. 

When there just aren't enough likes...

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internetperson
21 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

I am going to leave President Trump and the MSM out of this and write about us. It makes it easy for us to call MS13 animals. We can separate them from "Us" the good humans.  That makes it sound like they are a species apart and it could never happen to us.

I think the most important thing here in this thread is the context (which some folks are willingly ignoring) and so I don't think you can leave Trump and MSM out of this, otherwise who's calling MS13 animals? Anyway in regards to context you're taking the term animals literally when it is being used as an analogy or even emotive. 

And I think folks over analyze good/bad humans. We're all human period. However some folks will 9/10 times be bad. Those are what we refer to as bad people. 

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AnchorSteam
2 hours ago, Aquila King said:

When there just aren't enough likes...

Actually, that was a load of crap.

Quote

None of that however detracts from the fact that Trump is using race baiting  tactics

Oh really, now so?

 

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from "shithole" countries

I have been to 16 foreign countries, and I would not hesitate to describe several of them the very same way. I didn't see them from tourist Hotels. Maybe that makes the difference, but unless you believe that every nation in the world is inherently superior to America because it isn't America.... then I guess you will see any and all judgement against them as whatever pejorative you want to.

But you are not being realistic.

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to telling cops to not be gentle with suspects immediately after removing DOJ mandated police reforms

Such as what, exactly? The Cops feel hobbled and unable to do their jobs, that is why we have so many crappy ones nowadays. You want to make it even worse, go right ahead...  where you live. Then see what happens to the crime rate and property values. 

Or just save yourself some time and check out Detroit.

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 to saying a judge cant do his job because of his Mexican heritage

In truth that Judge had already said and done very prejudicial things and would have recused himself if he wasn't a total political Hack.

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and of course the very fine people in Charlottesville. 

So your opinion of everyone living in Charlottesville is they are all disgusting and evil and shoule be marched off to prison, or what?

 

I know you guys are just as desperate to trash a Republican President as the Democrats were in 1861, but can you ever stop and allow for a balanced view of.... anything at all?  Because the rhetoric being used these days tells me one thing; War is coming, and a lot of people in this country are doing everything they can to make sure it happens as soon as possible. 

I can take care of myself in a combat zone, how about you?

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Farmer77
34 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

Oh really, now so?

As i said before if you don't recognize the race baiting by now you never will. 

34 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

I have been to 16 foreign countries, and I would not hesitate to describe several of them the very same way. I didn't see them from tourist Hotels. Maybe that makes the difference, but unless you believe that every nation in the world is inherently superior to America because it isn't America.... then I guess you will see any and all judgement against them as whatever pejorative you want to.

But you are not being realistic.

You're entirely missing the point. By labeling those nations as shitholes in the context of a conversation regarding immigration he is labeling the people coming from those nations. As a private citizen you can speak like that all you want, although as an adult I would hope you have the couth to understand when it is appropriate to do so and when it isn't, as POTUS it is his duty to speak in a more responsible manner. 

38 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

Such as what, exactly? The Cops feel hobbled and unable to do their jobs, that is why we have so many crappy ones nowadays. You want to make it even worse, go right ahead...  where you live. Then see what happens to the crime rate and property values. 

Or just save yourself some time and check out Detroit.

LOL , go take a look at the Baltimore PD After Jaw-Dropping Testimony, Baltimore Police Corruption Trial Heads To Jury or the Chicago PD The disappeared: Chicago police detain Americans at abuse-laden 'black site'  Why is that relevant to his dog whistling and race baiting ? Glad you asked : More than 80% of the thousands held at the Chicago police's 'black site' were black

Its fine to defend the police, they really do some heroic things. Blindly defending them due to political ideology as you just did here though is a dangerous dangerous mindset for America as it pertains to protecting our freedom.  

 

42 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

So your opinion of everyone living in Charlottesville is they are all disgusting and evil and shoule be marched off to prison, or what?

My opinion is if you were marching with Nazis you are not a very fine person. The fact that Trump said that was, whether intentional or not, a salute to the Nazis. That is dangerous for America for a multitude of reasons. This being the most recent example : Texas Shooter Was A Nazi Sympathizer

46 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

I know you guys are just as desperate to trash a Republican President as the Democrats were in 1861, but can you ever stop and allow for a balanced view of.... anything at all

I absolutely can. I think the mistake you keep making is thinking this is about left vs right politics. Sure for some it is but for many, such as myself, its simply about decency. 

47 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

Because the rhetoric being used these days tells me one thing; War is coming, and a lot of people in this country are doing everything they can to make sure it happens as soon as possible. 

Oh it does appear to be coming. The old saying is Truth is the first casualty of war right? Here's A Running List Of President Trump's Lies And Other bull**** This Trump Lies Infographic Reveals How Many Untruths He's Telling Per Day  

The reality though is the vast majority see through the B.S. 

50 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

I can take care of myself in a combat zone, how about you?

Haha, yup and you as well. 

 

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AnchorSteam
30 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

As i said before if you don't recognize the race baiting by now you never will. 

I know that it is the favorite tactic of the Left, I see it being used every single day.

Shall we have a few pages filled with links and Vids and other evidence?  I can do that any time.

Quote

You're entirely missing the point. By labeling those nations as shitholes in the context of a conversation regarding immigration he is labeling the people coming from those nations.

As what, people coming from a really crappy place? Yeah, so?

I thought that was the big new excuse; "Economic Refugees".  Does that not ring a big ol' Bell?

Quote

As a private citizen you can speak like that all you want, although as an adult I would hope you have the couth to understand when it is appropriate to do so and when it isn't, as POTUS it is his duty to speak in a more responsible manner. 

I would rather have a POTUS that speaks honestly then one that filters every word through a whole committee of exerts at double-speak, Political Correctness and a whole host of Legalistic BS.

The last FOUR guys in the White House have taught me to despise that kind of aristocratic white-noise garbage.

People like Trump because when he says something, for better or for worse, he said something.

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And who in Chicago is committing the crimes, eh? :rolleyes:

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Its fine to defend the police, they really do some heroic things. Blindly defending them due to political ideology as you just did here though is a dangerous dangerous mindset for America as it pertains to protecting our freedom.  

I think you know what I am saying, but if you want it in black & white;  make the job somethng that only an idiot would do, and only Idiots will volunteer to take it up. 

Quote

My opinion is if you were marching with Nazis you are not a very fine person. The fact that Trump said that was, whether intentional or not, a salute to the Nazis.

So EVERYONE in Charlotte that was not with the antiFa was marching with Nazis?

You are saying that not a single person there was actually concerned with Free Speech, or upset about old statues being torn down for the sake of a P.C. fashion statement?  

Sounds VERY political to me, the old"If you ain't one of us, you must be ___ ___ (fill in the blank).

And this ignores the fact that the whole thing was organized by a couple of guys who had been Democrats until the day after Hillary lost. 

They have vanished from public view since then, interestingly enough not a single Leftist has asked why or tried to even look into them since that little event.

 

Oh, and "Dog Whistles"... what does that crap even mean?

When you have to assign secret coded mysterious undecipherable meanings to what other people say, you are making crap up to support a narrative that obviously has no connection to reality. 

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I absolutely can. I think the mistake you keep making is thinking this is about left vs right politics. Sure for some it is but for many, such as myself, its simply about decency. 

I don't believe that. 

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Oh it does appear to be coming. The old saying is Truth is the first casualty of war right?

Because it is deliberatly murdered by people who only see one side of the argument. 

Quote

 

The reality though is the vast majority see through the B.S. 

Yup, wich is why PMSNBC and CNN are looking at their ratings drop into the toilet, while Trump's approval ratings go higher than Obama's own.

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Haha, yup and you as well. 

 

So if you do, then you know how badly it sucks.

Only the ones that don't know could possibly be stupid enough to want to see it happen again in their lifetimes. 

Edited by AnchorSteam
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Farmer77
15 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

I would rather have a POTUS that speaks honestly then one that filters every word through a whole committee of exerts at double-speak, Political Correctness and a whole host of Legalistic BS.

That's great in theory, in practice generally only ignorant people actually speak like that though. A filter is required in adult society. Had Trump ever been forced to hold down a job I imagine he would understand that. 

15 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

And who in Chicago is committing the crimes, eh? :rolleyes:

So because they were committing crime it was cool for them to be detained, interrogated and tortured off the books ? Jesus man I hope you've been drinking tonight. 

So no mention of the rampant abuse and corruption by the police? No recognition that reforms may have in fact been needed? No understanding of how the decision to undo those reforms may have affected the folks those reforms were put in place to protect? 

15 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

I don't believe that. 

That's too bad. I think there are a lot of people out there like me who are sick of the party hero worship bull****. The left let the Clintons act in ways that would have been unimaginable if they didn't have a D next to their name and now the right is doing the exact same thing. Its pretty ****ed up. 

15 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

Because it is deliberatly murdered by people who only see one side of the argument. 

I just posted a link to THOUSANDS of lies by Trump and that's what you want to come back with? Think about that for a second. Would you have any respect for an individual who defended a democrat who lied like that? 

Sure every politician is a liar, but nowhere near this level  with this regularity.

 

Edited by Farmer77

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AnchorSteam
7 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

That's great in theory, in practice generally only ignorant people actually speak like that though. A filter is required in adult society. Had Trump ever been forced to hold down a job I imagine he would understand that. 

What brand of Glue are you sniffing, and where can I get some? Trump has been a work-a-hoilic all his life and still is one. His industries are not like Hollywood (or Congress) where they work like mad 3-4 months out of the year and just sack out or abuse young girls the rest of the time. CEOs in a place like New York are always on the job... its crazy, I would never do that myself.

And no, I reject the P.C. filter with its 57 gender pronouns and ever-shifting rules.

Yup, he's a loud-mouth and egotistical. The good thing about Trump is you can see it up front.

7 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

So because they were committing crime it was cool for them to be detained, interrogated and tortured off the books ? Jesus man I hope you've been drinking tonight. 

What the **** are you trying to pull NOW?

You never mentioned torture, you never made that even seem like a periphery issue.... it must be in the link and NO I DIDN"T BOTHER TO CLICK ON EVERY ****ty LITTLE LINK that gets tossed out on every page.... so you can take your stupid little "Gotcha" game and shove it right where the sun don't shine.

7 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

So no mention of the rampant abuse and corruption by the police?

No, and no 50-paragraph disclaimer of any and all legal details of everything ever said by anyone since the dawn of frakking time, either.

Prick.

7 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

That's too bad. I think there are a lot of people out there like me who are sick of the party hero worship bull****. The left let the Clintons act in ways that would have been unimaginable if they didn't have a D next to their name and now the right is doing the exact same thing. Its pretty ****ed up. 

Hero worship was exactly what that "Rock-Star" Obama got for 8 years, and the Left was all lined up for exactly the same thing for Hillary. I don't suppose you saw the cover that Newsweek had all ready to go with.

And the usual Hate-fest has been rolled out for Trump as has been the case with Bushes and Reagan.

7 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I just posted a link to THOUSANDS of lies by Trump and that's what you want to come back with?

Yup.

You think I am going to read through thousands of entries before getting back to you?

Not even a very smart thing to imply, let alone reasonable.

Knowing how insanely jealous the Left gets when anyone else at all has any power, I can guess that 99.99% of what the Neo-Communists have put on that list is garbage. I have seen it before; 

A list intended to show the USA is a gang of war-mongers turned out to be trash, filled with examples of a regiment marching from point A to Point B being called a war without a single shot being fired.

Another list  attempted to show Mass Shooting were going through the roof.... they swtiched the definition from 5 down to 3 people getting hit. Not killed, but just nicked by a bullet was good enough, including the shooter. This meant that one suspect and two cops exchanging fire would count as a "mass shooting, even if all three were just winged.

So, goodnight Irene, that's enough nonsense for one week.

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Farmer77
33 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

What brand of Glue are you sniffing, and where can I get some? Trump has been a work-a-hoilic all his life and still is one.

Sure he has. However he has never had to be an employee. That's the larger problem, he started life running a 200 million dollar company. He didn't work his way up, he's never had to work nor has he ever had to observe the social norms that the vast majority of human beings do. 

33 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

Yup, he's a loud-mouth and egotistical. The good thing about Trump is you can see it up front.

No you really cant. I mean sure you can see he is loud mouthed and egotistical which might be tolerable if he was honest. Without the honesty however its not "plain speech" its just ignorant cruelty. 

33 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

What the **** are you trying to pull NOW?

You never mentioned torture, you never made that even seem like a periphery issue.... it must be in the link and NO I DIDN"T BOTHER TO CLICK ON EVERY ****ty LITTLE LINK that gets tossed out on every page.... so you can take your stupid little "Gotcha" game and shove it right where the sun don't shine.

Hahahaha so presenting evidence in a conversation is now a gothcha game? You acted like removing the reforms was no big deal I presented facts I felt may change your position. That's all. 

33 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

Hero worship was exactly what that "Rock-Star" Obama got for 8 years,

Youre right he did and as a result he acted like a mass murderer in Syria and Libya as well as mandating corporate welfare in the guise of healthcare reform. That's kinda exactly what I'm referring to. 

33 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

I don't suppose you saw the cover that Newsweek had all ready to go with.

I did and the panic over it was ridiculous. Both versions of the magazine had been made but due to the polls the company (wasn't even newsweek) decided to print the Clinton version. No, Newsweek's Clinton cover is not proof the election is rigged

Quote

The commemorative editions are actually produced by a separate company, Topix Media, under the Newsweek banner.

"For the past six months Newsweek Special Editions has been piecing together a Road to the White House Tribute Issue for both major party candidates," Tony Romando of Topix Media said on Monday.

Romando shared the introductory pages of the Trump edition with CNNMoney to prove that both versions exist.

 

But Topix made a business decision to only print the Clinton version ahead of time given that she is almost universally favored to win the election on Tuesday.

clinton trump newsweek cover

 

33 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

Yup.

You think I am going to read through thousands of entries before getting back to you?

Not even a very smart thing to imply, let alone reasonable.

No actually I (somewhat naively I suppose) think that people actually care about America hell I guess my hope is we're all vigilant citizens like the founding fathers asked us to be and as such I assumed you were already aware of the documented lies which have so intentionally been spread by Trump and company. 

33 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

 

Knowing how insanely jealous the Left gets when anyone else at all has any power, I can guess that 99.99% of what the Neo-Communists have put on that list is garbage. I have seen it before; 

A list intended to show the USA is a gang of war-mongers turned out to be trash, filled with examples of a regiment marching from point A to Point B being called a war without a single shot being fired.

Another list  attempted to show Mass Shooting were going through the roof.... they swtiched the definition from 5 down to 3 people getting hit. Not killed, but just nicked by a bullet was good enough, including the shooter. This meant that one suspect and two cops exchanging fire would count as a "mass shooting, even if all three were just winged.

So, goodnight Irene, that's enough nonsense for one week.

Ooof so just digging in that foxhole and pulling an ostrich huh? :lol:

Edited by Farmer77

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Lilly

Underneath it all there is the blatant reality: 

Some countries really are 's-holes' (not saying it's the fault of all the people suffering such oppression mind you). 

Some people at Charlottesville were members of the Historical Society (they were not Nazis).

The 'animals' comment was very clearly aimed at the Salvadoran gang MS13. 

Of course all politicians try and spin things in their favor (all of them). Now, where the difference arises (from past Presidents) is that the mainstream news media is nowadays very clearly biased toward one political party. The spinning is very much one sided on most news networks. When the coverage on Trump on these networks is 90% negative there's something not quite 'correct' going on. When Nancy Pelosi feels secure enough to stand up and say that President Trump called all undocumented immigrants 'animals' (despite the video obviously demonstrating they were talking about MS13 gang members) then something is really, really wrong. In the past Ms Pelosi would have been jumped on for telling a lie like that...but not now.   

 

 

 

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skliss

I do think it's funny that people talk about Trump like he knows about nothing that goes on with his companies, etc. I watched a 60 mins or 20/20 where they interviewed some of his construction guys. These guys said he was the only CEO they've ever known who actually can run all their machinery as well as they do. He took the initiative to learn all their jobs so as to better understand how things work on a construction site so he could make better decisions. He also insisted that all his children work and learn all that stuff as well. He's a hands on CEO ...how many heads of billion dollar companies do you think have done this?

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Aquila King
9 hours ago, Lilly said:

Some countries really are 's-holes' (not saying it's the fault of all the people suffering such oppression mind you). 

But not all the people coming from those countries are undeserving of being granted citizenship solely on the basis of the 's-hole' status of their country of origin.

This isn't a debate over whether a nation's current state is bad or not, it's about viewing ALL immigrants from said country to be bad on the basis of their country of origin. That's what Trump was talking about. It's inherently discriminatory towards people based on their nation of origin. There are already laws even that prohibit discrimination against people's nationality.

9 hours ago, Lilly said:

Some people at Charlottesville were members of the Historical Society (they were not Nazis).

Any sane person who opposes Nazism and racism would notice the Nazis all around them chanting "Jews will not replace us" and whatnot, and step out of the crowd as opposed to marching alongside them.

You don't get brownie points for 'disagreeing' with Nazis while you march along side them.

9 hours ago, Lilly said:

The 'animals' comment was very clearly aimed at the Salvadoran gang MS13. 

Even if that was the case (which there's no reason to assume so given Trump's history of anti-immigrant rhetoric), no one should be dehumanized in such a way.

Granted, this is low on the totem pole of outrageous things Trump has said and done, but given the context of all the other hateful anti-immigrant things he says it's alarming to hear nonetheless.

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Tatetopa
17 hours ago, internetperson said:

I think the most important thing here in this thread is the context (which some folks are willingly ignoring) and so I don't think you can leave Trump and MSM out of this, otherwise who's calling MS13 animals? Anyway in regards to context you're taking the term animals literally when it is being used as an analogy or even emotive. 

You are right.  I will comment.  President Trump is brilliant at energizing his base.  Some think he is great at keeping promises.  Maybe he is.  He is storming about illegal immigration and building a wall because you like it.

Yet figures released by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) on December 5th show that the total number of deportations has declined over the past fiscal year—from October 1st 2016 to September 30th 2017—to the lowest level seen since 2006. - From The Economist.

Of course that is from the MSM, so maybe you will doubt  it.  Or you can say it proves that President Trump's approach is working.  Is he bragging about success?  No he is still flogging the issue for all its worth because you like it.   I am opposed to illegal immigration, but it is only one of my concerns. We are trying to make peace on the Korean Peninsula, Iran is going further off the rails, Iraq just elected a leader that led major armed opposition to US presence and his group killed a number of US service members.  The President is helping a Chinese company because it means too many lost jobs in China?  What about the lost jobs and stolen American technology ZTE uses?  All of that chest pounding tariff talk is on hold because China didn't blink..Was it good sense, or the fact the Chinese just put a billion dollars into a Trump development in Indonesia?  If it was Hillary, you would be sure it was the Clinton crime family striking again selling out America for personal gain.

Stopping the opiod addiction or bringing jobs back are harder promises to keep.   One day he is telling Congressmen they are scared of the NRA and he will have to be the guy to stand up to them, Time passes and he is the chief speaker at the NRA convention.  He is a guy that tries to butter the toast on both sides.  He sputters some throwaway platitudes after the shooting in Texas and likely as not, if something happens somebody else will do it.

He will fulfill the easy trigger promises to you as long as you keep him in power and the money flowing into the pockets of his family and friends.  Don't have any  illusions, he can't remember how to spell his wife's name, why would you think he cares about you?  He will throw the American people away like a used kleenex when he is done with them - both liberals and conservatives alike..  Just as  he did all of the laborers and contractors he left in the cold during his bankruptcies.

Enough rant.  President Trump probably did not distinguish when he called "them" animals that he meant MS13 only, and of course it wasn't literal, only emotive.  He is a clever man, if he left it ambiguous, he likely meant to do so.

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Krater
39 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

This isn't a debate over whether a nation's current state is bad or not, it's about viewing ALL immigrants from said country to be bad on the basis of their country of origin. That's what Trump was talking about.

No, this is a discussion about how the MSM lies on a regular basis to bolster their narrative. That, and our president was clearly talking about MS13 gang members who are lower than dog sh**...not even close to sub-human. ;)

I challenge you to open your home to them. Tell the parents of some of their victims how they shouldn't be "dehumanized". See how that works out for you.

Edited by Krater
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Paranormal Panther
47 minutes ago, Krater said:

No, this is a discussion about how the MSM lies on a regular basis to bolster their narrative. That, and our president was clearly talking about MS13 gang members who are lower than dog sh**...not even close to sub-human. ;)

I challenge you to open your home to them. Tell the parents of some of their victims how they shouldn't be "dehumanized". See how that works out for you.

The leftists weren't so quick to defend "deplorables". I wonder why that is (rhetorical question)? Pelosi seemed fine with Hillary's slur from what I heard and saw. She never mentioned any divine sparks in Trump voters.

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Gromdor
1 hour ago, Krater said:

No, this is a discussion about how the MSM lies on a regular basis to bolster their narrative. That, and our president was clearly talking about MS13 gang members who are lower than dog sh**...not even close to sub-human. ;)

I challenge you to open your home to them. Tell the parents of some of their victims how they shouldn't be "dehumanized". See how that works out for you.

Believe it or not, I've had a MS-13 gang member in my home and have been to his home and met his wife and kid as well.  (I didn't find out he was MS-13 until well into our relationship, however)

 About ten years ago the construction union decided to help out with the "Jobs for felons" program and took in a bunch of felons.  Most were younger to mid 20's but one of the guys we got was late 30's.  Jose was Latino and was a really hard worker.  But he was really fixated on making money and a secondary focus on personal reputation- to the level where I thought it was unhealthy.

  As time went on I found out a bit of his past.  He owned four businesses.  A bar, cleaning company, upholstery business, and the one that landed him in jail- drug dealing from previously mentioned bar.  He had a wife and 11yr old kid, his house was paid for with drug money but he got to keep it because he didn't deal from there so it didn't get seized.  Guy never missed work and did stuff on the side.  I got to talking with him and we more or less became friends.  Been to his house, met the family, fixed the daughter's computer, went out eating with him on occasion.  Got to the point where he was trying to get me into starting a bar with him (felon can't get liquor license) on the South side of Des Moines.  I refused because there was a lot of incidents with the bars down there and there was no way there wasn't going to be a hassle with him anywhere near the bar because of his felony.

  During this time he restarted his cleaning company and the upholstery company.  The cleaning company did after hours office cleaning while his upholstery company landed a contract with Chili's restaurant to repair their damaged seats.  I noticed that he had no problem getting guys to work for him and they all acted a bit odd around him.  They were all very diffident towards him.  So I asked him why all the guys treated him with respect like that and how he got so many to work for him so fast.  He replied, "Oh, I'm with Mara Salvatrucha".

   That's when I found out he was MS-13.  That soured me to any other business ideas that Jose had.  My gut told me he was too greedy to stay honest.  As time went on he ended up quitting construction because it didn't make enough money for him for it to be worth the time.

It did open my eyes to a couple of things about gangs and MS-13 in particular.  First off not everything they do is illegal, the have fingers in legal pies as well.  Chili's would probably have been really surprised to find out that they were hiring MS-13 to reupholster their booths for example.  Second, not all the gang bangers were dumb teenagers.  They had middle aged business men in their ranks that employed and protected them.  The third thing,  Jose was a US citizen.  MS-13 was made in America and they weren't bringing  gang members to America, but rather converting immigrants that got here into gang members as well as Latino Americans.

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Aquila King
2 hours ago, Krater said:

No, this is a discussion about how the MSM lies on a regular basis to bolster their narrative. That, and our president was clearly talking about MS13 gang members who are lower than dog sh**...not even close to sub-human. ;)

I challenge you to open your home to them. Tell the parents of some of their victims how they shouldn't be "dehumanized". See how that works out for you.

Sigh... If you actually gave a crap about statistical analysis and facts you'd know that there's hardly any reason to fear illegal immigrants.

Quote

In the context of crime, victimization, and immigration in the United States, research shows that people are afraid of immigrants because they think immigrants are a threat to their safety and engage in many violent and property crimes. However, quantitative research has consistently shown that being foreign born is negatively associated with crime overall and is not significantly associated with committing either violent or property crime. If an undocumented immigrant is arrested for a criminal offense, it tends to be for a misdemeanor. Researchers suggest that undocumented immigrants may be less likely to engage in serious criminal offending behavior because they seek to earn money and not to draw attention to themselves.

http://criminology.oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780190264079.001.0001/acrefore-9780190264079-e-93

Should they have come here illegally? No, of course not. But the overwhelming majority of them are here simply to provide a better life for their family. They aren't all hardened drug dealing gang members and rapists like conservatives suggest.

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Faustus
1 hour ago, Aquila King said:

Sigh... If you actually gave a crap about statistical analysis and facts you'd know that there's hardly any reason to fear illegal immigrants.

Should they have come here illegally? No, of course not. But the overwhelming majority of them are here simply to provide a better life for their family. They aren't all hardened drug dealing gang members and rapists like conservatives suggest.

So then when will you be opening your home and housing some?  I think you paint conservatives with a broad brush.  I lean conservative, but some of my best friends are Hispanic. 

Are there a substantial number that commit crimes, while here illegally(in itself is breaking the law) ?  Yes there are.   click to read   Would those crimes have occurred if the assailants were not in the country to begin with?  No

My wife is Hispanic and her family came over here legally and waited in line.  They resent those coming here cutting in front of more families trying to do it the right way.  I love Hispanic people, I married one.  They have beautiful families, and are very industrious.   

With that being said this country and it's laws are written to protect the American people.  Americans...Citizens....  They come first.  Period.  We have immigration laws on the books for a reason.  The laws and borders of a country must be enforced, or it's chaos, like the roving caravan from Honduras, waiving Honduran flags, demanding entry.  If just one American Citizen is harmed by his government not enforcing the laws on the books to protect his opportunities, then his government has failed him.  I know many American citizens harmed by the supply of low wage labor in and around where I live, and guess what?  They are all lower to middle class American citizens, some are painters, some are sheetrockers, framers, some lay brick.  All Americans----injured by their own government unwilling or unable to enforce the law on the books.  Where do you live?  I live in Texas.  It's a major problem here.  

Look if you don't like the law as it's written then write your congressman, but don't lambaste those who disagree with you----many of which who's wages suffer, or can't even find a job as Americans because the low wage labor market is saturated.  Perhaps it doesn't affect you?  The law must be enforced or changed.  We have a legal process, it's scoffed at and abused.  

Edited by Faustus
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acidhead
2 hours ago, Aquila King said:

Sigh... If you actually gave a crap about statistical analysis and facts you'd know that there's hardly any reason to fear illegal immigrants.

Should they have come here illegally? No, of course not. But the overwhelming majority of them are here simply to provide a better life for their family. They aren't all hardened drug dealing gang members and rapists like conservatives suggest.

You admit illegals are breaking the law and therefore criminals.  Yet  suggest, as most know...  that the majority aren't hardened drug dealing gang members and rapists.  

Yeah rapists.

You've also admitted here your father rapped you. And thus being the reason why you are currently unemployed.  A social fear out in public.

For the life of me I do not understand how you welcome illegal immigrants admitting full well not all of them are rapists but a percentage are.

It truly questions your true intentions, how you honestly see yourself and the motives behind these posts.

 

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Aquila King
1 minute ago, Faustus said:

So then when will you be opening your home and housing some?

I don't really have room where I live for a full family of room mates, nor would I (if I had room) necessarily go out searching for illegal immigrants to come live with me. But if I were looking for room mates, simply being an illegal status wouldn't personally deter me from accepting them.

As I said, the overwhelming majority are just peaceful hard working families who came here for a better life. What's for me to be afraid of?

7 minutes ago, Faustus said:

I don't think conservatives suggest such a thing at all.

The you need to open your eyes and ears.

Trump started his campaign back in 2015 by saying "they're criminals, they're rapists, and some I assume are good people." If he had said most are good people and some are criminals and rapists, then he'd be correct. But no, he and his supporters who have cheered him on incessantly continue to discriminate against illegal immigrants by slandering them all as criminals and rapists when the statistics (that I just linked) prove otherwise. 

Why do people deny what we have Trump on tape saying and doing? Do you really think I'm supposed to just ignore what my eyes and ears clearly tell me? I just don't get it.

18 minutes ago, Faustus said:

Are there a substantial number that commit crimes, while here illegally(in itself is breaking the law) ?  Yes there are.   click to read   Would those crimes have occurred if the assailants were not in the country to begin with?  No

The Washington Times is no surprise, a right-wing leaning news outlet. And the article you linked only cites The Crime Prevention Research Center, which has been outed numerous times as a far-right propaganda tool filled with falsehoods used by right wing circles to seemingly 'validate' their positions. It's founder is author John Lott who first wrote the book More Guns, Less Crime; an unapologetically pro-gun anti-gun control book and then later founded the CPRC in 2013 which has come under heavy scrutiny for having it's research being funded by multiple right-wing groups.

Whether you're aware of it or not, you're simply propagating proven right-wing propaganda pieces with extreme biases towards a particular outcome. Ironically in a thread about mainstream media biases of all things.

Perhaps this is why conservatives ignore unbiased objective statistics that are inconvenient to their ideology? Because they can just as easy look up whatever pseudoscience right-wing funded research they want that helps push the false narrative along. Why listen to scientific data, when there's just as much if not more so pseudoscientific data out there all amongst it?...

We're all doomed...

39 minutes ago, Faustus said:

My wife is Hispanic and her family came over here legally and waited in line.  They resent those coming here cutting in front of more families trying to do it the right way.  I love Hispanic people, I married one.  They have beautiful families, and are very industrious.   

With that being said this country and it's laws are written to protect the American people.  Americans...Citizens....  They come first.  Period.  We have immigration laws on the books for a reason.  The laws and borders of a country must be enforced, or it's chaos, like the roving caravan from Honduras, waiving Honduran flags, demanding entry.  If just one American Citizen is harmed by his government not enforcing the laws on the books to protect his opportunities, then his government has failed him. 

I understand your concern, and I agree that American citizens come first. However that isn't an excuse to treat human beings of any nation like cattle.

Whether you like it or not, these are human being with their own families with children. You don't have to agree with the parents coming here illegally. However (for example), if a family who brought their children here from the ages of 2 or younger, and who work full time if not two whole jobs and thereby contributing to the American economy, and remain upstanding citizens (apart from immigrating illegally of course) in their daily lives, simply trying to provide the best life that they can for their children; do they really deserve to have their family ripped apart with some of them deported, never to see their kids again? I don't think it's fair to rip someone away from their family, especially someone who obeys the laws and works hard, to be deported simply because they immigrated illegally. Especially when they only did it so as to provide the best opportunity they can for their family. The punishment just doesn't fit the crime.

I get that they shouldn't have immigrated here illegally, but we shouldn't be so quick to dehumanize them for it and treat them like animals either. They're human beings with lives and families of their own.

1 hour ago, Faustus said:

I know many American citizens harmed by the supply of low wage labor in and around where I live, and guess what?  They are all lower to middle class American citizens, some are painters, some are sheetrockers, framers, some lay brick.  All Americans----injured by their own government unwilling or unable to enforce the law on the books.  Where do you live?  I live in Texas.  It's a major problem here.  

Yet another myth perpetuated by right-wing propaganda outlets: https://www.thenation.com/article/undocumented-immigrants-contribute-over-11-billion-to-our-economy-each-year/

1 hour ago, Faustus said:

Look if you don't like the law as it's written then write your congressman,

I have before actually. It was over the FCC voting to end Net Neutrality. Of course it was basically a waste of my time, but hey, I did it.

1 hour ago, Faustus said:

or, by all means house some illegals with you(yea right),

Again, I have no problem with that if I could. I honestly don't know why anyone would have a problem with it considering the facts.

1 hour ago, Faustus said:

but don't paint everyone that disagrees with you, many of which who's wages suffer, or can't even find a job, because Juan from south of the border will work for 7.50 / hr, because he has to income tax, no insurance, splits rent with 10 others, etc.  

See, this is exactly what the rich people screwing you over want you to think.

Blame immigrants and brown people for your woes, when in reality it's the rich mother****ers in Washington who're shipping factory jobs over seas and fighting for lower wages and oppose Medicare for all who are the real culprits behind all of that.

If they can distract you from blaming them for screwing you over by telling you it's these immigrants who're doing so, (and my personal favorite: actually convincing millions upon millions of people that tax breaks for the wealthy somehow magically help poor and middle class families too) then they can get away with billions and billions of dollars while the middle class suffers.

The oldest Republican trick in the book.

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Aquila King
18 minutes ago, acidhead said:

You admit illegals are breaking the law and therefore criminals.  Yet  suggest, as most know...  that the majority aren't hardened drug dealing gang members and rapists.  

Yeah rapists.

You've also admitted here your father rapped you. And thus being the reason why you are currently unemployed.  A social fear out in public.

For the life of me I do not understand how you welcome illegal immigrants admitting full well not all of them are rapists but a percentage are.

It truly questions your true intentions, how you honestly see yourself and the motives behind these posts.

A small percentage of native born citizens are rapists too. Does that mean I shouldn't be around ALL native born citizens?

Look, at the end of the day, the crime rate difference between undocumented immigrants and native born citizens is negligible. The overwhelming majority of people on all sides are just regular good people. So what if a tiny fraction of illegal immigrants are rapists? A tiny fraction of US citizens are rapists. What's your point?

EDIT: Also, please refrain from bringing up my personal history on here again unless I bring it up first thank you.

Edited by Aquila King

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Farmer77
16 hours ago, Lilly said:

Some people at Charlottesville were members of the Historical Society (they were not Nazis).

If they marched with Nazis they weren't very fine people. It truly is that simple. 

Switch the gang affiliation for a second. Would you be defending people who marched with MS-13 while they chanted hateful slogans? 

16 hours ago, Lilly said:

Some countries really are 's-holes' (not saying it's the fault of all the people suffering such oppression mind you). 

Yes but the reality is he wasn't speaking solely of the geographical location of the country.  Trump Told Senators He Doesn’t Want Any More Immigrants From “Shithole” Countries he was speaking of the human beings. 

 

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acidhead
40 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

A small percentage of native born citizens are rapists too. Does that mean I shouldn't be around ALL native born citizens?

Look, at the end of the day, the crime rate difference between undocumented immigrants and native born citizens is negligible. The overwhelming majority of people on all sides are just regular good people. So what if a tiny fraction of illegal immigrants are rapists? A tiny fraction of US citizens are rapists. What's your point?

EDIT: Also, please refrain from bringing up my personal history on here again unless I bring it up first thank you.

Obviously my point is illegal immigrants are criminals to begin with.  For yourself to ignore or disregard those who are rapists is baffling..  considering those entering are illegal to begin with?? Isn't this enabling a criminal???

Allow me to say this without a boundary... Which I respect yet you gotta already know it cannot be ignored.

How will you ever feel safe? An illegal is a criminal. You get this?  

You are enabling criminal behavior.

Just curious...

Are there stats available for rapists compared to the USA and Mexico???

People flee Mexico to America.

For a reason.

What will eventually result is southern Mexico is America.

Lawless.

 

I don't.

How about gangs???

How many murders in the USA compared to Mexico.. we can Google those stats.  

It isn't even close to America.  It's staggering really.

So again ... Why turn a blind eye?

 

 

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acidhead

Here's the deal.

You like many are virtue signaling.

You whole heartinly believe you are the righteous side.

You are wrong.

It's this way of thought that gets civilizations slaughtered.

 

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Farmer77
10 minutes ago, acidhead said:

How will you ever feel safe? An illegal is a criminal. You get this?  

If a man steals to feed his family should he be labeled a criminal all his life? Hell if a man kills to save his family should he be labeled a murderer? 

I don't disagree that immigrants are breaking the law when they come here illegally, I just think we should remember many of these people are fleeing pretty horrific situations. To claim that making that decision somehow puts them on an equal plane with rapists and murderers is off base. 

 

Edited by Farmer77
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