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Still Waters

German city is first to ban older diesel cars

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Still Waters

Hamburg is to become the first German city to ban some diesel cars to improve air quality, setting a template for other urban centres in the country.

The ban will affect about 214,000 cars, more than two-thirds of the diesel vehicles registered in Germany’s second-largest city.

Authorities in the northern port city said on Wednesday some older vehicles would be barred from two of its main arteries from 31 May.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/23/hamburg-first-german-city-ban-older-diesel-cars-air-quality-pollution

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Piney

Good! Diesels are the biggest polluters! :tu:

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stevewinn

a policy which has been pursued far to quickly, not allowing the car industry to adapt, diesel car sales down in Germany by 19%, talk in the industry of coming job losses numbering 20,000+

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internetperson
4 hours ago, Piney said:

Good! Diesels are the biggest polluters! :tu:

But they're soo cool! Oh well, can't win 'em all.

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Grey Area
3 hours ago, stevewinn said:

a policy which has been pursued far to quickly, not allowing the car industry to adapt, diesel car sales down in Germany by 19%, talk in the industry of coming job losses numbering 20,000+

But who’s fault is that?  Clearly this is a knee jerk reaction, but it is a reaction to the lies and deceit perpetrated massively by the German motor industry.

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Michelle

Like the save the trees movement changed grocery bags from paper to plastic. People jump on the bandwagon without doing any research.

After the Kyoto Protocol in 1997, European governments threw their weight behind diesel cars as a way to hit their CO2-reduction targets, since they emitted way less CO2 than their gasoline-powered brothers. Governments have since spent billions subsidizing the fuel to make it cheaper than petrol, and other incentives, like taxing new diesel registrations at lower rates than petrol cars.

https://qz.com/1183779/europes-intoxicating-love-affair-with-diesel-is-dying-out/

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Piney
42 minutes ago, Michelle said:

since they emitted way less CO2 than their gasoline-powered brothers.

It turned out that research was "smoked"......quite literally! :tu:

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toast

Hamburg is my hometown and I have to say that the ban is a great joke. It isn't really a general ban because residents, residents visitors and delivery vehicles can enter the zone without restrictions. One street (Stresemannstrasse) is a main road from the east to the west of the city and with the ban all cars/truck have to use side streets which cannot provide the capacity required to channel the traffic without causing huge traffic jam in these areas, causing much more air pollution than traffic that is in a flow. Same situation with the other street (Max Brauer Allee) as well. In the restricted sections of both streets are air quality monitoring stations (since 1990 or so) and the one in the Max Brauer Allee is located on the central reservation right in between two bus stations left and right, which isn't realty a perfect place to determine the air quality in a specific district in an objective fashion. I expect a lot of trouble because of the ban (because we are rebels!) and I`m sure it will be lifted soon.

 

 

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Hammerclaw

Das macht nichts.

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NicoletteS

Is this true?

33167015_2057257814492570_884931595629232128_n.jpg

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toast
2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Das macht nichts.

Ja, alles für den "rsch.

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RoofGardener

If true, then it seems awfully harsh. Also a bit daft ?

It only effects about 2Km of road at the moment, effectively isolating some areas from non-resident "through-traffic". Such traffic would be diverted around the target areas. 

Interestingly, this is a European Union issue; Germany is being threatened with being taken to the European Court of Justice by the Commission for breaching air quality in a number if its cities (this being one of them). It is not a German innovation. 

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toast
1 hour ago, NicoletteS said:

Is this true?

Hell, that's BS. And if you look at the image carefully, the people look like Asians and not like Germans.

And, the fuel price don't get determined by the government here because we aren't a communistic state. Of course, the price includes taxes which are determined by the government but the frequent price volatility is caused by Big Oil only.

 

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toast
3 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

It only effects about 2Km of road at the moment, effectively isolating some areas from non-resident "through-traffic". Such traffic would be diverted around the target areas.

^^Exactly. A Hamburg media agency calculated a few weeks ago that the number of citizens who would benefit from the ban is at roughly 70k but with the ban at least the same number of people along the alternative routes will suffer.

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Hammerclaw

In America, this is called "feel good legislation" because that's all you really get out of it.

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aztek
Just now, Piney said:

It turned out that research was "smoked"......quite literally! :tu:

 the research is correct, diesels emit less co2,  however it is not as bad as more NO and NO2 which  diesels emit more of.

the research was about greenhouse effect, not  about air pollution.

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aztek

here in usa diesel cars are few and far between. my ex gf had diesel golf, with stick shift, i actually liked it, it was so much easier to drive than my friends mustang. i could just drop the clutch, and it would pull without even  pressing the gas, in mustang i had to carefully coordinate clutch\gas to take off, one small mistake and it would stall.

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Piney
6 minutes ago, aztek said:

 the research is correct, diesels emit less co2,  however it is not as bad as more NO and NO2 which  diesels emit more of.

the research was about greenhouse effect, not  about air pollution.

My diesel threw out between 350 and 400 ppm CO. My gas truck 100 to 125. Both rated at 350 hp. The diesel was 5.7 the gas 5.0 Lt. 

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aztek
Posted (edited)
Just now, Piney said:

My diesel threw out between 350 and 400 ppm CO. My gas truck 100 to 125. Both rated at 350 hp. The diesel was 5.7 the gas 5.0 Lt. 

yea, that looks about right, but co is not greenhouse gas, co2 is and diesels emit less of it. back then they only cared about greenhouse effect, not pollution

Edited by aztek
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Piney
15 minutes ago, aztek said:

here in usa diesel cars are few and far between. my ex gf had diesel golf, with stick shift, i actually liked it, it was so much easier to drive than my friends mustang. i could just drop the clutch, and it would pull without even  pressing the gas, in mustang i had to carefully coordinate clutch\gas to take off, one small mistake and it would stall.

I had 2 5.0 LXs and a 289 GT. That made me laugh because that's what everyone did when trying to drive them. :lol:

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Piney
12 hours ago, NicoletteS said:

Is this true?

33167015_2057257814492570_884931595629232128_n.jpg

That's a picture of a Chinese freeway!!!:lol:

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aztek

traffic party

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stevewinn
On 23/05/2018 at 10:33 PM, Grey Area said:

But who’s fault is that?  Clearly this is a knee jerk reaction, but it is a reaction to the lies and deceit perpetrated massively by the German motor industry.

The trouble is the knock on effect is impacting on the car industries in the UK & France. there will be job losses in the UK as well, diesel car sales down 17%.

 

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RAyMO
15 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

diesel car sales down 17%.

Car sales are down overall in the UK. Diesels more than others - but if people are going to buy - they will buy, so losses on diesels will be made up in either petrol, hybrid or electric cars.  Manufacturers are already prioritizing non diesel models I believe. so related overall job looses due to move away from diesel should be mitigated to some extent.

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