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Terraforming Earth's Climate: Crazy ideas.


lost_shaman

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Let us assume that the Climate Change scare is worst case and now we have to think about Terraforming Earth's Climate. 

Now what are your Crazy ideas to do this? I'm sure everyone is rolling their eyes thinking of "Chemtrail" conspiracies! That's why I choose the word Climate over Atmosphere because it's the Climate that we are discussing and my example below to start off the thread doesn't involve altering the Atmosphere.

So my crazy idea involves launching a fleet of small Satellites just in front of the L1 orbit. These Satellites being just slightly outside of L1 will all employ large Solar Sails that they will use to maintain a stable orbit around L1. These would be synchronized in an elliptical and slightly off plane orbit around L1 and the Solar Sails will both control the path of the Fleet but also block Sunlight and UV rays at the Tropics. The "epiphany" here is that we can control the fleet and how it acts so basically we would have the ability to remotely add or subtract a non negligible amount of Solar radiation reaching the Earth.

So there is my idea. What's yours?

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Stop messing with it and it will fix itself.

People are compromising their health with all the chemicals they use and crap they consume. A "die back" is coming. It's a natural event with all creatures whose population explodes.

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13 hours ago, Piney said:

Stop messing with it and it will fix itself.

I personally don't think Climate change is much of a concern and is far less of a threat than "Alarmists" want us all to believe. With that said I started the thread to hear what crazy ideas some of these "Alarmists" think we should do to terraform the Climate to "Save us".

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3 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

I personally don't think Climate change is much of a concern and is far less of a threat than "Alarmists" want us all to believe. With that said I started the thread to hear what crazy ideas some of these "Alarmists" think we should do to terraform the Climate to "Save us".

The "Alarmists" are all sitting in "safe spaces". They haven't a clue to what's outside. :tu:

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4 minutes ago, Piney said:

The "Alarmists" are all sitting in "safe spaces".

For sure, but while they are sitting in their "safe spaces" I know they are dreaming of strange ideas to terraform the Climate to "Save us". For example at least one frequent member here who I don't need to name, believes we have will have to scrub CO2 out of the Atmosphere. Well that's just an example but what crazy ideas do these people have to do something like that? Others I know have been tinkering with ideas like introducing aerosols into the Atmosphere to reflect more sunlight into space before reaching the Stratosphere. Basically an attempt to mimic large volcanic eruptions or large asteroid strikes! I want to hear and discuss these wild ideas.

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I'm a American Indian (Algonquian) traditionalist. My policy is "stop what your doing bad and leave it alone". I learned at the Rutgers Forestry School that any attempts to fix things always make it worse. Like that insane plastic eating bacteria idea. I see that going the wrong way in a bad way.

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On ‎24‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 6:41 PM, seanjo said:

Reduce the Human population by about 6 billion and plant millions and millions of trees.

 

Do we have any volunteers?

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On 5/25/2018 at 5:36 AM, Rlyeh said:

Do we have any volunteers?

Guess not!

My daughter was talking to me about becoming a vegetarian. She asked me why every one can't be a vegetarian? I told her that there simply is not enough land to feed everyone on Earth as a vegetarian. 

 

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On 24.05.2018 at 10:29 AM, lost_shaman said:

Let us assume that the Climate Change scare is worst case and now we have to think about Terraforming Earth's Climate.

and the Solar Sails will both control the path of the Fleet but also block Sunlight and UV rays at the Tropics

So there is my idea. What's yours?

Do you imagine what area should be sail to prevent sunlight? If we are destroyed by ultraviolet radiation then we need to look for terrestrial causes of ozone depletion.

A good example of terraforming:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNRyvhapKGo

 

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17 hours ago, Coil said:

Do you imagine what area should be sail to prevent sunlight?

I'm not sure I understand your question. L1 is directly between the Sun and Earth so placing several or many small Satellites with large Solar Sails at L1 will block some Sunlight reaching the Earth. For example blocking 10 square miles of sunlight at L1 with Solar Sails would block ~0.0035% of direct Sunlight at the L1 orbit which is about 1 million miles from Earth. That doesn't sound like much, but the way shadows work and the inverse square law of Light that small amount at that distance would be highly significant. In fact maybe even more Shading of the Sun than we would want, but certainly enough to out weigh any heating caused by CO2 concentrations people worry about.

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Why not just go for a dyson sphere. Using the exterior of the the shell to collect solar power, with enough "windows" to allow the right amount of sunlight through. 

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1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

Why not just go for a dyson sphere. Using the exterior of the the shell to collect solar power, with enough "windows" to allow the right amount of sunlight through. 

BUT don't you only have a few years to "save the Earth" from CO2? Dyson sphere will take a while longer than that to even engineer.

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10 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

BUT don't you only have a few years to "save the Earth" from CO2? Dyson sphere will take a while longer than that to even engineer.

You wanted ideas. So what's the problem? I gave an idea.

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1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

You wanted ideas. So what's the problem? I gave an idea.

It's an ok idea, but mine is much faster. 

 

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13 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

It's an ok idea, but mine is much faster. 

 

I don't care. I just added what you asked. 

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Humans are aholes, education can reduce the problem but not eliminate it, when we have people disputing data we have a problem , or disputing scientific based conclusions (with concensus or not) with religious arguments we have a problem, when we have people who think opinions have the same value as facts we have a problem, when we have people who rejects something just because of political afilliation we have a problem, when we have people who think morals, ethics or values are all the same thing we have a problem.

When we have people station CO2 as a polution gas, we have a educational problem.

We have a problem with CO2 % increasing in the athmosphere, wheter man made or not, its a fact. Some say its not a problem and point to the fact that CO2 concentrations were also high in the past and life had no problem with it, yet convinently  or incompetently leave out the fact the human species did not existed then, we dont know how our species will adjust, as our species lives in an ecosystem, ecosystem thst is being changed, for those who do not understand this in the past oxygens levels were much higher and so insects were MUCH BIGGER.

Education on the problem and eduction on what responses/solutions that are available now have to be explained.

I have low hopes for a positive outcome of this mess.

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26 minutes ago, godnodog said:

as our species lives in an ecosystem, ecosystem thst is being changed, for those who do not understand this in the past oxygens levels were much higher and so insects were MUCH BIGGER.

To be fair... there used to be a really big NO SMOKING sign!

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41 minutes ago, godnodog said:

incompetently leave out the fact the human species did not existed then

When? 40,000 years ago? 200,000 years ago? 600,000 years ago? 

We have bi-pedal homo-like foot prints from 8 million years ago. 

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4 hours ago, lost_shaman said:

When? 40,000 years ago? 200,000 years ago? 600,000 years ago? 

We have bi-pedal homo-like foot prints from 8 million years ago. 

Dude seriously? Our species (Homo Sapiens or Homo Sapiens Sapiens) have been around for an estimate 200K years.
http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/species/homo-sapiens
CO2 levels this high: "For a 2009 study, published in the journal Science, scientists analyzed shells in deep sea sediments to estimate past CO2 levels, and found that CO2 levels have not been as high as they are now for at least the past 10 to 15 million years, during the Miocene epoch."
http://www.climatecentral.org/news/the-last-time-co2-was-this-high-humans-didnt-exist-15938

 

Even if both estimated dates have a big error in time frames, the diferences between the 2 in the worst case would still be in the million of years.

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On 5/31/2018 at 12:30 PM, godnodog said:

Even if both estimated dates have a big error in time frames, the diferences between the 2 in the worst case would still be in the million of years.

Yes, I don't dispute that. BUT, who cares? During those "millions of years" CO2 was at dangerously low levels considering it is essential to Plant life. 

As to your Alarmist point, the Climate was hotter during the Roman Warm Period between 250BC and 400AD  and Homo Sapiens were doing quite well during that time of hotter climate and CO2 was only at about 200 ppmv.

As to your point about our species, we evolved from the other Bi-pedal Great Apes that came before us. We have found just last year it was reported a discovery in Greece of anatomically correct Homo foot prints that are 8 million years old. That is our Genus and they survived quite well even before lithic tool use. 

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13 hours ago, lost_shaman said:

Yes, I don't dispute that. BUT, who cares? During those "millions of years" CO2 was at dangerously low levels considering it is essential to Plant life. 

As to your Alarmist point, the Climate was hotter during the Roman Warm Period between 250BC and 400AD  and Homo Sapiens were doing quite well during that time of hotter climate and CO2 was only at about 200 ppmv.

As to your point about our species, we evolved from the other Bi-pedal Great Apes that came before us. We have found just last year it was reported a discovery in Greece of anatomically correct Homo foot prints that are 8 million years old. That is our Genus and they survived quite well even before lithic tool use. 

2

"Who cares" thats exactly part of  the problem ,you should care because its future generations. 

"During those "millions of years" CO2 was at dangerously low levels considering it is essential to Plant life." - 
"Climate was hotter during the Roman Warm Period between 250BC and 400AD  and Homo Sapiens were doing quite well during that time of hotter climate and CO2 was only at about 200 ppmv." DUDE currently CO2 levels are over 400ppm, that´s double that.
https://www.co2.earth/daily-co2
 

2017

412.63 ppm on April 26, 2017 (NOAA-ESRL)
411.27 ppm on May 15, 2017 (NOAA-ESRL)

2016

409.44 ppm on April 9, 2016 (Scripps)
409.39 ppm on April 8, 2016 (Scripps)

2015

404.84 ppm on April 13, 2015 (Scripps)

"As to your point about our species, we evolved from the other Bi-pedal Great Apes that came before us. We have found just last year it was reported a discovery in Greece of anatomically correct Homo foot prints that are 8 million years old. That is our Genus and they survived quite well even before lithic tool use. " Dude just because a species is part of the Homo branch doesn´t mean its like humans of today. http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-family-tree

And again CO2 levels this high were in a time there were no Homo of any kind.

I think your posts are real kind of reasons to be alarmed.

Untitled1.jpg

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On 5/24/2018 at 3:21 AM, Piney said:

Stop messing with it and it will fix itself.

People are compromising their health with all the chemicals they use and crap they consume. A "die back" is coming. It's a natural event with all creatures whose population explodes.

If we actually did what we could to mitigate the problem, maybe we'd have a chance at avoiding the die back. 

That said, we'd need everyone to agree on that, and quite obviously, some people would rather have the die back. 

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Did you ever see The Arrival?

Hokey '90s movie about aliens terraforming.

I always think of that when this topic surfaces. 

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On 31.05.2018 at 10:38 AM, lost_shaman said:

I'm not sure I understand your question. L1 is directly between the Sun and Earth so placing several or many small Satellites with large Solar Sails at L1 will block some Sunlight reaching the Earth. For example blocking 10 square miles of sunlight at L1 with Solar Sails would block ~0.0035% of direct Sunlight at the L1 orbit which is about 1 million miles from Earth.

Too little effect and too much spending on satellites and a lot of sails and what power is needed to adjust these sails of a large area.

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