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bison

Mr. Trump Cancels North Korea Summit Meeting

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bison

Mr. Trump has canceled the summit meeting with North Korea, which had been set for June 12th, in Singapore. He cited a new, angry reaction from the North to remarks by vice-president Pence as his reason.

Mr. Pence has suggested that North Korea could end up like Libya, if it does not accept the terms offered by the United States for settling the Korean crisis. This seems to be a reference to the overthrow of the Libyan government and the assassination of its leader. 

Mr. Trump also compared the small nuclear arsenal of North Korea to the immense one of the United States, and said he hoped his country would never have to use it. To North Korea, a nation with grave fears about the intentions of other countries toward it, this, too, would likely have appeared as a threat.    

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StarMountainKid

V.P. Pence is a greater danger than Trump. 

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preacherman76

You sure it was Pence who said that? I thought it was Bolton?

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StarMountainKid
2 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

You sure it was Pence who said that? I thought it was Bolton?

Bolton is another danger.

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bison
3 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

You sure it was Pence who said that? I thought it was Bolton?

Mr. Bolton first raised the comparison of the denuclearization of Libya, and that proposed for North Korea. Mr. Pence later, as they say, 'doubled down' on that, even more explicitly threatening that if North Korea didn't come to terms, it could end up like post-nuclear Libya, its government overthrown, its leader brutally assassinated. Given the current situation, and North Korea's sensitivities, it's difficult to image a line of talk more likely to provoke them to anger.  

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spartan max2

This is disappointing :(

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StarMountainKid

All these guys think confrontation is the way to achieve a peaceful world. I think they just like violence, to put it bluntly.. 

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Piney
1 minute ago, StarMountainKid said:

All these guys think confrontation is the way to achieve a peaceful world. I think they just like violence, to put it bluntly.. 

Pence has serious masculinity issues. I watched his radio show rants on youtube. He's a cowardly loudmouth.

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bison
7 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

This is disappointing :(

Yes, to put it mildly. It could also be dangerous. If North Korea is provoked sufficiently, they may strike out in fear and anger, regardless of the likely consequences.

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spartan max2
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, bison said:

Yes, to put it mildly. It could also be dangerous. If North Korea is provoked sufficiently, they may strike out in fear and anger, regardless of the likely consequences.

Oh no im pretty sure north Korea will be less likely to do anything now then ever before.

Everyone in the world thinks our president is waiting for an excuse to attack. North Korea is going to be very hesitant. 

Because they know that retaliation would happen in force 

Edited by spartan max2
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bison
4 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Oh no im pretty sure north Korea will be less likely to do anything now then ever before.

Everyone in the world thinks our president is waiting for an excuse to attack. North Korea is going to be very hesitant. 

Because they know that retaliation would happen in force 

Those are rational calculations you mention. Are we altogether certain that North Korea will react rationally, if they are goaded into expecting  imminent attack, even if that expectation is mistaken? North Korea has not been consistent in acting rationally, up until now.

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spartan max2
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, bison said:

Those are rational calculations you mention. Are we altogether certain that North Korea will react rationally, if they are goaded into expecting  imminent attack, even if that expectation is mistaken? North Korea has not been consistent in acting rationally, up until now.

I understand the sentiment. I think when it comes to diplomacy it is always hard to find the balance between stances of strenght and aggression vs stances of being passive and more cooperative. 

I learn towards churchill's stance of "you can't negotiate with a lion when your neck is in its month" (or something like that lol)

I agree north Korea isn' the most rational so I am always more uncertain of how best to approach them. 

Edited by spartan max2
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StarMountainKid

TURNING and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

W.B. Yeats - 'The Second Coming'

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Hammerclaw
1 hour ago, bison said:

Mr. Trump has canceled the summit meeting with North Korea, which had been set for June 12th, in Singapore. He cited a new, angry reaction from the North to remarks by vice-president Pence as his reason.

Mr. Pence has suggested that North Korea could end up like Libya, if it does not accept the terms offered by the United States for settling the Korean crisis. This seems to be a reference to the overthrow of the Libyan government and the assassination of its leader. 

Mr. Trump also compared the small nuclear arsenal of North Korea to the immense one of the United States, and said he hoped his country would never have to use it. To North Korea, a nation with grave fears about the intentions of other countries toward it, this, too, would likely have appeared as a threat.    

North Korea began waffling and back peddling long before President Trump made any such announcement. Obviously,  Mr. Kim thought he was exchanging grandiose and empty rhetoric with President Trump, only to find--much to his chagrin--the President was serious and sincere. His bluff called, Mr. Kim was in a quandary about what to do, so he did the only thing he knows how to do diplomatically; bluster and threaten--it's a family tradition. This meeting--if it ever occurs--is going take a little work.

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StarMountainKid
2 hours ago, bison said:

Mr. Trump has canceled the summit meeting with North Korea, which had been set for June 12th, in Singapore. He cited a new, angry reaction from the North to remarks by vice-president Pence as his reason.

Mr. Pence has suggested that North Korea could end up like Libya, if it does not accept the terms offered by the United States for settling the Korean crisis. This seems to be a reference to the overthrow of the Libyan government and the assassination of its leader

Mr. Trump also compared the small nuclear arsenal of North Korea to the immense one of the United States, and said he hoped his country would never have to use it. To North Korea, a nation with grave fears about the intentions of other countries toward it, this, too, would likely have appeared as a threat.    

I think the section I bolded scared Mr. Kim. 

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RoofGardener
Posted (edited)

I don't know what to make of it.... except...

Is it possible that this is strategy on the President's part, rather than tactics ? He is throwing away a chance to negotiate. However, by doing this, he is sending a message that he is no Obama, and won't be trifled with. If people make bellicose comments about him, he pushes back. 

Perhaps NEXT time, Kim Jong un will be a little more circumspect ? 

Or to put it another way... President Trump is softening Kim up for a future meeting. 

Umm.. or possibly he is just an idiot :D 

Edited by RoofGardener

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StarMountainKid
6 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

I don't know what to make of it.... except...

Is it possible that this is strategy on the President's part, rather than tactics ? He is throwing away a chance to negotiate. However, by doing this, he is sending a message that he is no Obama, and won't be trifled with. If people make bellicose comments about him, he pushes back. 

Perhaps NEXT time, Kim Jong un will be a little more circumspect ? 

Or to put it another way... President Trump is softening Kim up for a future meeting. 

I'm not convinced Trump has any strategy, he just reacts as Trump.

Look upon my Plantpots ye mighty, and despair. :) 

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Likely Guy
13 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said:

I think the section I bolded scared Mr. Kim. 

Yeah, I think that Pence cost Trump a shot at the Nobel Peace Prize.

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bison
16 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

North Korea began waffling and back peddling long before President Trump made any such announcement. Obviously,  Mr. Kim thought he was exchanging grandiose and empty rhetoric with President Trump, only to find--much to his chagrin--the President was serious and sincere. His bluff called, Mr. Kim was in a quandary about what to do, so he did the only thing he knows how to do diplomatically; bluster and threaten--it's a family tradition. This meeting--if it ever occurs--is going take a little work.

As far as I can ascertain, North Korea began to pull back what it had offered-- the possibility of full denuclearization, and tolerance of U.S./South Korean war games after John Bolton compared the current negotiations to the denuclearization of Libya. This seems to have had the effect of denigrating North Korea's nuclear program, which is actually far ahead of what Libya ever had. It also appears to have evoked the aftermath of Libya's disarming, which included U.S. and allied bombing, the collapse of its government, and the assassination of it's leader.  

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StarMountainKid
2 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

Yeah, I think that Pence cost Trump a shot at the Nobel Peace Prize.

Hard to say how the negations would have proceeded. With two belligerents, I'm not sure any agreement would have been possible.

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Hammerclaw
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, bison said:

Mr. Trump has canceled the summit meeting with North Korea, which had been set for June 12th, in Singapore. He cited a new, angry reaction from the North to remarks by vice-president Pence as his reason.

Mr. Pence has suggested that North Korea could end up like Libya, if it does not accept the terms offered by the United States for settling the Korean crisis. This seems to be a reference to the overthrow of the Libyan government and the assassination of its leader. 

Mr. Trump also compared the small nuclear arsenal of North Korea to the immense one of the United States, and said he hoped his country would never have to use it. To North Korea, a nation with grave fears about the intentions of other countries toward it, this, too, would likely have appeared as a threat.    

Of course it's a threat, a threat only a despot threatening nuclear war understands. This isn't going be a meeting of girl scouts over cookies and lemonade. An arrogant despot has met his match in audacity and hyperbole. North Korea began pulling back with cancelled meetings with South Korea citing pre-planned allied military exercises the reason. Things were going down hill before then. The lack of communication from the North regarding the details of the meeting was telling. 

Edited by Hammerclaw
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Piney

Anybody seriously look at Kim's equipment? If we have 5 F-4 Gs still laying around with the Wild Weasel package and the 20mm nose gun we can take out his entire air force and stay away from his seriously outdated ground defenses...

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Hammerclaw
1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

I don't know what to make of it.... except...

Is it possible that this is strategy on the President's part, rather than tactics ? He is throwing away a chance to negotiate. However, by doing this, he is sending a message that he is no Obama, and won't be trifled with. If people make bellicose comments about him, he pushes back. 

Perhaps NEXT time, Kim Jong un will be a little more circumspect ? 

Or to put it another way... President Trump is softening Kim up for a future meeting. 

Umm.. or possibly he is just an idiot :D 

"Oh, East is East and West is West and never the Twain shall Meet, 'Till Earth and Sky stand presently, at God's Great Judgment Seat; But there is neither East nor West, border nor breed nor birth, When two strong men stand face-to-face, though they come from the ends of the Earth."    Kipling

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Hammerclaw

Donald Trump wages war rather adroitly behind the smokescreen of his pugnacious personality. He rope-a-dopes a lot absorbing punishment, then comes off the ropes with a vengeance. I wouldn't want to be his adversary. The mistake many who are, as well as many posters in these forums, make, is to forever underestimate the man who lurks behind the façade of a jester's mask. Like Kim, he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. He was also, at age thirteen, enrolled by his parents in New York Military Academy "to teach him discipline" from which he graduated at age 17 in 1964.           https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Military_Academy#/media/File:Donald_Trump_NYMA.jpg                              

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Kismit

This was not a meeting I ever thought Kim was going to attend.

To me this looks like the excuse Donald Trump is using to save face. 

It was becoming more and more obvious that Kim was going to pull out, so POTUS did it first.

 

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