Short prison sentences do not work

[Still Waters]

Short prison sentences of less than 12 months do not rehabilitate prisoners and should be a last resort, the justice secretary has said, adding that the UK is now holding too many people in jail.

David Gauke, who is overseeing an overcrowded prison service rife with violence and drug use, said that he would like to see the prison population come down, with alternatives to short spells in jail for the least serious offenders.

Gauke told the Times he wanted to start a wider debate about “what punishment means”, noting that prisoners held for less than a year have a recidivism rate of about 66%, higher than the reoffending rate of those handed non-custodial sentences.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/may/26/short-prison-sentences-do-not-work-says-justice-secretary-david-gauke

[Piney]

All the gang members I was in prison with had full intention of going back to doing what they were doing. The people I knew that "found religion". Lost it again as soon as they were released with few exceptions. Very few.......one actually...

[Duke Wellington]

26 minutes ago, Still Waters said:

Short prison sentences of less than 12 months do not rehabilitate prisoners and should be a last resort, the justice secretary has said, adding that the UK is now holding too many people in jail.

David Gauke, who is overseeing an overcrowded prison service rife with violence and drug use, said that he would like to see the prison population come down, with alternatives to short spells in jail for the least serious offenders.

Gauke told the Times he wanted to start a wider debate about “what punishment means”, noting that prisoners held for less than a year have a recidivism rate of about 66%, higher than the reoffending rate of those handed non-custodial sentences.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/may/26/short-prison-sentences-do-not-work-says-justice-secretary-david-gauke

Prison sentences of all lengths fail to rehabilitate prisoners.

When it comes to the psychological and developmental problems underpinning their criminality then how does taking away their freedom fix them? Prison is to remove them from society so they cannot have any more negative impact. When it comes to rehabilitation then no psychologist can fix a personality disorder. Instead the focus is on giving the offender a range of techniques to (hopefully) manage their condition a bit better. Something that has a high failure rate resulting in a high percentage of released offenders ending back up in prison.

I would like to see an evaluation of each offender in prison and if they have a personality disorder give them an automatic full life tariff even if they are in for mere shop lifting. The sooner that these people (who are 95% if the prison population) are removed from the gene pool the better for society in my opinion. And if the prison system gets too large then get the nooses out.

Edited May 27, 2018 by RabidMongoose

[Piney]

2 minutes ago, seanjo said:

I'm all for the return of corporal punishment.

Fear is what keeps aberrant people in line! 

[SHaYap]

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Quote

 

Kim Traynor - Own work

"The Scottish machine is made of oak and consists of a sole beam 5 feet in length into which are fixed two upright posts 10 feet in height, 4 inches broad and 12 inches apart from each other, and 3 1/2 inches in thickness, with bevelled corners. These posts are kept steady by a brace at each side which springs from the end of the sole and is fastened to the uprights 4 feet from the bottom. The tops of the posts are fixed into a cross rail 2 feet in length. The block is a transverse bar 3 1/4 feet from the bottom, 8 inches in breadth and 4 1/2 inches in thickness, annd a hollow on the upper edge of this bar is filled with lead... The axe consists of a plate of iron faced with steel; it measures 13 inches in length and 10 1/2 inches in breadth. On the upper edge of the plate was fixed a mass of lead 75 lbs in weight. This blade works in grooves cut on the inner edges of the uprights, which are lined with copper..." -- Proceedings of the Society of Antiquities of Scotland, Vol.III, 1886-8

 

• wiki link

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Cheap and efficient ...

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[LV-426]

Can we not just start sending them to Australia again?

Maybe in some sort of exchange program for Gabrielle Miller, the woman from the Trivago ads?

No?

It's a good deal, honest! All that working-age muscle power for one minor TV personaility...

Still no?

Bah!

[Duke Wellington]

Maybe we should try a social experiment.

Make the entire duration of a prison sentence like military basic training. With one exception. There is no get out and if the offender refuses to play ball then use pain as a punishment.

[Paranormal Panther]

Is that why Tommy got thirteen months for exercising his free speech rights(?)? I like some British members on this forum, so I will refrain from saying more on this matter at this time. I just shake my head at what is taking place in the land that birthed John Locke and Adam Smith, two of the most profound influences on the success of my own country. They may even think of themselves as honorary Americans now that their country has embraced the path to totalitarianism. 

[Piney]

8 hours ago, seanjo said:

We used to send our convicts to the US, until they rebelled...

Gee...Thanks......

[Piney]

6 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

Maybe we should try a social experiment.

Make the entire duration of a prison sentence like military basic training. With one exception. There is no get out and if the offender refuses to play ball then use pain as a punishment.

They do that in certain prisons in the U.S. It doesn't work in the max.  @Farmer77  who was a former CO for the max will tell you. We ran the show in the "dangerous dog cage" not the guards. They just let us in and out of our cages and let us kill each other so we didn't kill them.

[keithisco]

I always thought a Penal Colony (somewhere like Anthrax Island ) was a good idea. Inmates would have to contribute to growing their own food or have K-Rations instead. Those on less serious offences could buy their freedom through extra work for which they would earn a log, or twine, or sail, to build their own raft back to the mainland. Too harsh do you think?? 

[SHaYap]

10 minutes ago, keithisco said:

I always thought a Penal Colony (somewhere like Anthrax Island ) was a good idea. Inmates would have to contribute to growing their own food or have K-Rations instead. Those on less serious offences could buy their freedom through extra work for which they would earn a log, or twine, or sail, to build their own raft back to the mainland. Too harsh do you think?? 

Go to jail and work ?

For over 99% of the lot, what's the point to getting in jail then ?

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[Duke Wellington]

13 hours ago, Paranormal Panther said:

Is that why Tommy got thirteen months for exercising his free speech rights(?)? I like some British members on this forum, so I will refrain from saying more on this matter at this time. I just shake my head at what is taking place in the land that birthed John Locke and Adam Smith, two of the most profound influences on the success of my own country. They may even think of themselves as honorary Americans now that their country has embraced the path to totalitarianism. 

The trial of the Muslim rape gang has a media ban on it preventing all journalists from reporting on the case.

Tommy ignored that ban by recording the defendants entering the court and trying to interview them. The judge gave him a warning over this behaviour for contempt of court but decided to let him go on the condition he stopped making a nuisance of himself outside. The moron went back out and proceeded to carry on making his recorded article which I believe he intended to upload to Facebook and YouTube. The police therefore arrested him for public disorder, took him inside the court, and the judge reversed the warning for contempt of court issuing him with a prison sentence instead.

All people in this country are entitled to a fair trial and that includes a group of Muslims accused of paedophilic rape. Tommy just learned a harsh lesson - get in the way of a court trying to do its job and you get issued with a prison sentence. He will probably be out in 3 months if he appears to have learned his lesson but if he carries on in prison I can see him doing the full thirteen months. There is no conspiracy to silence him, no state picking on him, only a judge trying to run a criminal trial. I believe when Tommy went back outside he was actually trying to make out that all Muslims are paedophiles who will rape your daughters. Thats incitement.

[Duke Wellington]

11 hours ago, Piney said:

They do that in certain prisons in the U.S. It doesn't work in the max.  @Farmer77  who was a former CO for the max will tell you. We ran the show in the "dangerous dog cage" not the guards. They just let us in and out of our cages and let us kill each other so we didn't kill them.

I`m sure my prison could calm him down - if he isn't responding to military basic training and keeps fighting with the other inmates then he would experience having his testicles removed. Lets see if a lack of testosterone fixes him.

 

Edited May 28, 2018 by RabidMongoose

[Piney]

29 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

I`m sure my prison could calm him down - if he isn't responding to military basic training and keeps fighting with the other inmates then he would experience having his testicles removed. Lets see if a lack of testosterone fixes him.

 

The Bloods send their "Soldiers" into the military to learn combat training. Many are experienced Gulf War vets. I see your boot camp working with petty criminals. But a gang member is something else. Trust me. You would create a lot of dead and crippled COs. That's why the boot camps are only for petty criminals.

I spent 3 1/2 years in the same hole with the Bloods, the Kings, the Hatred, Warlocks, Henchmen, Crips and MS13.  Your clueless...

 

[Duke Wellington]

Just now, Piney said:

The Bloods send their "Soldiers" into the military to learn combat training. Many are experienced Gulf War vets. I see your boot camp working with petty criminals. But a gang member is something else. Trust me. You would create a lot of dead and crippled COs. That's why the boot camps are only for petty criminals.

I spent 3 1/2 years in the same hole with the Bloods, the Kings, the Hatred, Warlocks, Henchmen, Crips and MS13.  Your clueless...

So how would you do it?

[Piney]

Just now, RabidMongoose said:

So how would you do it?

When I was a tribal cop the Bloods had me out gunned and out manned. I kept the peace with negotiation and mutual respect. It gave me allies and kept me alive in prison.

So, I don't really have a answer......The societies in the Americas created them....so they reap what they sow.....but there is no real solution.

[Paranormal Panther]

9 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

The trial of the Muslim rape gang has a media ban on it preventing all journalists from reporting on the case.

Tommy ignored that ban by recording the defendants entering the court and trying to interview them. The judge gave him a warning over this behaviour for contempt of court but decided to let him go on the condition he stopped making a nuisance of himself outside. The moron went back out and proceeded to carry on making his recorded article which I believe he intended to upload to Facebook and YouTube. The police therefore arrested him for public disorder, took him inside the court, and the judge reversed the warning for contempt of court issuing him with a prison sentence instead.

All people in this country are entitled to a fair trial and that includes a group of Muslims accused of paedophilic rape. Tommy just learned a harsh lesson - get in the way of a court trying to do its job and you get issued with a prison sentence. He will probably be out in 3 months if he appears to have learned his lesson but if he carries on in prison I can see him doing the full thirteen months. There is no conspiracy to silence him, no state picking on him, only a judge trying to run a criminal trial. I believe when Tommy went back outside he was actually trying to make out that all Muslims are paedophiles who will rape your daughters. Thats incitement.

Why are your news outlets not allowed to cover this story? I'm referring to Robinson. Your authorities don't seem to have much regard for freedom of the press or freedom of speech. In fact, the UK is turning into an Orwellian dystopia. Post a "racist" or "sexist" message, expect a knock on your door from the speech patrol or the thought police. Crack down on "far right" rallies, but allow anti-American Muslim crackpots to threaten *my* country. I saw this in an *unedited* clip, so I know the score there. I also read scores of posts from British people who share my concerns about your diminishing freedoms.

[Setton]

8 hours ago, Paranormal Panther said:

Why are your news outlets not allowed to cover this story? I'm referring to Robinson. Your authorities don't seem to have much regard for freedom of the press or freedom of speech. In fact, the UK is turning into an Orwellian dystopia. Post a "racist" or "sexist" message, expect a knock on your door from the speech patrol or the thought police. Crack down on "far right" rallies, but allow anti-American Muslim crackpots to threaten *my* country. I saw this in an *unedited* clip, so I know the score there. I also read scores of posts from British people who share my concerns about your diminishing freedoms.

They're not allowed to cover it because inaccurate or unreliable reporting (such as Robinson's) could prejudice the jury. If that happens, the defence can argue for a mistrial, meaning the defendants go free, regardless of guilt. 

In other words, far from trying to uphold justice, Robinson's actions threaten to undermine it and potentially endanger other people. So he was stopped, and rightly so. 

[Duke Wellington]

18 hours ago, Paranormal Panther said:

Why are your news outlets not allowed to cover this story? I'm referring to Robinson. Your authorities don't seem to have much regard for freedom of the press or freedom of speech. In fact, the UK is turning into an Orwellian dystopia. Post a "racist" or "sexist" message, expect a knock on your door from the speech patrol or the thought police. Crack down on "far right" rallies, but allow anti-American Muslim crackpots to threaten *my* country. I saw this in an *unedited* clip, so I know the score there. I also read scores of posts from British people who share my concerns about your diminishing freedoms.

Today the media are reporting not on the case but on the imprisonment of Tommy Robinson.

The media challenged the ban on reporting about him yesterday and won.

[Paranormal Panther]

15 hours ago, Setton said:

They're not allowed to cover it because inaccurate or unreliable reporting (such as Robinson's) could prejudice the jury. If that happens, the defence can argue for a mistrial, meaning the defendants go free, regardless of guilt. 

In other words, far from trying to uphold justice, Robinson's actions threaten to undermine it and potentially endanger other people. So he was stopped, and rightly so. 

The news blackout on his arrest is absurd. So much for freedom of the press and freedom of speech. Many people, around the world, see this for what it is. I'm definitely not alone.

[Paranormal Panther]

5 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

Today the media are reporting not on the case but on the imprisonment of Tommy Robinson.

The media challenged the ban on reporting about him yesterday and won.

That's good to hear. That's one small step in the right direction.

[Setton]

8 hours ago, Paranormal Panther said:

The news blackout on his arrest is absurd. So much for freedom of the press and freedom of speech. Many people, around the world, see this for what it is. I'm definitely not alone.

There is no news blackout on his arrest. There is a media ban on the case he interfered with, which led to a lot of outlets bit reporting his arrest for fear of breaking that ban. Its been made clear since that they can report on his arrest, and they have. 

[preacherman76]

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 7:31 PM, Paranormal Panther said:

Is that why Tommy got thirteen months for exercising his free speech rights(?)? I like some British members on this forum, so I will refrain from saying more on this matter at this time. I just shake my head at what is taking place in the land that birthed John Locke and Adam Smith, two of the most profound influences on the success of my own country. They may even think of themselves as honorary Americans now that their country has embraced the path to totalitarianism. 

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Edited May 30, 2018 by preacherman76

[preacherman76]

On ‎5‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 9:17 AM, RabidMongoose said:

The trial of the Muslim rape gang has a media ban on it preventing all journalists from reporting on the case.

Tommy ignored that ban by recording the defendants entering the court and trying to interview them. The judge gave him a warning over this behaviour for contempt of court but decided to let him go on the condition he stopped making a nuisance of himself outside. The moron went back out and proceeded to carry on making his recorded article which I believe he intended to upload to Facebook and YouTube. The police therefore arrested him for public disorder, took him inside the court, and the judge reversed the warning for contempt of court issuing him with a prison sentence instead.

All people in this country are entitled to a fair trial and that includes a group of Muslims accused of paedophilic rape. Tommy just learned a harsh lesson - get in the way of a court trying to do its job and you get issued with a prison sentence. He will probably be out in 3 months if he appears to have learned his lesson but if he carries on in prison I can see him doing the full thirteen months. There is no conspiracy to silence him, no state picking on him, only a judge trying to run a criminal trial. I believe when Tommy went back outside he was actually trying to make out that all Muslims are paedophiles who will rape your daughters. Thats incitement.

He didn't try to interview the defendants. He never even mentioned a single one of their names. He was trying to shine a light on state sponsored rape gangs.

BTW since when are trials and defendants not reported on? I guess that only applies to pedo muslim rape gangs.

Edited May 30, 2018 by preacherman76