Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

Congrats to Irish women!


Timothy

Recommended Posts

Anyway I think the title of the thread is also off putting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, danydandan said:

I'm not going to respond to the home rule comment, it will get very heated in here if I do. But I will say we should have Our whole Island independently from an outside force, and that includes the EU.

I agree that the whole of Ireland should be one political entity as otherwise its messy and could suck the UK into a future conflict. But it is messy and is what it is.

We know a great deal of people in the Republic want a United Ireland, and that a lot of people in Northern Ireland want to stay in the UK. We hope that whatever the future holds that things remain peaceful between the different sides. In fact Britain goes out of its way to behave honourably and do the right thing. But we do not control or have power over what Sinn Fein does.

If conflict returns I`m quite sure it wont be the UK causing it, but we would no doubt get sucked into it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

I agree that the whole of Ireland should be one political entity as otherwise its messy and could suck the UK into a future conflict. But it is messy and is what it is.

We know a great deal of people in the Republic want a United Ireland, and that a lot of people in Northern Ireland want to stay in the UK. We hope that whatever the future holds that things remain peaceful between the different sides. In fact Britain goes out of its way to behave honourably and do the right thing. But we do not control or have power over what Sinn Fein does.

If conflict returns I`m quite sure it wont be the UK causing it, but we would no doubt get sucked into it.

You never know, Loyalists are just as bad as Republicans if not worse, because historically they have had the backing of the English government.

Edited by danydandan
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, danydandan said:

You never know, Loyalists are just as bad as Republicans if not worse, because historically they have had the backing of the English government.

You mean if Northern Ireland voted to leave the UK then the loyalists might also get violent? And you are concerned that might place the UK Government into a tricky situation sucking us in onto their side in a conflict?

I think to prevent violence that any referendum should wait until the later part of this century. So that most people alive during the IRA vs Loyalist years are long gone. Let it be a fresh generation without any of the baggage of the past who vote to remain or leave the United Kingdom.

If both sides start preparing the new generation now for it then hopefully they can have that referendum in the future, accept the result whether it be for or against, and keep the peace.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, RabidMongoose said:

You mean if Northern Ireland voted to leave the UK then the loyalists might also get violent? And you are concerned that might place the UK Government into a tricky situation sucking us in onto their side in a conflict?

I think to prevent violence that any referendum should wait until the later part of this century. So that most people alive during the IRA vs Loyalist years are long gone. Let it be a fresh generation without any of the baggage of the past who vote to remain or leave the United Kingdom.

If both sides start preparing the new generation now for it then hopefully they can have that referendum in the future, accept the result whether it be for or against, and keep the peace.

I agree if a referendum was to take place in the not so distant future, both sides will cause violent conflict. Honestly I only see Northern Ireland becoming more independent, I don't see it becoming a part of the Republic.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, danydandan said:

I agree if a referendum was to take place in the not so distant future, both sides will cause violent conflict. Honestly I only see Northern Ireland becoming more independent, I don't see it becoming a part of the Republic.

I think the passage of enough time is key to a peaceful outcome for any referendum be it remain in the UK, leave and join Ireland, or separation from both.

Can you imagine Scotland having an independence referendum in the 19th century? The UK would be in the midst of a civil war right now following the remain result. But when it occurred recently there was absolutely no violence. We need to get Northern Ireland to a similar place where people result Democratic results.

It also involves Republican and Loyalist families not bringing their children up to hate and fear the other side. And requires both Ireland and the UK to do the right thing.

Edited by RabidMongoose
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

Good, maybe my response is over the top but in my area of the UK the local high school has a nursey so that school girls can leave their children in them while going to classes. Watching 14 year olds pushing prams to school is a national disgrace.

So... exceptions then... 

Thought we shouldn't base decisions on them? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I regret the Irish abortion vote, but I respect it. If only Remainers would do similar

The abortion referendum result in Ireland has been widely welcomed here. The Remainers who never stop complaining about our Brexit referendum do not seem to be saying how disgraceful it is that the Irish people were allowed to choose. Their objections to “populism” and allowing people to make up their minds on very difficult subjects do not seem to apply in the case of the Republic.

Personally, I greatly regret the Irish result, because I think that, in matters of life or death, one should try to side with life; but I also think the subject was a fit one for a referendum. It is not – or should not be – a question for party politics. It concerns the country’s constitution. In the 1980s, the Irish electorate voted to put the abortion ban into their constitution. Now they have voted to take it out. That is their right. They are the best people to decide.

The same goes for Brexit...

Don't impose abortion on NI

Some British ministers are now campaigning for Northern Ireland to allow abortion too. They should be careful. The government of Northern Ireland is devolved, so Westminster cannot suddenly step in and make its decisions for it – unless we re-impose direct rule, which the Government is at great pains to avoid.

The other error is a more tactical one. To argue that a change in the South demands a change in the North is not clever. The Ulster majority rarely take kindly to the thought. Indeed, their entire existence as a majority depends on the fact that they did not accept what the Republic wanted.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/27/regret-irish-abortion-vote-respect-remainers-would-do/

Edited by Black Monk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, danydandan said:

In my opinion, brexit was an anti government vote rather than an anti EU vote. But I fully respect the result and no there should not be a second referendum, unless there is obvious puplic opinion to have one. The only issue I have with brexit is what it might do to peace in the North. Now we have Sinn Fein calling for a United Ireland vote, it's gonna end in lives bring lost again unfortunately.

And I fully understand why people are disappointed in the result, but it has to be respected.

We live in a democracy after all, for good or bad.

funny lot the Irish, grappling with Abortion, Religion and Terrorism. when will they join the civilised world.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

funny lot the Irish, grappling with Abortion, Religion and Terrorism. when will they join the civilised world.

Homosexuality was made legal in the Republic of Ireland only in 1993. And a lot of people in that country seem to they they are more progressive than the "backward, racist, Brexit-supporting" British.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, Black Monk said:

Homosexuality was made legal in the Republic of Ireland only in 1993. And a lot of people in that country seem to they they are more progressive than the "backward, racist, Brexit-supporting" British.

Where to you gather that assumption from?

Here is an insight, Irish people generally don't give a **** what happens in the UK. Only issue people have with brexit is the impact it may or may not have on peace in the North.

 

40 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

funny lot the Irish, grappling with Abortion, Religion and Terrorism. when will they join the civilised world.

Aren't we all?

Funny lot the English, thinking they have the God given right to lord their opinion on everything on everyone. The sun does set on the British empire these days.

Edited by danydandan
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it a sad reflection on our times that so many abortions are performed because some people cannot be A**ed to use a proprietary prophylactic...but hey ho it all feeds into the instant-gratification-without-consequences culture that seems to dominate.

It is always a moral dilemma that I would not like to face because economics is a valid point as most certainly are the consequences of rape and incest or necessary medical interventionism. The flip-side of the argument are those who breed to gain more state benefits and larger free housing with scant regard or interest into the children they bring into this world. The simple fact of bringing children into this world whilst being fully dependent on State Welfare (in this I do not include those with life-long disabilities) should have serious negative consequences. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, keithisco said:

I think it a sad reflection on our times that so many abortions are performed because some people cannot be A**ed to use a proprietary prophylactic...but hey ho it all feeds into the instant-gratification-without-consequences culture that seems to dominate.

It is always a moral dilemma that I would not like to face because economics is a valid point as most certainly are the consequences of rape and incest or necessary medical interventionism. The flip-side of the argument are those who breed to gain more state benefits and larger free housing with scant regard or interest into the children they bring into this world. The simple fact of bringing children into this world whilst being fully dependent on State Welfare (in this I do not include those with life-long disabilities) should have serious negative consequences. 

I agree with all you say.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

Only issue people have with brexit is the impact it may or may not have on peace in the North.

If terrorism breaks out in Northern Ireland again it certainly won't be the fault of Brexit. It'll be the fault of the terrorists.
 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Black Monk said:

If terrorism breaks out in Northern Ireland again it certainly won't be the fault of Brexit. It'll be the fault of the terrorists.
 

True, but may or may not be Loyalists who start it and it may or may not be Republicans. There may even be a branch that want Independence from both the Republic and the UK.

Edited by danydandan
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brexit has the potential to increase the vote for a united Ireland, polls have already demonstrated an increase in support for a united Ireland should a hard border be imposed.

At present there would not be a vote for a united Ireland but if Brexit results in relatively slower economic benefits to the North v the south the situation could change to a position where the support for of a united Ireland begins to grow.

In such circumstances it not hard to contemplate that loyalist paramilitaries might engage in terrorist activity.

Likewise should a hard border be imposed which stops people freely moving between the countries, republican paramilitaries might view this as the UK government abandoning agreements made at the time of the Good Friday Agreement and might use this as justification for re-embarking on terrorist activity.

It may not be correct to blame Brexit but it has the capacity to be the spark.  

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

Brexit has the potential to increase the vote for a united Ireland, polls have already demonstrated an increase in support for a united Ireland should a hard border be imposed.

At present there would not be a vote for a united Ireland but if Brexit results in relatively slower economic benefits to the North v the south the situation could change to a position where the support for of a united Ireland begins to grow.

In such circumstances it not hard to contemplate that loyalist paramilitaries might engage in terrorist activity.

Likewise should a hard border be imposed which stops people freely moving between the countries, republican paramilitaries might view this as the UK government abandoning agreements made at the time of the Good Friday Agreement and might use this as justification for re-embarking on terrorist activity.

It may not be correct to blame Brexit but it has the capacity to be the spark.  

Definitely has that potential. Hopefully it won't come to that. Also I honestly think that the State economically can not afford a united Ireland.

 

Edited by danydandan
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@danydandan, thanks for your reply. It’s definitely a very deep and complicated issue, and it’s always much appreciated to have additional sincere opinions. 

It’s a difficult argument, however we look at it. 

In Australia, it sees like a realistic, comfortable and generally accepted reality, however it feels a lot more blurred whenever you try to get to the crux of the argument. 

I feel comfortable pro-choice, to an undefined extent. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, danydandan said:

Aren't we all?

Funny lot the English, thinking they have the God given right to lord their opinion on everything on everyone. The sun does set on the British empire these days.

I have Irish and English ancestors so Irish independence is always a strange one for me. I would like to see a federal UK and then give the Republic of Ireland the option of joining it. Devo max to England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, and the Republic of Ireland.

And with devo max in place we should give the opportunity to Canada, Australia, and New Zealand to join too. This isn't the 19th century, we have instant communication around the world now. It doesnt take a couple of months to get a letter to Australia from the Government. Heck lets have a Federal ASC realm - Angle-Saxon-Celt realm and get the USA on board too.

We are all the same civilization, so why are we fragmented all over the place?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

I have Irish and English ancestors so Irish independence is always a strange one for me. I would like to see a federal UK and then give the Republic of Ireland the option of joining it. Devo max to England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, and the Republic of Ireland.

And with devo max in place we should give the opportunity to Canada, Australia, and New Zealand to join too. This isn't the 19th century, we have instant communication around the world now. It doesnt take a couple of months to get a letter to Australia from the Government. Heck lets have a Federal ASC realm - Angle-Saxon-Celt realm and get the USA on board too.

We are all the same civilization, so why are we fragmented all over the place?

We are all fragmented due to people's not wanting to be dedicated to.

Ireland will never accept federation, we may accept an economic federation as it would be beneficial, however I don't see that happening either with the EU being as strong as it is. As it would cause conflict.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

I would like to see a federal UK and then give the Republic of Ireland the option of joining it

I can't see any situation where the the Republic would again become, formally, subservient to London. That said the UK and Ireland could/should work very closely together. They have more in common these days than they have in difference.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, danydandan said:

We are all fragmented due to people's not wanting to be dedicated to.

Ireland will never accept federation, we may accept an economic federation as it would be beneficial, however I don't see that happening either with the EU being as strong as it is. As it would cause conflict.

Thats the point of devo max - a common foreign policy, a common army with each member state contributing towards it. Everything else is devolved. Oh and the member citizens can travel around and work where they choose within the federation.

Edited by RabidMongoose
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Thats the point of devo max - a common foreign policy, a common army with each member state contributing towards it. Everything else is devolved. Oh and the member citizens can travel around and work where they choose within the federation.

It would simply not work at the moment, maybe in the future. As we would have to run another referendum to repeal our stance of neutrality. Therefore we could not meet with a foreign policy and an army that was not neutral. There already is a free movement of travel between Ireland and the UK, brexit I hope won't change this.

This federation would have to give each country an equal share of power and veto's etc I don't think that would happen to be honest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, danydandan said:

Anyway I think the title of the thread is also off putting.

I have to admit, I was surprised by it.

Even pro-choice people don't like abortion. 

We just understand that it's not a perfect world. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

Good, maybe my response is over the top but in my area of the UK the local high school has a nursey so that school girls can leave their children in them while going to classes. Watching 14 year olds pushing prams to school is a national disgrace.

If you're against abortion, then why does it bother you to see babies?

You realize that without reproductive rights, you'll see more of them...right?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.