Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Fila

The inherit bias regarding UFOs

Sceptics, scoffers and believers  

46 members have voted

  1. 1. Are all UFO reports lies, hoaxes and mis-IDs?

  2. 2. Is it possible that advanced ET life exists?

  3. 3. Can an advanced ET race visit Earth secretly?



217 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

Fila
18 minutes ago, Alien Origins said:

Yeah and anything or anyone crossing the galaxy from another star system beyond ours it would take hundreds if not thousands of years for them to reach us unless of course they have the Star Wars Light Speed Switch on board....

I'm actually liking the parallel universe theories coming out. Rather than them being extra-terrestrial.., they are from another universe or whatevs.(Just an idea everyone.., c'mon now. :) Chills. Think 'discussion' forum).

Alter-terrestrials? lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Emma_Acid
1 hour ago, Fila said:

I'm actually liking the parallel universe theories coming out. Rather than them being extra-terrestrial.., they are from another universe or whatevs.(Just an idea everyone.., c'mon now. :) Chills. Think 'discussion' forum).

Alter-terrestrials? lol.

Them? Who?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fila
59 minutes ago, Emma_Acid said:

Them? Who?

I don't know who. Its just a theory. An idea.

I don't have a chance to discuss this type of thing IRL.., that's why I come here, instead of discussing this on a science forum. Can you please be nice?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Emma_Acid
1 hour ago, Fila said:

I don't know who. Its just a theory. An idea.

I don't have a chance to discuss this type of thing IRL.., that's why I come here, instead of discussing this on a science forum. Can you please be nice?

I am nice. I'm very nice. But I do have quite a low tolerance for people who ignore logic in order to get the answers they want, especially when it come to science and critical thinking.

Maybe I need to be nicer.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
badeskov
7 hours ago, Fila said:

I don't know who. Its just a theory. An idea.

I don't have a chance to discuss this type of thing IRL.., that's why I come here, instead of discussing this on a science forum. Can you please be nice?

How is Emma not nice? How is asking questions not relevant? And what on earth does that have to do with being on a science discussion forum? 

Cheers,
Badeskov

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Minimalists
7 hours ago, Fila said:

I don't know who. Its just a theory. An idea.

I don't have a chance to discuss this type of thing IRL.., that's why I come here, instead of discussing this on a science forum. Can you please be nice?

Quote

that's why I come here, instead of discussing this on a science forum.

Even science knows that we live on the edge of what is known and unknown in the universe. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Essan
On 6/13/2018 at 6:33 AM, Fila said:

I am not going to ignore UFO reports because of the sheer amount of evidence, worldwide (from governments even) over such a large time frame. There's a lot of evidence for UFOs compared to something like nessy.., so I don't see this as a fair comparison.

Its is very fair comparison

There is incontrovertible evidence that UFOs exist (in the sense people see something in the sky they cannot identify)   There is zero evidence that they are alien spaceships. 

There is incontrovertible evidence that "Nessie" exists (in the sense people see something in Loch Ness they cannot identify).   There is zero evidence that it is an unidentified creature.

Edited by Essan
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fila
On 16/06/2018 at 6:27 AM, Essan said:

Its is very fair comparison

There is incontrovertible evidence that UFOs exist (in the sense people see something in the sky they cannot identify)   There is zero evidence that they are alien spaceships. 

I agree that we could make some comparisons (I.e. there is evidence for both UFOs and nessie etc).., but that's a very broad response. I was being more specific.

I agree that people mis-ID things that can later be identified. But.., I would call these IFOs now as they have been identified and are no longer unknown. 

I agree there is no hard evidence to prove UFOs are alien spaceships (hence the ET Hypothesis).., and the main point of this thread was to highlight that exact point. I'm glad you can see it.., but my other goal was for people to be objective and see it from both sides.

1 thing you left out from your post...

There are many reports of objects that don't match the description of any known object. This is what I would classify unidentified. There is evidence of UFOs, I am trying to gather the best one's here which are up for discussion: https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/314152-the-best-evidence-for-ufos/?do=findComment&comment=6461749  

Hessdallen being the closest to irrefutable evidence.., but its only 1 study. We will still need more observatories to confirm their findings.

If one observation station produces results.,. then that opens the door for others to replicate the observations/experiment and peer-review the data.

So in short.., I agree that we can make a comparison about there being evidence of people "seeing something".., for both UFOs and Nessie. So yes.., you are right. That would be a fair comparison.., but this was not my point.

Edited by Fila

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fila
On 16/06/2018 at 6:17 AM, badeskov said:

How is Emma not nice? How is asking questions not relevant? And what on earth does that have to do with being on a science discussion forum? 

Hi badeskov. You will notice when I first started to raise the idea of parallel beings.., I was very cautious and asked responses to be nice in advance.

After being here a few months.., I was predicting a very large backlash of frustrated posts like "Where is the proof.., who, where when? Where is the proof? You have nothing. OMG Fila" etc etc. These posts end up spamming across the thread.., and make the conversation harder to follow.

I attempted to ask everyone to be nice in response to the idea in advance. When Emma replied.,. I did get those questions.., but thank god it was Emma who didn't add the usually personal insults for even thinking that. I was still on edge from my recent dealings with some members who consistently post personal attacks.., so asked in advance again, in the hopes of preventing frustration beforehand. I am really making it a priority to reduce anger and frustration that many seem to have with me.., and reduce the amount of time / energy and thread space dedicated to me being an idiot for discussing new ideas.

Sorry if it seemed like I was accusing Emma of being rude in that post. I can see how that looks now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
freetoroam
3 minutes ago, Fila said:

., I was very cautious and asked responses to agree with me in advance.

There fixed it for you.:)

  • Like 2
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fila
2 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

There fixed it for you.:)

That's very clever freetoroam. I enjoyed your joke very much. I hope you have a lovely weekend.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Trelane
2 hours ago, Fila said:

Hi badeskov. You will notice when I first started to raise the idea of parallel beings.., I was very cautious and asked responses to be nice in advance.

After being here a few months.., I was predicting a very large backlash of frustrated posts like "Where is the proof.., who, where when? Where is the proof? You have nothing. OMG Fila" etc etc. These posts end up spamming across the thread.., and make the conversation harder to follow.

I attempted to ask everyone to be nice in response to the idea in advance. When Emma replied.,. I did get those questions.., but thank god it was Emma who didn't add the usually personal insults for even thinking that. I was still on edge from my recent dealings with some members who consistently post personal attacks.., so asked in advance again, in the hopes of preventing frustration beforehand. I am really making it a priority to reduce anger and frustration that many seem to have with me.., and reduce the amount of time / energy and thread space dedicated to me being an idiot for discussing new ideas.

Asking questions in response to a post is not, and should not be considered "backlash". If you imply tone or attitude by a response here, then that is your problem. Nice is not the same as professional or clinical. Some of the senior members have been addressing posts such as these for years. I'm fairly certain their nice meter hit empty years ago. SO you should learn to have thicker skin when  posting and not try to shape the discussion as you se fit to address your unwillingness to accept criticism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fila
2 hours ago, Trelane said:

Asking questions in response to a post is not, and should not be considered "backlash". If you imply tone or attitude by a response here, then that is your problem. Nice is not the same as professional or clinical. Some of the senior members have been addressing posts such as these for years. I'm fairly certain their nice meter hit empty years ago. 

Hi Trelane. Of course not. I did explain it wasn't specifically related to the response.., more anticipating future posts. I can see what badeskov (and now yourself) are saying. Its just that I have been put on edge each time I come here, I keep getting notifications from some, calling me names saying I am a liar, and people don't take me seriously because I am always wrong etc etc. I was just preempting the discussion turning sour.., but in a nice way. My tone was not rude.

My posts could easily be read as an attack if we read the 'tone' as harsh negative and angry. But in my head.., I am typing like a very respectful child, not demanding anything, merely asking in the nicest, most innocent tone possible.

Grade 8 English taught me its not possible to accurately gauge tone from written text. Its possible that we assign tone to people who are anonymous, similar to reading a book and creating the characters in your head. Then when you see the film its nothing like what you created. Its possible we assign negative tone of voice to anonymous people we don't like (i.e. me), and people we do like (your peers).

2 hours ago, Trelane said:

SO you should learn to have thicker skin when  posting and not try to shape the discussion as you se fit to address your unwillingness to accept criticism.

Constructive criticism is great. I'm all for that. I like your avatar picture. What is it from?

Edited by Fila

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Minimalists

The key word in "ETH" is "hypothesis"....It actually assumes facts that are not in evidence if you get right down to it. I do not have to explain to anyone here what the ETH is there are to many smart and knowledgable folks here...Again we need to remember what the "U" in UFO stands for "Unidentified". There are plenty of folks that have posted in this thread that take the stance of "I need more than just you saw it" and I agree....

File started this thread:

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/318431-how-to-document-ufo-sightings/

Which I thought was a good idea...But getting back to this thread in order to show that the ETH has any credibility at all your going to have to show that there is actual physical or trace evidence that would support the ETH...It's kinda like a criminal defense lawyer going into a court of law and telling a judge and jury that his client did not commit the crime and that they have to believe him! UFO witness statements fall into that category. I saw it you have to believe me!

I can accept the ETH for what it is an "hypothesis"...I cannot accept it based on the available evidence because that evidence (if any) does not support the hypothesis.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Horta
On 5/31/2018 at 11:36 AM, Fila said:

I think I see the problem with UFOlogy. There are 2 teams.., scoffers and believers.

I don't see it that way.

Reading many of your posts in this thread, I would be a "scoffer". Yet I don't agree with that. Give me good reasons to believe and I would be quite happy.

I know of at least 2 people who have genuinely observed aerial phenomena/craft in broad daylight at reasonably close range that they have no explanation for (myself and the person I was with), so I don't have a problem accepting that at least some people are claiming genuine UFO sightings (as in craft that they can't explain, more so than vague lights). I don't see why unexplained must equal aliens though, without compelling reasons to do that. That someone doesn't understand what they saw, doesn't mean there aren't people who would understand exactly what they were. Why wouldn't "I don't know" be a more intellectually honest explanation than "aliens"? I also realise and accept that the most anyone else can really do is go "cool story bro" lol.

Quote

The problem is that both sides have made up their minds.., and don't feel the need to pursue it scientifically to prove their conclusion.

Really? How can you study anecdotes scientifically? The best we can do is verify that people have observed "unidentified" aerial phenomena. Few would deny this happens.

It's the leap from this to "aliens", that is problematic. In effect a lot of people are claiming "IFO" (identifiable flying objects) when they unrealistically claim to know they are interstellar craft piloted by aliens.

It's probably impossible to demonstrate that aliens aren't visiting earth, so it's up to believers to demonstrate that they are if they expect people to believe. In this regard, and if they aren't after alien religious beliefs, they should be thankful of skeptics. Some of the claims should be verifiable.

Where are the scientific papers being submitted to journals regarding "implants", explaining why they are not from earth, for example? Surely in lieu of verification, believers themselves should be very critical of many of the claims within the ufo community itself if they want the subject to taken seriously.

Quote

This is what's wrong. Both sides claim to be 100% correct.

I don't even accept the existence of physical reality itself with 100% certainty lol.

Edited by Horta
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fila
On 16/06/2018 at 12:45 AM, Emma_Acid said:

I am nice. I'm very nice. But I do have quite a low tolerance for people who ignore logic in order to get the answers they want, especially when it come to science and critical thinking.

Maybe I need to be nicer.

Hi Emma_Acid. Its okay. I am a very blunt person. When I type straight to the point.., it comes across as demanding and rude. But it isn't.

We discussed critical thinking at uni. There was an article suggesting that Early childhood education should be more focused on critical thinking than the current system of read, repeat, remember and recite.., as this only rewards people who can (basically) copy and paste. Its only testing these abilities and doesn't reflect intellect. It just shows who has a good memory.., which isn't a requirement for many positions as long as you can show you understand the process.., and prove you can adequately obtain unbiased information when needed.

Looking at both sides objectively, and questioning assumptions and initial conclusions.., from ourselves and information provided by others. I am all for critical thinking even though people tell me I shouldn't be looking into all aspects objectively.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fila
10 hours ago, Horta said:

I don't see it that way.

I don't see why unexplained must equal aliens though, without compelling reasons to do that. That someone doesn't understand what they saw, doesn't mean there aren't people who would understand exactly what they were. Why wouldn't "I don't know" be a more intellectually honest explanation than "aliens"? I also realise and accept that the most anyone else can really do is go "cool story bro" lol.

Its not automatic. I think some people are just convinced that ETs are here.., as much as the other side is convinced its impossible. Herein lies the problem. No one is in the middle doing anything to find out. We've all made up our minds and there is no need for further inquiry.

I agree that we can't jump to ETs being the culprits. To me.., neither side makes much sense. I don't think the government is capable of covering up this phenomena. It just seems like a silly movie plot starring Will Smith. But then it also doesn't make sense that

1 UFOs being reported circa 1940 with various governments around the world investigating them, and actually getting data.

2. The descriptions of advanced flying machines that still outmatch anything known by today's standards.

So I ask myself.., if they were owned by the Russian's or another country.., why didn't they use it to go to the moon? Why not use it to win the war on terrorism? Why aren't we seeing these things today?

From my understanding UFOs have not been officially explained.., just deemed 'not a threat'. So were all these UFO reports from highly trained observers and other reputable witnesses just lies? Hallucinations? Some type of energy source we could harness?

The main problem (and the real point of this thread) is that we make assumptions on what happened. We say "Oh look.., its most likely this". "Its most likely that.., and I think this.... etc" Which is not conclusive. This only fuels the conspiracy theories. You can't convince a "believer" because you technically can't disprove it. Just as they technically cannot prove UFOs are ET.

But.., neither side can see this. :(

 

10 hours ago, Horta said:

It's the leap from this to "aliens", that is problematic. In effect a lot of people are claiming "IFO" (identifiable flying objects) when they unrealistically claim to know they are interstellar craft piloted by aliens.

It's probably impossible to demonstrate that aliens aren't visiting earth, so it's up to believers to demonstrate that they are if they expect people to believe. In this regard, and if they aren't after alien religious beliefs, they should be thankful of skeptics. Some of the claims should be verifiable.

Where are the scientific papers being submitted to journals regarding "implants", explaining why they are not from earth, for example? Surely in lieu of verification, believers themselves should be very critical of many of the claims within the ufo community itself if they want the subject to taken seriously.

I agree.

Personally I'd rather come into it without a conclusion. I don't want to say what it is.., I just want to study it.

11 hours ago, Horta said:

I don't even accept the existence of physical reality itself with 100% certainty lol.

You might like this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L45Q1_psDqk

Edited by Fila

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
joc
On 5/31/2018 at 12:15 AM, ChrLzs said:

To date, no convincing evidence of extra-terrestrial visitation of earth has been presented.

Apologies first because...there is no way I could even begin to have enough patience or interest to read this entire thread.

Secondly, as per the above quote:  What more really is there to say on the subject?  There isn't any proof.  Besides that, the immense distances between star systems would make it ....impossible.

And as ChrLzs also said...if and when there is proof...I'll go with the Proof.  Until then....it's all sci fi.  

Is there life out there somewhere?  We don't know and we never will.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Emma_Acid
11 hours ago, Fila said:

Hi Emma_Acid. Its okay. I am a very blunt person. When I type straight to the point.., it comes across as demanding and rude. But it isn't.

We discussed critical thinking at uni. There was an article suggesting that Early childhood education should be more focused on critical thinking than the current system of read, repeat, remember and recite.., as this only rewards people who can (basically) copy and paste. Its only testing these abilities and doesn't reflect intellect. It just shows who has a good memory.., which isn't a requirement for many positions as long as you can show you understand the process.., and prove you can adequately obtain unbiased information when needed.

In other words, knowledge without application is useless.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Timothy

@Fila, you have a unique way of antagonising people, which is why your threads turn out like this. 

I’ve brought it up with you before, whether it’s deliberate or not is a different story. 

Things that may help are not using ‘1’ and ‘one’ interchangeably, and also not playing the ‘I learned it at uni’ card. 

I know that I sound snarky, I generally try not to be, but it sometimes cannot be helped. 

  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
psyche101
On 6/15/2018 at 8:04 PM, Alien Origins said:

Yeah and anything or anyone crossing the galaxy from another star system beyond ours it would take hundreds if not thousands of years for them to reach us unless of course they have the Star Wars Light Speed Switch on board....

Exactly  people place far too much hope on FTL. We don't know of it would close the gaps at all. If we could achieve 4 x the speed of light, we could get to the closest star in one year, and others are significantly further than that, which I feel is returning us to generational ships again anyway. It strikes me as an equivalent to landing on the moon, while am impressive feat, its not opening up the universe to us for visitation. 

Time dilation is a great way to get further faster but only for the crew, which seems to remove the advantage it offers for learning. 

I often wonder if we sent a space telescope out past pluto if it might offer significant learning opportunity and I always rho gut it would be a great idea to stick cameras on passing comets and meteors. But it might not be viable, it just seems like a good idea to me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
psyche101
On 6/15/2018 at 8:22 PM, Fila said:

I'm sorry.., but I think I will no longer be able to communicate with you. This type of attitude is for children. Actually.., no. For teens. My 9yo cousin is more polite and civilised than this.

I need each response to move the conversation forward. All you do is draaaag things out so much, I am forced to limit my responses. I attempt to make things concise. I have cut back my replies.., and your posts have dragged it out even longer. I cut back my responses.., and you manage to draaaaag it out again to a similar size. Your posts are way too long due to your responses being emotional reactions, rather than concise answers in an attempt to move forwards. 

Its getting a bit much mate, sorry. I don't have the time for you anymore.

I need to avoid anyone who attacks me personally from now on. If you wish to speak to me in the future.., keep it civil. If you wish to respond.., please pick you best questions. I won't bother reviewing our old conversation for now. I just don't have the time.

I'm going to send you a PM in the hopes of establishing some kind of 'cease fire' with personal attacks. I just want to discuss data.., not who was wrong. That just creates a negative environment to talk.

Even if I am wrong about something.., I don't care about being wrong. I just care about learning, and getting it right in the end. Lets just help each other. If you know something.., just tell me.

I think you do care about geing wrong and I think your approach to Phoenix and Rendlesham show exactly what elements of your pursuit interest you most. I don't see how discussing the wild elements and taking obvious fabrications as Gospel is an honest approach. 

You cannot answer the questions posed, you can't explain your approach so your bowing out. I understand and that's all good. As others have pointed out, your approach is arrogant and rude  and I think your support of sources like the phoenix witnesses with uncorroborated claims and support of complete and utter charlatans like Penniston and Halt well support that assessment. You keep blaming everyone but yourself for failed discussions when clearly you are the common denominator here. 

You don't have to bother yourself with an answer either as it seems too much for you. I don't find your replies to be genuine in nature anyway. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fila
13 hours ago, Timonthy said:

@Fila, you have a unique way of antagonising people, which is why your threads turn out like this. 

I’ve brought it up with you before, whether it’s deliberate or not is a different story. 

Things that may help are not using ‘1’ and ‘one’ interchangeably, and also not playing the ‘I learned it at uni’ card. 

I know that I sound snarky, I generally try not to be, but it sometimes cannot be helped. 

Yes, I deliberately mentioned I learned it at uni. I'm sorry this is offensive., but I don't see it.  How is this different from me saying "I learnt this in the Army"?

"I learnt about FLIR in the Airfroce." 

"I learnt something while at work today".

Can you please explain the difference?

Yes.., I did use '1' and then in a later sentence say 'one'. I actually changed my mind, and didn't edit the first time I said '1'. Hope this didn't cause too much drama for everyone.., but judging from the amount of 'likes' on that post, its a touchy subject.

I'll try and be more careful in the future

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fila
35 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I think you do care about geing wrong and I think your approach to Phoenix and Rendlesham show exactly what elements of your pursuit interest you most. I don't see how discussing the wild elements and taking obvious fabrications as Gospel is an honest approach. 

You cannot answer the questions posed, you can't explain your approach so your bowing out. I understand and that's all good. As others have pointed out, your approach is arrogant and rude  and I think your support of sources like the phoenix witnesses with uncorroborated claims and support of complete and utter charlatans like Penniston and Halt well support that assessment. You keep blaming everyone but yourself for failed discussions when clearly you are the common denominator here. 

You don't have to bother yourself with an answer either as it seems too much for you. I don't find your replies to be genuine in nature anyway. 

Sorry mate.., but I don't have time for childish conversations anymore. I am no longer responding to accusations about being wrong (even if I was wrong about something.., I don't care). If you believe I am wrong.., please provide an example and I will address the issue.

If you feel my posts are 'rude' and 'arrogant'.., then that's your issue that you have created in your head, as tone in written text can be ambiguous.., and my posts are very neutral.., and don't contain personal attacks. I suggest re-reading my posts with a different tone of voice in your head,

I have sufficiently explained each accusation when examples have been provided.

Making blanket statements without providing evidence is just an attempt at defamation. Please stop repeating your propaganda.

I hope these attempts are obvious to all forum members. If not, please help to explain what is going on.., as I am making it a priority to have this finally sorted out once and for all. I will be contacting as many forum moderators as possible for advice.., and asking a variety of your peers on help deciphering the actual problems here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
psyche101
On 6/15/2018 at 8:30 PM, Fila said:

I'm actually liking the parallel universe theories coming out. Rather than them being extra-terrestrial.., they are from another universe or whatevs.(Just an idea everyone.., c'mon now. :) Chills. Think 'discussion' forum).

Alter-terrestrials? lol.

The 'them' illustrates that you do champion a 'piloted vehicle' idea. 

And your asking why there are no studies? It's because pop culture items don't require serious studies, they explain themselves. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.