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Brother_Spirit

Assad tells U.S. to get out of Syria

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Captain Risky
2 hours ago, Brother_Spirit said:

The Syrian government should control it's oil and gas reserves.

it should but the reality is that Russia will be telling Assad who, where, when and how much. 

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Piney
13 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

I think that is an excellent idea.

Of course, this might cause considerable unemployment in the USA. The "weapons sales" to Israel are - in essence - a subsidy to the US arms manufacturers courtesy of the US taxpayer. Nevertheless, it is the right thing to do. 

Providing, of course, all subsidies weapons sales to Egypt, Saudi, Jordan etcetera are ALSO stopped ? 

Didn't say anything about selling the stuff. I'm talking about giving it away.

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RoofGardener
3 hours ago, Piney said:

Didn't say anything about selling the stuff. I'm talking about giving it away.

Good point Piney. Well, I'd approve of stopping that policy (which was only created in the FIRST place to (a) protect sales of the F15 from the prospective "Lavi" development program, and (b) to counter the giveaway of Soviet aircraft to the middle east as part of the "Weapons for Influence" program. )

If Israel is deprived of "give-away" US weapons, then they will simply re-activate programs like the "Lavi" - among many others - and become not only more  independent of US weapons sales, but actually an (even bigger) competitor to the USA on the international arms marketplace. 

Sooooo.. a bit of a "win-win" ? The USA left-wing/liberal's can rejoice that they no longer support Israel's military, Israel will get more money (in the medium and long terms), along with better weapons systems, and lots of people in the USA will be made redundant, supporting Donald Trumps bid for a third term ? 

Ummmmm ? 

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and then
21 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Good point Piney. Well, I'd approve of stopping that policy (which was only created in the FIRST place to (a) protect sales of the F15 from the prospective "Lavi" development program, and (b) to counter the giveaway of Soviet aircraft to the middle east as part of the "Weapons for Influence" program. )

If Israel is deprived of "give-away" US weapons, then they will simply re-activate programs like the "Lavi" - among many others - and become not only more  independent of US weapons sales, but actually an (even bigger) competitor to the USA on the international arms marketplace. 

Sooooo.. a bit of a "win-win" ? The USA left-wing/liberal's can rejoice that they no longer support Israel's military, Israel will get more money (in the medium and long terms), along with better weapons systems, and lots of people in the USA will be made redundant, supporting Donald Trumps bid for a third term ? 

Ummmmm ? 

I don't think there is any doubt that support for Israel is headed for a demographic cliff.  Probably within the next 10 years or less.  When it comes, Israel's enemies will move against her in unison, thinking that by overwhelming her, she might blink at going down in a Samson-style blaze.  I'm pretty sure that no government in Israel, no matter how hard-Left it might come to be, will ever forget what awaits them upon surrender to their Arab/Muslim enemies.  That sets the stage for a global war when nukes start getting thrown about.  And those on the Left - the so-called Progressives - are either stuck on stupid or actually hate Jews SO MUCH that they're willing to risk everything to remove them, once for all.

Interesting times, what?

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Ellapennella
1 hour ago, and then said:

 

I want to ask you something and then    is it true that Assad kept the Christians safe for years over there? 

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10 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

I want to ask you something and then    is it true that Assad kept the Christians safe for years over there? 

My understanding is that he did not persecute them in the manner that is done in other majority Muslim countries.  I don't know if he actively protected them but he might have done.  

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Ellapennella
6 minutes ago, and then said:

My understanding is that he did not persecute them in the manner that is done in other majority Muslim countries.  I don't know if he actively protected them but he might have done.  

 My husband had mentioned that he would  hate to see that place get destroyed    because he kept the Christians safe. He doesn't like whats going on with  Assad  though he said that. 

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2 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

 My husband had mentioned that he would  hate to see that place get destroyed    because he kept the Christians safe. He doesn't like whats going on with  Assad  though he said that. 

There's no doubt that Syria, by comparison, was a more secular state than most Muslim-majority states.  It was still a pretty brutal place to live unless you toed the government line.  Apparently, this kind of rigid discipline is the only way to keep Muslim EXTREMISTS/FUNDAMENTALISTS from causing abject chaos.

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Captain Risky
10 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

 My husband had mentioned that he would  hate to see that place get destroyed    because he kept the Christians safe. He doesn't like whats going on with  Assad  though he said that. 

your husband is not the only one left scratching his head on why the west ended up on the wrong side of this tragic war. a secular and generally tolerate middle east dictator, being protective and fair with the regions scapegoats of Christians, Druze and Yazidis being removed by the very nation that purports to defend personal freedom, religion and expression. the foundations for western involvement in the Syria war were built on a swamp of lies and a warped sense of realpolitik and the wars end result is reflective of this. 

 

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Captain Risky
10 hours ago, and then said:

My understanding is that he did not persecute them in the manner that is done in other majority Muslim countries.  I don't know if he actively protected them but he might have done.  

Turkey and Iraq have wiped out their religious minorities. there are none is Saudi Arabia or the rest of the Middle East. the only surviving Christian, Druze and Yazidis are found in only four places... Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Iran. and if the West continues in the same spirt as in Iraq and Syria there will be no Christians left in the Middle East. 

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Ellapennella
3 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

your husband is not the only one left scratching his head on why the west ended up on the wrong side of this tragic war. a secular and generally tolerate middle east dictator, being protective and fair with the regions scapegoats of Christians, Druze and Yazidis being removed by the very nation that purports to defend personal freedom, religion and expression. the foundations for western involvement in the Syria war were built on a swamp of lies and a warped sense of realpolitik and the wars end result is reflective of this. 

 

I've been trying to figure out  something .  How did Islam become so oppressive towards women ? For example was Afghanistan  & the Wahhabi of  Saudi Arabia always so cruel towards women ?  Was this the way life really was for women 2000 years ago in the middle east?   it's so horrible  I feel so bad for them I want to free them from that  and like and then said   if there is no strong leadership the men rise up   is it because of Islam?   Where does this come from?  

 

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Ellapennella
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

your husband is not the only one left scratching his head on why the west ended up on the wrong side of this tragic war. a secular and generally tolerate middle east dictator, being protective and fair with the regions scapegoats of Christians, Druze and Yazidis being removed by the very nation that purports to defend personal freedom, religion and expression. the foundations for western involvement in the Syria war were built on a swamp of lies and a warped sense of realpolitik and the wars end result is reflective of this. 

 

Another thing   I don't know what exactly goes on with these leaders   behind the scene in the middle east     do they support and fund  anyone  like how Iran has always done and how we know Turkey does.  are there any  ulterior motives  of deception   like smiling in our faces while  making deals to what they really pledge allegiance to  ?  I can't just blame western culture     not when I see how the culture is there if there's not strong leadership . 

Edited by Ellapennella
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Captain Risky
On 6/5/2018 at 12:52 PM, and then said:

There's no doubt that Syria, by comparison, was a more secular state than most Muslim-majority states.  It was still a pretty brutal place to live unless you toed the government line.  Apparently, this kind of rigid discipline is the only way to keep Muslim EXTREMISTS/FUNDAMENTALISTS from causing abject chaos.

C'mon and then, Assad is/was a natural ally for Israel and the west that should have been courted and befriended. the war was a proxy job against Iran and Russia. Israel and America *****ed up. 

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1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

C'mon and then, Assad is/was a natural ally for Israel and the west that should have been courted and befriended. the war was a proxy job against Iran and Russia. Israel and America *****ed up. 

Israel had no reason to try to remove him.  He was the best of a very bad potential lot.  I have no idea what motivated my government to get involved, I just hope we don't get bogged down there for a long time.

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Ellapennella
3 hours ago, and then said:

Israel had no reason to try to remove him.  He was the best of a very bad potential lot.  I have no idea what motivated my government to get involved, I just hope we don't get bogged down there for a long time.

I think I have an idea... 

5 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

C'mon and then, Assad is/was a natural ally for Israel and the west that should have been courted and befriended. the war was a proxy job against Iran and Russia. Israel and America *****ed up. 

I think that President Trump has no option but to clean up the messes that the Bush administration and the Obama administration left. Bush lied about the weapons of mass destruction and the Obama administration made everything worse , Obama and Hilary both made everything worse. Trump from what I'm seeing is a great leader unlike the others mentioned.

 

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17 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

I think I have an idea... 

I think that President Trump has no option but to clean up the messes that the Bush administration and the Obama administration left. Bush lied about the weapons of mass destruction and the Obama administration made everything worse , Obama and Hilary both made everything worse. Trump from what I'm seeing is a great leader unlike the others mentioned.

 

I agree with you but I just pray that if Syria is important enough to spend the lives and futures of our armed forces members, it will be important enough to go in, eliminate whatever the threat IS and speedily walk away.  Islamic insurgencies are the bloodiest of blood sponges.

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Mr.United_Nations

Syria won't threaten America come on...

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The Caspian Hare

With ISIS essentially destroyed I think we should leave and eventually draw down throughout the region and not get involved in their disputes. The US is energy independent now. There is no reason to be drawn into these Mideast conflicts. They have to solve their own problems.

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On 6/18/2018 at 5:11 PM, Mr.United_Nations said:

Syria won't threaten America come on...

The national military of Syria is not the problem, never really was.  Syria is just the crime scene where an Islamic proxy-war is underway.  Now that ISIS has been crippled, mostly, the Sunni and Shia will consolidate their areas and since Iran represents the Shia, they will eventually try to attack Israel.  It has already begun, actually.  They flew an armed drone into Israeli territory and got punched in the teeth for it.  

 

On 6/18/2018 at 6:35 PM, The Caspian Hare said:

With ISIS essentially destroyed I think we should leave and eventually draw down throughout the region and not get involved in their disputes. The US is energy independent now. There is no reason to be drawn into these Mideast conflicts. They have to solve their own problems.

 

The only way we avoid that - even transiently - is to break our relations with Israel.  Otherwise, we would have to respond from a much less well-prepared position when Israel is attacked.  Such an eventual attack is guaranteed, in time.  Iran is a regional player and has a well-known hatred and desire for the annihilation of Israel.  Israel stands as the only regional player that can stop Iranian hegemony.  In short, allowing them to sort "their own problems" will eventually lead to a war where Israel may well have to escalate to the use of nukes.  THAT has been a problem since at least 1973.

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The Caspian Hare
8 hours ago, and then said:

The only way we avoid that - even transiently - is to break our relations with Israel.  Otherwise, we would have to respond from a much less well-prepared position when Israel is attacked.  Such an eventual attack is guaranteed, in time.  Iran is a regional player and has a well-known hatred and desire for the annihilation of Israel.  Israel stands as the only regional player that can stop Iranian hegemony.  In short, allowing them to sort "their own problems" will eventually lead to a war where Israel may well have to escalate to the use of nukes.  THAT has been a problem since at least 1973.

To be quite honest I am getting very tired of ISrael and its powerful lobby in the US that virtually dictates policy to us, one-sided support for Israel has created for us many enemies and we get dragged into their conflict unnecessarily. 

Do not get me wrong I am not pacifist, I am for war in case of direct self-defense or extreme provocation, but not meddling in volatile regions and the disputes of foreigners. And definitely not for a foreign country having so much control over us. :hmm:

 

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1 hour ago, The Caspian Hare said:

To be quite honest I am getting very tired of ISrael and its powerful lobby in the US that virtually dictates policy to us, one-sided support for Israel has created for us many enemies and we get dragged into their conflict unnecessarily. 

Do not get me wrong I am not pacifist, I am for war in case of direct self-defense or extreme provocation, but not meddling in volatile regions and the disputes of foreigners. And definitely not for a foreign country having so much control over us. :hmm:

 

That's fine, though I happen to think that there is still value in a U.S. Israel alliance in the region.  My point is that the reality in the world today regarding Israel is that several Arab Muslim nations and one very large Persian Muslim nation would cheerfully surround and antagonize Israel until a war began.  The IDF is powerful enough - with American spare parts for the aircraft - to handily defeat any one or two of them in relatively short order unless they decide to use WMD like chemical or biological weapons atop those advanced missiles that Hizballah has - via Iran.  The use of any mass-casualty weapon that kills thousands of Israelis - ESPECIALLY with gas - could lead to an escalation that the world is not ready for today, maybe ever.  Israel is the one nation that could justify the first use of nukes and it would not surprise me at all.  Nor would I blame them if they had just been subjected to a chem/bio attack by ballistic missiles into a major city.  

Standing with Israel is in the vital self-interest of the U.S.  If they used nukes, we would not escape the consequences, we just couldn't and that is the reality.

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