Andrew Collins, Gobekli Tepe, and Enoch

[Hermai]

Most 'in the know' truth-seekers are already aware of Gobekli Tepe and its implications regarding the errors in academia's dating of humanity's origins. It is getting more and more difficult to support traditional historical hypotheses regarding the development of humankind. The discovery of Gobekli Tepe has turned the archaeological world on its head. Unfortunately, not many archaeologists have come to grips with this as of yet. And yet, the discovery of what seems to be a ritual site with its T-shaped standing stones embedded in circular stone walls and free standing monoliths, standing stones representing figures of some kind set in twos in the center, dating back to 10,000 BC - when no such site "should" have existed - demands that we reevaluate our traditional concepts of progress and development. Who built it? Why did they build it? How? And how - especially in light of traditional ideas that placed development of temples and organized ritual sites - like Gobekli Tepe - sequentially after the development of cities - did the builders find and feed enough people to maintain the workforce that presumably would have been required to construct - and fill in - this site?

Andrew Collins offers well-researched speculation here in his attempts to answer these questions. The double-edged sword that is the History Channel's "Ancient Aliens" means that Collins and his work is now better known, yet also regarded with some degree of skepticism, fueled by some in the mainstream who are quick to label all of it "UFO quackery". But this exploration of the possibilities of what Gobekli Tepe is and what it means is far more complex and well-researched than those skeptics might credit. As Collins freely admits, sometimes he makes intuitive leaps - and why not? Knowledgeable intuition is responsible for most of humankind's advances.

Chronicling his travels to Göbekli Tepe and surrounding sites, Andrew Collins details the layout, architecture, and exquisite relief carvings of ice age animals and human forms found at this 12,000-year-old megalithic complex, now recognized as the oldest stone architecture in the world. He explores how it was built as a reaction to a global cataclysm--the Great Flood in the Bible--and explains how it served as a gateway and map to the sky-world, the place of first creation, reached via a bright star in the constellation of Cygnus. He reveals those behind its construction as the Watchers of the Book of Enoch and the Anunnaki gods of Sumerian tradition. 

Unveiling Göbekli Tepe’s foundational role in the rise of civilization, Collins shows how it is connected to humanity’s creation in the Garden of Eden and the secrets Adam passed to his son Seth, the founder of an angelic race called the Sethites. In his search for Adam’s legendary Cave of Treasures, the author discovers the Garden of Eden and the remains of the Tree of Life--in the same sacred region where Göbekli Tepe is being uncovered today.

Unlike some of his critics in academia, Collins is not stating his ideas are unequivocally THE answers. They open up the conversation - what did occur in the period dismissed as "pre-history"? As a reader, I was left wanting more support for some of Collins' hypotheses. Others, I found mind-blowing in their possibilities. I enjoyed the intellectual stimulation involved in entertaining the new paradigms he offered, and having my curiosity stoked.

[Piney]

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/review-of-the-cygnus-key-by-andrew-collins-part-1

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/review-of-the-cygnus-key-by-andrew-collins-part-2

[Piney]

Quote

Therefore, he says in triumph, it is not entirely speculation to suggest that a lost white race of giant Denisovan Nephilim interbred with dark-skinned humans to birth the Aryan race—sorry, Indo-Europeans—and invent high civilization. Oh, and of course this region was also the paradise of Shamballa, or Shangri-La, as well as Hyperborea.
 

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/review-of-the-cygnus-key-by-andrew-collins-part-2

Except white folks don't have Denisovan genes. 

[Hermai]

11 minutes ago, Piney said:

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/review-of-the-cygnus-key-by-andrew-collins-part-1

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/review-of-the-cygnus-key-by-andrew-collins-part-2

 

7 minutes ago, Piney said:

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/review-of-the-cygnus-key-by-andrew-collins-part-2

Except white folks don't have Denisovan genes. 

Different books with different topics. Let's keep this discussion centered around Gobekli Tepe and whether Collins' interpretation of the various animal symbols on the stones is compelling. I agree, Collins is not the most reliable source, but this work begins with well documented archaeology before launching into his own 'out there' hypotheses. Some of which I find unique and thought-provoking, others which are entirely too speculative.

[Hermai]

11 minutes ago, Piney said:

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/review-of-the-cygnus-key-by-andrew-collins-part-1

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/review-of-the-cygnus-key-by-andrew-collins-part-2

 

7 minutes ago, Piney said:

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/review-of-the-cygnus-key-by-andrew-collins-part-2

Except white folks don't have Denisovan genes. 

Different books with different topics. Let's keep this discussion centered around Gobekli Tepe and whether Collins' interpretation of the various animal symbols on the stones is compelling. I agree, Collins is not the most reliable source, but this work begins with well documented archaeology before launching into his own 'out there' hypotheses. Some of which I find unique and thought-provoking, others which are entirely too speculative.

[Piney]

3 minutes ago, Hermai said:

Some of which I find unique and thought-provoking, others which are entirely too speculative.

Which ones? The ones that state it had to be a "advanced white race", because Lord knows we little brown people were too stupid to beat rocks together and needed assistance from "Aryans".

Edited June 1, 2018 by Piney

[Piney]

50 minutes ago, Hermai said:

Most 'in the know' truth-seekers are already aware of Gobekli Tepe and its implications regarding the errors in academia's dating of humanity's origins. 

[Piney]

53 minutes ago, Hermai said:

He reveals those behind its construction as the Watchers of the Book of Enoch and the Anunnaki gods of Sumerian tradition. 

[Hermai]

8 minutes ago, Piney said:

Which ones? The ones that state it had to be a "advanced white race", because Lord knows we little brown people were too stupid to beat rocks together and needed assistance from "Aryans".

Not an argument.

6 minutes ago, Piney said:

Also not an argument.

3 minutes ago, Piney said:

Still, lacking an argument.

[Piney]

20 minutes ago, Hermai said:

Not an argument.

Also not an argument.

Still, lacking an argument.

His racist views and "mass comparison" without knowing the actual meaning of religious motifs is not worth arguing.....

[Kenemet]

1 hour ago, Hermai said:

Most 'in the know' truth-seekers are already aware of Gobekli Tepe and its implications regarding the errors in academia's dating of humanity's origins. 

I think that some corrections need to be made.  The shift in dates is to the origin of civilization, not the origin of humans.  H. Sapiens originated around a million years ago, long before Gobekli Tepe.

Quote

It is getting more and more difficult to support traditional historical hypotheses regarding the development of humankind. The discovery of Gobekli Tepe has turned the archaeological world on its head. Unfortunately, not many archaeologists have come to grips with this as of yet.

Au contraire, it's been embraced and celebrated by archaeologists.  Archaeologists have been working on the site for around 30 years, and the field reports and information are widely cited in recent literature.

Quote

And yet, the discovery of what seems to be a ritual site with its T-shaped standing stones embedded in circular stone walls and free standing monoliths, standing stones representing figures of some kind set in twos in the center, dating back to 10,000 BC - when no such site "should" have existed - demands that we reevaluate our traditional concepts of progress and development. Who built it? Why did they build it? How? And how - especially in light of traditional ideas that placed development of temples and organized ritual sites - like Gobekli Tepe - sequentially after the development of cities - did the builders find and feed enough people to maintain the workforce that presumably would have been required to construct - and fill in - this site?

Actually, a lot of things at the site are from nearby culture centers.  So we know who the people were.  And it's only 20-30% excavated right now, so more answers will be forthcoming as the rest of the site is uncovered.

Quote

Andrew Collins offers well-researched speculation here in his attempts to answer these questions. The double-edged sword that is the History Channel's "Ancient Aliens" means that Collins and his work is now better known, yet also regarded with some degree of skepticism, fueled by some in the mainstream who are quick to label all of it "UFO quackery". But this exploration of the possibilities of what Gobekli Tepe is and what it means is far more complex and well-researched than those skeptics might credit. As Collins freely admits, sometimes he makes intuitive leaps - and why not? Knowledgeable intuition is responsible for most of humankind's advances.Chronicling his travels to Göbekli Tepe and surrounding sites, Andrew Collins details the layout, architecture, and exquisite relief carvings of ice age animals and human forms found at this 12,000-year-old megalithic complex, now recognized as the oldest stone architecture in the world. He explores how it was built as a reaction to a global cataclysm--the Great Flood in the Bible--and explains how it served as a gateway and map to the sky-world, the place of first creation, reached via a bright star in the constellation of Cygnus. He reveals those behind its construction as the Watchers of the Book of Enoch and the Anunnaki gods of Sumerian tradition. 

Collins doesn't pay attention to timelines or read much about science.  I loved him when I was a kid... right up until the point when i started reading about history.

• there's no evidence of a global flood anywhere, and mega-floods are rare
• No culture seems to have identified Cygnus as their origin
• The Book of Enoch was written some 9,000 years later by a culture that wasn't around until 8,000 years AFTER Gobekli Tepe (so if there was any truth to it, there would be older references to things in the Book of Enoch from the Sumerians, Akkadians, Babylonians, etc... and there aren't.)
• The Anunnaki are minor deities, not the major gods
• The first mention of the Annunaki comes around 7,000-8,000 years after Gobekli Tepe and they are (theologically speaking) a newer concept of the Sumerian religion rather than one of the first traditions.

Quote

Unveiling Göbekli Tepe’s foundational role in the rise of civilization, Collins shows how it is connected to humanity’s creation in the Garden of Eden and the secrets Adam passed to his son Seth, the founder of an angelic race called the Sethites. In his search for Adam’s legendary Cave of Treasures, the author discovers the Garden of Eden and the remains of the Tree of Life--in the same sacred region where Göbekli Tepe is being uncovered today.

Unlike some of his critics in academia, Collins is not stating his ideas are unequivocally THE answers. They open up the conversation - what did occur in the period dismissed as "pre-history"? As a reader, I was left wanting more support for some of Collins' hypotheses. Others, I found mind-blowing in their possibilities. I enjoyed the intellectual stimulation involved in entertaining the new paradigms he offered, and having my curiosity stoked.

Collins made much of that up.  Gobekli Tepe was not a foundation of civilization... civilization means you have cities, organized government, farms, and domesticated animals... not a temple in the middle of nowhere.  Humans came from Africa, not from the Middle East, there is no mention of the Cave of Treasures, and the Garden of Eden has been proposed to be in a number of places - the geography at Gobekli Tepe is not a match for the surrounding geography of the Garden of Eden: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_of_Eden#Proposed_locations

Collins is a superb author in that he can tell a story very engagingly.  But if you dissect what he says, as you found out, there's no actual support for the conclusions that he leaps to.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Kenemet

[Harte]

34 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

I think that some corrections need to be made.  The shift in dates is to the origin of civilization, not the origin of humans.  H. Sapiens originated around a million years ago, long before Gobekli Tepe.

I'd point out that Homo Habilis is also correctly termed human, and arose around 2 million years ago.

Harte

[cormac mac airt]

2 hours ago, Kenemet said:

I think that some corrections need to be made.  The shift in dates is to the origin of civilization, not the origin of humans.  H. Sapiens originated around a million years ago, long before Gobekli Tepe.

Au contraire, it's been embraced and celebrated by archaeologists.  Archaeologists have been working on the site for around 30 years, and the field reports and information are widely cited in recent literature.

Actually, a lot of things at the site are from nearby culture centers.  So we know who the people were.  And it's only 20-30% excavated right now, so more answers will be forthcoming as the rest of the site is uncovered.

Collins doesn't pay attention to timelines or read much about science.  I loved him when I was a kid... right up until the point when i started reading about history.

• there's no evidence of a global flood anywhere, and mega-floods are rare
• No culture seems to have identified Cygnus as their origin
• The Book of Enoch was written some 9,000 years later by a culture that wasn't around until 8,000 years AFTER Gobekli Tepe (so if there was any truth to it, there would be older references to things in the Book of Enoch from the Sumerians, Akkadians, Babylonians, etc... and there aren't.)
• The Anunnaki are minor deities, not the major gods
• The first mention of the Annunaki comes around 7,000-8,000 years after Gobekli Tepe and they are (theologically speaking) a newer concept of the Sumerian religion rather than one of the first traditions.

Collins made much of that up.  Gobekli Tepe was not a foundation of civilization... civilization means you have cities, organized government, farms, and domesticated animals... not a temple in the middle of nowhere.  Humans came from Africa, not from the Middle East, there is no mention of the Cave of Treasures, and the Garden of Eden has been proposed to be in a number of places - the geography at Gobekli Tepe is not a match for the surrounding geography of the Garden of Eden: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_of_Eden#Proposed_locations

Collins is a superb author in that he can tell a story very engagingly.  But if you dissect what he says, as you found out, there's no actual support for the conclusions that he leaps to.

Actually I'd like to make a couple of clarifications if I may: 

What is being touted as the earliest Homo sapiens from Jebel Irhoud, Morocco only dates to circa 315 ± 34 thousand years BP while the earliest member of humanity, meaning the genus Homo, dates to circa 2.8 My BP from Ledi-Geraru, Ethiopia. 

It should be pointed out that the Anunnaki are deities of the Underworld, land of the dead, and NOT sky gods. 

cormac

[jaylemurph]

4 hours ago, Piney said:

Which ones? The ones that state it had to be a "advanced white race", because Lord knows we little brown people were too stupid to beat rocks together and needed assistance from "Aryans".

Oh, don't worry. Anyone who chooses to use the term "Aryan" seriously is someone grossly out of touch with linguistics. Even further behind in anthropology/ethnology. I mean, you know that. Most regulars here know that. We all knew the OP threw away any chance of being taken seriously when he started a post referring to "in the know" truth-seekers, and then got his tailfeathers singed with three corrective posts in a row.

And we all know if he wants real truth, he should be referring to that seminal text in alt-history, We Were As Fleas on their Backs, available at all good rookeries, dives, warrens, opium dens and low-rent brothels.

--Jaylemurph

[Piney]

35 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:

Oh, don't worry. Anyone who chooses to use the term "Aryan" seriously is someone grossly out of touch with linguistics. --Jaylemurph

The Alans, Iranians and East Indians are "Aryan" but only if your "Noble" by action. You forget, nomadic horse cultures is one of my speci-alities. 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

5 hours ago, Piney said:

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/review-of-the-cygnus-key-by-andrew-collins-part-2

Except white folks don't have Denisovan genes. 

That’s because they donated those genes to the needy at a Saint Benedict of Nursia’s store.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

And, I do wish to comment on the book of Enoch - bloody no one accepts it as canonical and I vaguely recall a Christian Sect that incorporates part of Gospel According to Mary into their theology.

thats the one where Jesus gets all kissy-kissy with parts of Mary’s anatomy.

[Piney]

7 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

That’s because they donated those genes to the needy at a Saint Benedict of Nursia’s store.

I'll give my "High Altitude" gene. Just in case they have a smoker with COPD.

[jmccr8]

6 hours ago, Piney said:

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/review-of-the-cygnus-key-by-andrew-collins-part-2

Except white folks don't have Denisovan genes. 

Hi Piney

Yes and the Denisovans were not fair skinned anyway, the analysis of the finger bone found in the Alti site showed that they had dark hair eyes and skin.

jmccr8

Edited June 1, 2018 by jmccr8
Auto corrupt

[jaylemurph]

36 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

And, I do wish to comment on the book of Enoch - bloody no one accepts it as canonical and I vaguely recall a Christian Sect that incorporates part of Gospel According to Mary into their theology.

thats the one where Jesus gets all kissy-kissy with parts of Mary’s anatomy.

Ethiopians and Eritreans do!

Also, there's an Easter liturgical play from c. 1000 where Mary Magdalene meets Jesus (dressed as a gardener) and Jesus makes weird cryptic remarks about beating her and/or sexually assaulting her. Weird.

--Jaylemurph

Edited June 1, 2018 by jaylemurph

[ShadowSot]

2 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:

Ethiopians and Eritreans do!

Also, there's an Easter liturgical play from c. 1000 where Mary Magdalene meets Jesus (dressed as a gardener) and Jesus makes weird cryptic remarks about beating her and/or sexually assaulting her. Weird.

--Jaylemurph

Like with Star Wars the expanded universe gets a bit weird. 

[Kenemet]

4 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

Actually I'd like to make a couple of clarifications if I may: 

What is being touted as the earliest Homo sapiens from Jebel Irhoud, Morocco only dates to circa 315 ± 34 thousand years BP while the earliest member of humanity, meaning the genus Homo, dates to circa 2.8 My BP from Ledi-Geraru, Ethiopia. 

It should be pointed out that the Anunnaki are deities of the Underworld, land of the dead, and NOT sky gods. 

cormac

Whoops!  Off by a factor of 10!  That's what I get for not doublechecking my memory!

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

1 hour ago, jaylemurph said:

Ethiopians and Eritreans do!

Only because they like things that start with the letter “E”.

[docyabut2]

Quote

what gets me is Gobekli Tepe is new looking. The other claim in Spain  are newer looked older.there has to be a evolution of structures.

  ll

 Spain

Edited June 2, 2018 by docyabut2

[Swede]

28 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

 Spain

Kindly follow the relevant research. All indications are that the site was intentionally buried. These actions, combined with the climatic/geomorphological aspects aided in an appreciable level of preservation.