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Ellapennella

unusual social experiment

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Ellapennella

A church in Oakland, California, is urging its members never to call the police again.

Church leader Nichola Torbett said the First Congregational Church of Oakland, which is part of the United Church of Christ denomination, will never call the cops again in nearly every circumstance, and dozens of members of the congregation agreed to do the same.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/05/31/oakland-california-church-urges-congregation-never-call-police

This is dangerous .Looks like another identity politics tactic  against law enforcement.

 

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Truthseeker007

I guess they will leave it in Jesus's hands.:lol:

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Gromdor

Kid here in town got in a fight with his dad over cigarettes.  Got mad and hopped in his father's company truck and took off.  Dad thought he would teach the kid a lesson and called the police for a stolen vehicle.  Kid gets shot dead on campus.

Father was a little upset about the shooting dead part: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tyler-comstock-killing-iowa-police-shoot-unarmed-19-year-old-after-father-calls-authorities-to-report-the-teen-stole-his-truck/

So I guess I can see how calling the police all the time for every little thing might be bad.

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preacherman76

Man police are often dangerous people. I know every time I interact with them, just being polite and respectful seems to go a long way though. 

I know that isn’t everyone’s experience though. Even when someone is completely docile there is a risk of abuse. 

Thats for every race color and creed. I could tell ya really bad stories of friends of mine from when we were kids. 

Personally I only got roughed up once, but I had it coming. 

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Paranormal Panther
7 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Man police are often dangerous people. I know every time I interact with them, just being polite and respectful seems to go a long way though. 

I know that isn’t everyone’s experience though. Even when someone is completely docile there is a risk of abuse. 

Thats for every race color and creed. I could tell ya really bad stories of friends of mine from when we were kids. 

Personally I only got roughed up once, but I had it coming. 

I hear you. I almost always try to be nice and polite in a normal way because they might suspect something if I'm *too* cordial. I busted one cop when he looked for absolutely *any* reason to stop my car. An ex cop told me to "never trust a cop", and I tend to follow his advice (not saying that the police aren't to be trusted as a whole).

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Aquila King
11 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Man police are often dangerous people. I know every time I interact with them, just being polite and respectful seems to go a long way though. 

I know that isn’t everyone’s experience though. Even when someone is completely docile there is a risk of abuse. 

Thats for every race color and creed. I could tell ya really bad stories of friends of mine from when we were kids. 

Personally I only got roughed up once, but I had it coming. 

If only it were that simple for black folks in America...

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preacherman76
6 hours ago, Aquila King said:

If only it were that simple for black folks in America...

It is that simple most of the time. Black people have directly told me so. Do cops go way overboard sometimes? Of course. They do it to every race though 

  Area’s with extremely high violent crime are going to see more cases. 

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Farmer77

I teach my kids, don't call the cops unless the situation is so bad you're ready for someone to die. 

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Setton
31 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I teach my kids, don't call the cops unless the situation is so bad you're ready for someone to die. 

As the son of a police officer, I can't express how sad it makes me that one of the most advanced countries in the world trains its police so badly that the people they are there to protect are too afraid to call them. 

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preacherman76

Well the odds are very small that simply calling the police will result in death for anyone. 

Among those situations where someone dies, 9.8 out of 10 of those at least are justified.  

I personally don’t know anyone who was killed or even shot by police. 

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Faustus

I've certainly had a few run ins with cops that were total asshats.  However, the majority I've dealt with are just trying to do their job and get on to the next call.  As we've seen with the body cams, there are many incidents where perceived or alleged targeting and harassment by police were obviously just people pulling the race card and feeling entitled to special treatment.  There is another thread on it.  With that being said, there are some real jerks out there behind the badge, cooperating fully, and listening and obeying officer commands while showing respect can make one hell of a difference.  Drop the sense of entitlement in how you SHOULD be treated and just be polite, respectful, and compliant.  Don't be adversarial---trust me red, white, pink or purple it makes all the difference.  

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kartikg

So what will they do in case of a burglary or some domestic violence goes out of hand? 

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ChaosRose

I'm doubtful of anything Faux News reports. 

That said, I can understand why some communities are afraid to call police, even if they really need to. 

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Aquila King
6 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

It is that simple most of the time. Black people have directly told me so. Do cops go way overboard sometimes? Of course. They do it to every race though 

  Area’s with extremely high violent crime are going to see more cases. 

Whit privilege doesn't mean that your life hasn't been hard, it means that your skin color isn't one of the things making it harder.

Things like this happen on a regular basis, and are statistically proven to occur on a more frequent basis to black people as opposed to white people.

I'm a nerdy ass white boy with no black friends or really that many black people around me on a regular basis, yet even I have no problem admitting this.

I don't in the least bit understand why this is a debatable issue. Why is it so difficult to simply admit this statistical fact?

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Gromdor
1 hour ago, Faustus said:

I've certainly had a few run ins with cops that were total asshats.  However, the majority I've dealt with are just trying to do their job and get on to the next call.  As we've seen with the body cams, there are many incidents where perceived or alleged targeting and harassment by police were obviously just people pulling the race card and feeling entitled to special treatment.  There is another thread on it.  With that being said, there are some real jerks out there behind the badge, cooperating fully, and listening and obeying officer commands while showing respect can make one hell of a difference.  Drop the sense of entitlement in how you SHOULD be treated and just be polite, respectful, and compliant.  Don't be adversarial---trust me red, white, pink or purple it makes all the difference.  

Being respectful may work to reduce the shootings of rational people but what about the emotionally distraught, suicidal, mentally ill, drunk/stoned, or just plain surprised people?  Cops really aren't trained to handle them.

If a kid I knew was suicidal with a gun, I am extremely hesitant to call the cops on him if he is locked in his room and won't come out.  Same with the kid that argued with his dad over cigarettes and took the truck in my link for here in town.  Calling the cops just got him killed.  Should have just let him cool off and come home.  

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preacherman76
12 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

Whit privilege doesn't mean that your life hasn't been hard, it means that your skin color isn't one of the things making it harder.

Things like this happen on a regular basis, and are statistically proven to occur on a more frequent basis to black people as opposed to white people.

I'm a nerdy ass white boy with no black friends or really that many black people around me on a regular basis, yet even I have no problem admitting this.

I don't in the least bit understand why this is a debatable issue. Why is it so difficult to simply admit this statistical fact?

I know plenty of black people that would take offense to hearing that the color of their skin decides anything. 

The reason it happens more in black neighborhoods is because there is FAR more violent crime going on in such places. There is also far more openly committed crime in general. 

If crime levels were the same in white neighborhoods the results would be the same. Also it happens to white people all the time. 

As this video points out, till the real problems in these communities are addressed, like the vast majority of them being from Fatherless homes, these extremely disproportionate crimes will continue. 

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Aquila King
54 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

I know plenty of black people that would take offense to hearing that the color of their skin decides anything. 

The reason it happens more in black neighborhoods is because there is FAR more violent crime going on in such places. There is also far more openly committed crime in general. 

If crime levels were the same in white neighborhoods the results would be the same. Also it happens to white people all the time. 

As this video points out, till the real problems in these communities are addressed, like the vast majority of them being from Fatherless homes, these extremely disproportionate crimes will continue. 

Citing the example in my first link, if you consider loud music playing in your garage a crime punishable by death, then perhaps you might have a point.

Sigh... I'm being sarcastic here, but honestly it's hard to stomach even that level of lightheartedness of the situation. Yet at the same time I'm so exhausted from seeing these senseless killings happen so regularly that I'm emotionally drained from any real outrage... I'm mainly, just, sad...

If you aren't seeing these people being gunned down in cold blood on a regular basis and having no justice served for them, then you aren't paying attention.

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Paranormal Panther
3 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

I know plenty of black people that would take offense to hearing that the color of their skin decides anything. 

The reason it happens more in black neighborhoods is because there is FAR more violent crime going on in such places. There is also far more openly committed crime in general. 

If crime levels were the same in white neighborhoods the results would be the same. Also it happens to white people all the time. 

As this video points out, till the real problems in these communities are addressed, like the vast majority of them being from Fatherless homes, these extremely disproportionate crimes will continue. 

That links to something that I sometimes ponder. It's claimed that Black people and White people are sentenced differently when they're charged with cocaine crimes due to the fact that the former is more likely to use the crack form while the latter is more likely to use the powder form. It really would be helpful to see if there are differences when they're caught with the same forms of cocaine. For instance, are Black people with powder cocaine punished more than White people with powder cocaine, and the same applies with crack.

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Faustus
4 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Being respectful may work to reduce the shootings of rational people but what about the emotionally distraught, suicidal, mentally ill, drunk/stoned, or just plain surprised people?  Cops really aren't trained to handle them.

If a kid I knew was suicidal with a gun, I am extremely hesitant to call the cops on him if he is locked in his room and won't come out.  Same with the kid that argued with his dad over cigarettes and took the truck in my link for here in town.  Calling the cops just got him killed.  Should have just let him cool off and come home.  

I think most cops are trained to know and recognize the difference.  Some aren't, or are new to the force, and I agree that could result in bad shoots.  Cops have a tough job, as their lives hang in the balance on a daily basis.  I mean how does one differentiate between someone who is mentally ill, and someone on bath salts, or PCP.  The latter pose a serious threat to the lives of those in the vicinity.  Tasers are a reasonable weapon of use in these situations.  The mentally ill may deserve special treatment, but our law enforcement officers shouldn't have to risk their lives to protect the mentally ill.  If laws are broken and commands are not followed, a quick assesment must be made, and latitude should be given to law enforcement IMO.  I agree that you shouldn't call 911 in certain situations that can be handled at home.  I also think public safety should be considered if your insane relative has left the house in a rage.  Law Enforcement is not/and should not be required to be perfect in assessing these scenarios.  Mistakes happen in other dangerous professions and people die.  It's called unintended consequences.  

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Gromdor
3 minutes ago, Faustus said:

I think most cops are trained to know and recognize the difference.  Some aren't, or are new to the force, and I agree that could result in bad shoots.  Cops have a tough job, as their lives hang in the balance on a daily basis.  I mean how does one differentiate between someone who is mentally ill, and someone on bath salts, or PCP.  The latter pose a serious threat to the lives of those in the vicinity.  Tasers are a reasonable weapon of use in these situations.  The mentally ill may deserve special treatment, but our law enforcement officers shouldn't have to risk their lives to protect the mentally ill.  If laws are broken and commands are not followed, a quick assesment must be made, and latitude should be given to law enforcement IMO.  I agree that you shouldn't call 911 in certain situations that can be handled at home.  I also think public safety should be considered if your insane relative has left the house in a rage.  Law Enforcement is not/and should not be required to be perfect in assessing these scenarios.  Mistakes happen in other dangerous professions and people die.  It's called unintended consequences.  

Cops these days aren't required to risk their lives for anyone, they are trained to use lethal force when they feel threatened, and they feel threatened quite often by the people I mentioned before.  It's the primary reason why people are hesitant to call the cops.

Maybe if one of those three things change, people would trust them more- especially if one of their insane relatives leaves the house in a rage.  But right now, it seems like calling the cops is a gamble on that relatives life.  And knowing people, they care more about their relative than the public at large.

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Setton
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Well the odds are very small that simply calling the police will result in death for anyone. 

Among those situations where someone dies, 9.8 out of 10 of those at least are justified.  

2 in every 100 deaths are unjustified? If that's a real statistic and not just you trying to make a point, that's a pretty awful track record. 

Quote

I personally don’t know anyone who was killed or even shot by police. 

The very fact that you make this statement shows just how bad your police situation is. 

It would never even occur to most people in the rest of the developed world that they might know anyone who was shot by police. 

Edited by Setton
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Farmer77
2 hours ago, Setton said:

2 in every 100 deaths are unjustified? If that's a real statistic and not just you trying to make a point, that's a pretty awful track record. 

The very fact that you make this statement shows just how bad your police situation is. 

It would never even occur to most people in the rest of the developed world that they might know anyone who was shot by police. 

The problem IMO is with the definition of justified. The law enforcement unions have created an environment where just feeling fear is justification for police to kill. 

Now I do have to back up a little bit and say the usual good stuff about cops. Im definitely not bashing all law enforcement, they are however human and as such they are susceptible to all the same human conditions as the rest of us. I feel it is a police culture problem that killing has become as accepted as it is much more than it is a "bad cop" problem. 

 

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Myles
On 6/2/2018 at 8:53 AM, Ellapennella said:

A church in Oakland, California, is urging its members never to call the police again.

Church leader Nichola Torbett said the First Congregational Church of Oakland, which is part of the United Church of Christ denomination, will never call the cops again in nearly every circumstance, and dozens of members of the congregation agreed to do the same.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/05/31/oakland-california-church-urges-congregation-never-call-police

This is dangerous .Looks like another identity politics tactic  against law enforcement.

 

The church leader is an idiot.  

 

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freetoroam
Posted (edited)
On 02/06/2018 at 1:53 PM, Ellapennella said:

No news on what the church are going to do to tackle crime, anything?  Or just keep spreading the word and leave the rest in gods hands.

Wonder how many of the church goers and local criminals are getting geared up to rob someone,  maybe even getting their guns out and no one is going to call the police on them. 

Right result for the criminals.

This is not the sort of spreading of words which help matters.

Edited by freetoroam
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preacherman76
19 hours ago, Aquila King said:

Citing the example in my first link, if you consider loud music playing in your garage a crime punishable by death, then perhaps you might have a point.

Sigh... I'm being sarcastic here, but honestly it's hard to stomach even that level of lightheartedness of the situation. Yet at the same time I'm so exhausted from seeing these senseless killings happen so regularly that I'm emotionally drained from any real outrage... I'm mainly, just, sad...

If you aren't seeing these people being gunned down in cold blood on a regular basis and having no justice served for them, then you aren't paying attention.

Oh of course, its horrible. Then again the entire situation is horrible. In these same neighborhoods a black guy is FAR more likely to be killed by another black guy then a cop. Murder is normal. Could you imagine even trying to be a police officer in such a place? I'd probably be thinking my number could be called any second, and would probably act accordingly.

Though I could never be a cop.

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