ian hacktorp Posted June 19, 2018 #301 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Just now, bison said: Given laws can be interpreted and acted upon in various ways. Mr. Trump's interpretation, and the actions flowing from that interpretation is a radical, and cruel departure from the policies of even his conservative predecessors. A long and garbled way of saying Trump decided it is time to enforce the law, Previous administrations' refusal to do so has resulted in the rise of an entire industry of human trafficking...including children. Apparently you are okay with that. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted June 19, 2018 #302 Share Posted June 19, 2018 because not be ok with it, means agree with trump, and libs can't do that no matter what, they are sooner to see country fail, than prosper if trumps is in charge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAyMO Posted June 19, 2018 #303 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 minute ago, hacktorp said: entire industry of human trafficking...including children. so to stop trafficking you have to remove children from their parents? Surely even the US can use more sophisticated methods of identifying and dealing with traffickers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggs Posted June 19, 2018 #304 Share Posted June 19, 2018 14 minutes ago, Big Jim said: In several of the quotes against the practice of dividing adults and juveniles into two groups words like "torn from" or "forcibly separated" are unnecessarily inflammatory and seem intended to convey an image of screaming children being dragged away from loving and concerned parents. This is what people do when the dry facts don't support their political position. I've not been there, but I doubt that the process of handling large crowds is done in such a brutal and physical way. "I was talking to one mother, and she said, "Don't take my child away," and the child started screaming and vomiting and crying hysterically, and she asked the officers, "Can I at least have five minutes to console her?" They said no," Ms Chandler told the magazine. Source: BBC 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bison Posted June 19, 2018 #305 Share Posted June 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, Big Jim said: In several of the quotes against the practice of dividing adults and juveniles into two groups words like "torn from" or "forcibly separated" are unnecessarily inflammatory and seem intended to convey an image of screaming children being dragged away from loving and concerned parents. This is what people do when the dry facts don't support their political position. I've not been there, but I doubt that the process of handling large crowds is done in such a brutal and physical way. Discussions lose whatever light they might have shined on a situation when one side or the other purposely tries to distort the truth. Similarly, the claim that this will irreparably harm the children for life is needlessly melodramatic. The trauma, if any, is hardly any worse than a first grader crying on the bus on the first day of school or kids getting homesick at summer camp. I know someone will jump on this and say it's not summer camp, but the separation is no worse and the duration no longer. The videos I've seen show kids playing soccer and eating in cafeterias, so it's not that much different. There is an audio tape of the children screaming for their parents. They were taken abruptly from their parents, reportedly without explanation and without being allowed so much as a 'good bye'. Under these circumstances, the idiom 'torn from their parents' does not seem out of order. The statement about lasting trauma caused to the children was not a piece of melodrama, but a sober warning from a physician, speaking for the American Association of Pediatrics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted June 19, 2018 #306 Share Posted June 19, 2018 again, all of this would be avoided if proper procedures are followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian hacktorp Posted June 19, 2018 #307 Share Posted June 19, 2018 10 minutes ago, RAyMO said: Surely even the US can use more sophisticated methods of identifying and dealing with traffickers. Kids trafficked into the country have their fate determined within the first 48 hours after they arrive. Holding them until their circumstances are known is the only safe way. I notice that you offer no "sophisticated" alternative...only complaints. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAyMO Posted June 19, 2018 #308 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 minute ago, hacktorp said: Holding them until their circumstances are known is the only safe way. But do you need to hold them separately from their parents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian hacktorp Posted June 19, 2018 #309 Share Posted June 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, bison said: There is an audio tape of the children screaming for their parents. Parents who may well be 3,000 miles away in Central America... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggs Posted June 19, 2018 #310 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Just now, hacktorp said: Parents who may well be 3,000 miles away in Central America... ... after being deported by the Trump administration. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian hacktorp Posted June 19, 2018 #311 Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, RAyMO said: But do you need to hold them separately from their parents Yes, if the adults who brought them are suspected of committing a crime. If you are arrested for ANYTHING in this country, you are separated from your family. It's always been that way. Edited June 19, 2018 by hacktorp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAyMO Posted June 19, 2018 #312 Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) If a group consisting of alleged parents and children or parent and child arrive at the border - surely the authorities could implement a simple screening to determine whether or not the alleged relationship is true. Edited June 19, 2018 by RAyMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian hacktorp Posted June 19, 2018 #313 Share Posted June 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Tiggs said: ... after being deported by the Trump administration. ...or the Obama administration ...or the Bush administration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian hacktorp Posted June 19, 2018 #314 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 minute ago, RAyMO said: If a group consistent of alleged parents and children or parent and child arrive at the border - surely the authorities could implement a simple screening to determine whether or not the alleged relationship is true. Can you describe how your screening system works? And what do you plan to do with the hundreds and thousands of children for whom the screening results are problematic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted June 19, 2018 #315 Share Posted June 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, RAyMO said: If a group consisting of alleged parents and children or parent and child arrive at the border - surely the authorities could implement a simple screening to determine whether or not the alleged relationship is true. Like a DNA test? I can hear the uproar over violating their rights and keeping their DNA in a data base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggs Posted June 19, 2018 #316 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Just now, hacktorp said: ...or the Obama administration ...or the Bush administration Evidence, please, that previous administrations held onto the children while deporting their parents after a border crossing attempt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAyMO Posted June 19, 2018 #317 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Michelle said: Like a DNA test? I can hear the uproar over violating their rights and keeping their DNA in a data base. Well don't keep the results in database - and suffer the uproar - many seem happy to suffer the uproar of separating kids from parents. which do you prefer - separating kids from parents and suffering the uproar - (I see even Melania, and Mrs Bush are not to happy about it ) or carrying out DNA tests and letting kids stay with their parents and suffering the uproar. Although all this is in response to the arguments that the measures are necessary to stop child trafficking, was that one of the original reasons given for the introduction of the policy by the administration? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian hacktorp Posted June 19, 2018 #318 Share Posted June 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, Tiggs said: Evidence, please, that previous administrations held onto the children while deporting their parents after a border crossing attempt. Can you show evidence that ANY of those adults are actually the parents of those children? No, you can't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggs Posted June 19, 2018 #319 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 minute ago, hacktorp said: Can you show evidence that ANY of those adults are actually the parents of those children? No, you can't. You'd think all the kids screaming for their mother while being seperated from them might give it away. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian hacktorp Posted June 19, 2018 #320 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Tiggs said: You'd think all the kids screaming for their mother while being seperated from them might give it away. YOU would certainly think that. But it ain't proof. And, in the current climate, it is more likely propaganda. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggs Posted June 19, 2018 #321 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 minute ago, hacktorp said: YOU would certainly think that. But it ain't proof. And, in the current climate, it is more likely propaganda. And they prove it after separating the child... how, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian hacktorp Posted June 19, 2018 #322 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Tiggs said: And they prove it after separating the child... how, exactly? Excellent point...it may be extremely difficult. Especially if the adult is here illegally. How do YOU suggest these kids be protected from trafficking? Or are you just shutting your eyes to the problem? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpandMyMind Posted June 19, 2018 #323 Share Posted June 19, 2018 So Trump is now saying that immigrants will 'infest' the USA. A man who is himself a second generation immigrant. How is it possible to have such little self-awareness? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggs Posted June 19, 2018 #324 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 hour ago, hacktorp said: Excellent point...it may be extremely difficult. Especially if the adult is here illegally. How do YOU suggest these kids be protected from trafficking? Or are you just shutting your eyes to the problem? We should shoot all the kids. It's the only way to ensure they'll never, ever be trafficked. And if you're against that, then you clearly support child trafficking. Truth is -- separating children from their family, and putting them in wire cages with armed guards has nothing to do with the prevention of child trafficking -- and everything to do with using them as a deterrent and political bargaining chip. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian hacktorp Posted June 19, 2018 #325 Share Posted June 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, Tiggs said: We should shoot all the kids. It's the only way to ensure they'll never, ever be trafficked. Damn Tiggs...I do believe you've just thrown in the towel. Bravo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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