Helen of Troy?

[Orphalesion]

1 hour ago, Windowpane said:

From something I read years ago, and have now forgotten: wasn't Helen supposed to be Aphrodite's daimon, or some such ... ?

This appears to be a literary discussion of Helen, and it does make some mentions of the concept of a daimon ...  

But I'm no expert in Greek civilisation and culture ... Perhaps someone else might know more?

I haven't heard that variation, but since it was such a popular story and copyright wasn't a thing yet, there were a lot of variations on the Troy story. Most famous perhaps the Roman retcon that Aeneas escaped and fled to Italy.
One variation I did hear was that the "Helen" that went to Troy was just an illusion given life by Aprhodite who instead hid the real Helen in Egypt for the duration of the war, afterwards Menelaus had his own little Odyssey and ended up in Egypt, where the two lovers were reunited.

Oh, and I've also read that even before associated with the Troyan cycle, Helen was the centre of a minor, local ancestor cult somewhere in Greece. And since daimon was any sort of minor spirit....

Edited June 21, 2018 by Orphalesion

[jmccr8]

2 hours ago, Windowpane said:

Ah!

Alien of Troy !!! 

hi windopane,

wouldn't it be halain of troy?

jmccr8

[Piney]

4 hours ago, danydandan said:

You take that back right now..... anything with Liam Neeson in it is at least watchable.

Not that stinker.......

[jaylemurph]

2 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

I haven't heard that variation, but since it was such a popular story and copyright wasn't a thing yet, there were a lot of variations on the Troy story. Most famous perhaps the Roman retcon that Aeneas escaped and fled to Italy.
One variation I did hear was that the "Helen" that went to Troy was just an illusion given life by Aprhodite who instead hid the real Helen in Egypt for the duration of the war, afterwards Menelaus had his own little Odyssey and ended up in Egypt, where the two lovers were reunited.

Oh, and I've also read that even before associated with the Troyan cycle, Helen was the centre of a minor, local ancestor cult somewhere in Greece. And since daimon was any sort of minor spirit....

That version was created out of whole cloth by Euripides for his tragedy, Helen.

--Jaylemurph

[kmt_sesh]

4 hours ago, Piney said:

Not that stinker.......

I think you need to watch it again. And after it's done, watch it again. And then two or three more times.

You'll like it eventually.

[Piney]

5 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

I think you need to watch it again. And after it's done, watch it again. And then two or three more times.

You'll like it eventually.

You should be glad I'm not epileptic. 

[Orphalesion]

On 6/22/2018 at 1:17 AM, jaylemurph said:

That version was created out of whole cloth by Euripides for his tragedy, Helen.

--Jaylemurph

I couldn't remember what playwright it was by, thanks.

[DingoLingo]

On 6/21/2018 at 5:10 AM, Orphalesion said:

 

 

Have you guys seen those (really, really, really) awful Italian Hercules movies from the 80s starring Lou Ferrigno? I saw the German dub as a kid on network TV and then saw the English one some years ago.

They are pretty bad all around (plot, acting, writing, logic, costumes, special effects) but the English dub makes it even more glorious because it is completely incoherent. I swear it must have been translated by somebody who spoke neither English nor Italian using a bilingual dictionary. One thing I still remember was that the Fates were mistranslated as "Little People"(Fairies) and the various goddesses had hair that was several times the size of their own heads.

I mean still better than the Clash of Titans remake, but yeah...

try this one *grins* 

aussie comedy gold

 

[atalante]

Homer skirted two crucial themes about what "started" the Trojan War: a) Cyprus was the dominant supplier of copper for Bronze Age Mediterranean societies; and b ) Hittites seized Cyprus, to supply the Hittite Empire with enough copper to let the Hittite empire continue expanding. 


This is explained in a paper by Gerard Gertoux, titled The Trojan War; Chronological, Historical and Archaeological Evidence
www.academia.edu/4295118/The_Trojan_War_Chronological_Historical_and_Archaeological_Evidence

Abstract. The Trojan War is the foundation of Greek history. If Greek historians had little doubt of its existence they remained extremely skeptical regarding its mythological origin. Archaeology has confirmed one essential point: there was indeed a general conflagration in the Greek world around 1200 BCE, the assumed period of that war, which caused the disappearance of two powerful empires: Mycenaean on one hand and Hittite with its vassals on the other hand. The inscriptions of Ramses III's year 8 describe actually a general invasion of the Mediterranean by the "Sea Peoples", but without giving any reason. A precise chronological reconstruction, based on few absolute dates shows that the annexation of the kingdom Alasiya (Cyprus), closely linked to the Mediterranean world, by Hittite king Tudhaliya IV (1241-1209), played a role of detonator in the confrontation between a Greek heterogeneous confederation, consisting of pirates and privateers on one side, and a set of vassal Hittite kingdoms, as Troy and Ugarit, on the other. This struggle to control a vital sea path from Crete to Egypt, via Cyprus, ended in complete mutual destruction in 1185 BCE, the climax of the Trojan War, which had begun ten years earlier. Surprisingly, this conclusion was already that of Eratosthenes (276-193)....endquote


quote from page 27 of the above paper:
The conquest of Cyprus by the Hittite king Tudhaliya IV [1241-1209] would cause a chain reaction ultimately leading to the conflagration called "Attack of the Sea Peoples", of which the Trojan War is the most famous episode. Indeed Cyprus became the heart of global commerce through its copper used to make bronze (the end of Cyprus marks the end of the Bronze Age) that was used to make utensils for palaces and weapons for soldiers. So copper acquired an economic role of first magnitude. 
endquote

A Hittite war with Assyria started ca 1232 BC, while the Assyrians were busy in the east, conquering the Kassite Babylonian king Kastiliasu (reigned 1233-1225 BC). (reference, page 26 of the paper) 

After ca 1225 BC, the Assyrians turned their attention to conquering their western flanks. The Hittites responded by seizing nearly all the copper output from Cyprus, to use in war against Assyria. This deprived the Aegean region (including Mycenaean empire) of copper that had previously been obtained from Cyprus.

 

Edited July 25, 2018 by atalante

[skliss]

On 6/20/2018 at 7:03 PM, Piney said:

I have them on one of those $3.00 fantasy DVD sets from the Walmart bin.    Bad movies rule!

Have you ever seen Mystery Science Theater 3000? They make the most out of truly bad movies!

[Piney]

2 minutes ago, skliss said:

Have you ever seen Mystery Science Theater 3000? They make the most out of truly bad movies!

Out of likes 

It is one of my favorite shows. 

[skliss]

11 minutes ago, Piney said:

Out of likes 

It is one of my favorite shows. 

Hubby and I bonded over it when we first started dating. He couldn't get it where he was living so I would video tape (yes VCR) shows and we'd watch together. My boys love it, we watch their Thanksgiving marathon every year. " Are you boys playing with an Interocetor up there?!" 

[Piney]

2 minutes ago, skliss said:

Hubby and I bonded over it when we first started dating. He couldn't get it where he was living so I would video tape (yes VCR) shows and we'd watch together. My boys love it, we watch their Thanksgiving marathon every year. " Are you boys playing with an Interocetor up there?!" 

No, Just Legos.    My older son use to watch it with me. I haven't turned the grandchildren on to them yet. They're thing is Robot Chicken  Star Wars

[jaylemurph]

5 hours ago, atalante said:

Homer skirted two crucial themes about what "started" the Trojan War: a) Cyprus was the dominant supplier of copper for Bronze Age Mediterranean societies; and b ) Hittites seized Cyprus, to supply the Hittite Empire with enough copper to let the Hittite empire continue expanding.

Hunh. And here I was thinking Homer said the war was started because Zeus thought there were too many humans around and needed to thin the heard.

But it may not be prudent to ascribe real-world thoughts and actions to fictional people. Or fictional accounts of semi-mythical conflicts.

--Jaylemurph