Where does this end, logically?

[bee]

3 minutes ago, Setton said:

It's literally on the first page of this thread. 

I am a moderate. That's why I don't sycophantically fawn over Trump's every word. Equally, it's why I argue he should learn to show the dignity his office is meant to hold rather than advocating his outright removal. 

Being moderate does not mean ignoring problems with either side. For me it means acknowledging that the whole idea of sides is ludicrous. 

 

Oh you mean the meme with some Trump remarks that are without context....... and yes Trump can make some iffy
throw away remarks like that...but seriously...?.... that's nothing compared to the actual sedition that many Trump
detractors are advocating...

like, for example, that piece of work ex CIA John O Brennan on his Twitter account... 

You don't come over as a moderate to me.... and you are evidently firmly on one side... 

 

[bee]

38 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

Well, it would have to be the rise of a tyrant or dictator, since no democratically elected (sorry, "democratically" "elected") (and certainly no Democratic) leader could ever conceivably attain such a position, could they, since the very nature of a "democratic" voting system is that one half of the population absolutely loathes the one that's put forward by the Other Lot. Really a "democracy" seems designed to make division and hatred a basic part of the organisation of society. 

Perhaps a king would be the best option.

 

or praps the Political Globalists have plans for an Artificial Intelligence Robot to rule us..... 

And they could call it the People'a Pal or something nice like that... 

edit - or  The People's Pal.... if so desired.... 

 

Edited June 26, 2018 by bee

[preacherman76]

1 hour ago, Setton said:

Let's see, 2016 election, one side encourages supporters to physically assault the opposition, the other tells supporters not to boo - vote. 

Which is more representative of a democratic leader and which encourages disrespect of the political system? 

What are you talking about? George Soros was paying people to violently assault people outside Trump rallies. Big groups of people.

That opossed to seeing Trump talk about taking people out of his rallies that were disrupting it. 

I ask ya, which is worse? There have been people on the left that were extremely violent throughout this entire process. 

Edited June 26, 2018 by preacherman76

[Setton]

2 hours ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

The one that didn't try to appropriate all the votes their rival for the candidacy got, and order the supporters of that rival to support them, otherwise they'd be damned for all eternity once that candidate came to power?

Yeah she was as bad for other reasons. But she didn't call for violence from her supporters, which was the topic. 

2 hours ago, bee said:

Oh you mean the meme with some Trump remarks that are without context....... and yes Trump can make some iffy
 

Would you like to add context? See if you can try to justify these comments? 

Quote

throw away remarks like that...but seriously...?.... that's nothing compared to the actual sedition that many Trump
detractors are advocating...

like, for example, that piece of work ex CIA John O Brennan on his Twitter account... 

Are they running as candidates for the highest elected office in the country? If people are going to insist he is 'given the respect his office is due' he should behave with the dignity it demands. 

Quote

You don't come over as a moderate to me.... and you are evidently firmly on one side... 

In this particular case, yes I am firmly against Trump. 

What makes me a moderate is that I am against him because of his actions not just because he is a Republican. 

And whether some random person on the internet, who is clearly on Trump's side regardless of what he does, sees me as a moderate or not is of precisely zero importance. 

Quote

 

2 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

What are you talking about? George Soros was paying people to violently assault people outside Trump rallies. Big groups of people.

That opossed to seeing Trump talk about taking people out of his rallies that were disrupting it. 

I ask ya, which is worse? There have been people on the left that were extremely violent throughout this entire process. 

George Soros was not running for President of the United States. Those protestors were not running for President of the United States. 

Again, if you are going to run for and hold an office that commands that respect, you should behave in a manner worthy of it. 

Only one person in that room was a candidate to be president and his behaviour was unworthy of that position. No other candidate encouraged violence against protestors, regardless of provocation. 

[+and-then]

14 hours ago, Likely Guy said:

Whoa AT.

Ella said: "I'm angry... I'm tired of these people."

I said: "You're part of the problem then."... as in if you don't or can't listen to an opposing viewpoint, "you're part of the problem".

Don't step into a conversation if you don't know the context. Maybe I should have been clearer.

As far as the rest of what you wrote. Who or what is the 'quiet dog' and who is 'they'? To reply I need to know your context.

I understood exactly what you were saying.  You were berating her for being negative toward the Left/media in this nation.  My point is that prior to this literal hysteria of hatred towards the winner of the last election, we'd never seen this kind of behavior, at this continuing level, ever before.  This cannot reasonably be disputed, Lightly.  It IS what it IS and it is easily demonstrable if one cares to look at media stats for negative coverage and the language that has been used against this man, even before he was elected.  We are 18 months into his administration and there hasn't been a single day - not one - where he has received anything but majority negative coverage.  The quiet dog is the group who elected Trump after being regularly ignored and told how they would live whether they liked it or not for 8 years.  Again, educate yourself a bit.  Obama never passed a budget.  Obama never even tried to meet Republican representatives in the middle - his famous first words on the topic were - I WON.  He proceeded to behave as though he'd "won" a royal throne.  His sycophants got bit in the ass as soon as the people of this country realized he was going to be replaced with someone who was potentially WORSE, even, than he'd been.  

[+and-then]

13 hours ago, Michelle said:

I don't respect anyone who may possibly have killed an innocent animal to make a point.

Considering my entire history on this site, I think I could get a wee bit of understanding for the context of what I wrote.  I obviously am not in favor of animal slaughter or sacrifice by some hateful individual.  My point was that most who spew their venom at this man do so from a position of protection.  They take no risks.  I can assure you that had the critter been MINE and I caught them in the act, they'd have bitten a biscuit RIGHT THEN.  

[bee]

5 hours ago, Setton said:

Yeah she was as bad for other reasons. But she didn't call for violence from her supporters, which was the topic. 

she didn't lift a finger or make any attempt what so ever to quell the violence from her supporters when they kicked off
after she lost - it probably gave her satisfaction (speculation but I bet it did)
and when she said half of Trump supporters belong in a basket of deplorables she was inviting disrespect and disrespect can lead to violence...
like from that Antifa mob...

  

Quote

Would you like to add context? See if you can try to justify these comments? 

no I wouldn't - they are obviously very short clips of responses that were made during '''things''' that were going on -

 

Quote

Are they running as candidates for the highest elected office in the country? If people are going to insist he is 'given the respect his office is due' he should behave with the dignity it demands. 

people in glass houses etc etc - many people enjoy Trump's honest responses - they can identify with them rather than 
the scripted, safe, predictable, politically correct flannel they usually get... they don't find his behavior undignified but the
MSM mostly tries to portray him as not deserving as respect... thankfully many more people now have minds of their own
to make judgements of their own... 
 

Quote

In this particular case, yes I am firmly against Trump. 

What makes me a moderate is that I am against him because of his actions not just because he is a Republican. 

And whether some random person on the internet, who is clearly on Trump's side regardless of what he does, sees me as a moderate or not is of precisely zero importance. 

I was against the two times he allowed the bombing of Syria and called Assad, Animal Assad and I said so very clearly here
on this forum  - but by and large I think he is less hawkish than another President might be... I believe he does want to contribute to World Peace -
and I think he is less of a danger to world peace than Hillary Clinton is....  I think I am more of a moderate than you, in fact (na na na na naaaa) 

I am a floating voter and flexible with my politics - during the election campaign I took the pragmatic view that Trump was the better candidate
because he was a better bet for world peace (Clinton was openly saying she would create a no fly zone in Syria which wouldhave racheted
up that conflict no end.... ) I could not and doubt I ever will forgive Clinton and Obama for what they did to Libya,,, (if they owned up and
apologised profusely to Libya citizens who's lives they ruined and compensated them.... I might think about forgiving them....)
 
I also liked that Trump wasn't part of the political elite and was a bit of a maverick... and as time went on I liked him
more and more ---- I feel kind of protective towards him because I don't think he deserves to be demonized and I think he is a good man who
really is trying to not just make America great again.... but actually SAVE America from the Political Globalists who want to merge the US,
Canada and Mexico in a move towards a One World Government - like the EU is a move towards a One World Government -    

Yes I'm definitely more of a moderate than you..... .... and more concerned with World Peace than you....

 

 

Edited June 26, 2018 by bee

[skliss]

18 hours ago, baronesslucy said:

This is a very slippery slope because one day you might be the person kicked out of restaurant or asked to leave a movie theater because someone doesn't like the country club you attend or they are jealous because they couldn't get in, or they saw you come into the movie theater in a vehicle whose company they despise.  Or some other stupid reason or maybe they just don't like you.  

"First they came for the Socialists -

and I did not speak out because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists -

and I did not speak out because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews -

and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak out."

     - Pastor Martin Niemoller, Luthern Minister, imprisoned Dachau concentration camp 1941 to 1945

[RavenHawk]

 

3 minutes ago, skliss said:

"First they came for the Socialists -

and I did not speak out because I was not a Socialist.

But then it is the Socialists that are doing the "coming".

[bee]

 

First they came for Trump

and I did not speak out because I didn't like him -

Then they came for the Trump voters

and I didn't speak out because I didn't vote for him -

Then they came for the 'moderate' Democrats

and I didn't speak out because I couldn't be arsed -

Then they came for anyone who supported a sovereign nation and free speech 

and I didn't speak out because things were getting a bit dodgey and I thought it was better to keep my head down-

then they came for me

And there was no one left to speak out-----------  

 

me.... from the Midlands, England, UK, 2018

 

this is not intended to be disrespectful to 

Pastor Martin Niemoller, Luthern Minister, imprisoned Dachau concentration camp 1941 to 1945

I have just adapted it to what's going on....

 

 

[RavenHawk]

3 minutes ago, bee said:

I have just adapted it to what's going on....

And when the Progressives have gotten rid of all of us, they will come for themselves as all forms of Socialism feed upon itself until all is gone.  That is the only logical end.

[bee]

26 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

And when the Progressives have gotten rid of all of us, they will come for themselves as all forms of Socialism feed upon itself until all is gone.  That is the only logical end.

 

 

maybe  

I have a liking for the comedian and political commentator Jimmy Dore  and he identifies as a Progressive -

So perhaps you are right and then they will come for the Progressives who are honest and genuinely care -

And just the crazy nutty ones will be left who are convinced of their superiority and have NO MERCY....
and no empathy or true respect for anyone.....

not a happy ending

but that doesn't have to be the ending -

I still keep the faith but we are in stormy waters, on the edge of a precipice, at the crossroads etc etc

(Or was it ever thus... ?)

 

 

Edited June 26, 2018 by bee
small correction

[skliss]

1 minute ago, bee said:

but that doesn't have to be the ending -

You're right....someone has to speak out....imo these behaviours need to be denounced by the moderate democrats. They need to show they are no longer willing to be represented by people who condone the actions that are going on in their name. 

[RavenHawk]

4 minutes ago, skliss said:

You're right....someone has to speak out....imo these behaviours need to be denounced by the moderate democrats. They need to show they are no longer willing to be represented by people who condone the actions that are going on in their name. 

I will keep vigilance waiting but I won’t hold my breath.  The Moderates are the first ones they came for.

[Gromdor]

4 minutes ago, skliss said:

You're right....someone has to speak out....imo these behaviours need to be denounced by the moderate democrats. They need to show they are no longer willing to be represented by people who condone the actions that are going on in their name. 

You're half right.  This behavior needs to be denounced by both parties.  Unfortunately, it seems that at this point both parties are actively embracing people who act in this fashion.

[Setton]

11 minutes ago, skliss said:

You're right....someone has to speak out....imo these behaviours need to be denounced by the moderate democrats. They need to show they are no longer willing to be represented by people who condone the actions that are going on in their name. 

Pot meet kettle. 

But yes. 

[bee]

 

group hug........?

 

[RavenHawk]

10 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

You're half right.  This behavior needs to be denounced by both parties.  Unfortunately, it seems that at this point both parties are actively embracing people who act in this fashion.

Conservatives do denounce this behavior but when we do, we are called racists and Nazis.  Conservatives do not embrace Progressives.

[bee]

3 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Conservatives do denounce this behavior but when we do, we are called racists and Nazis.  Conservatives do not embrace Progressives.

 

 

no group hug then........ 
 

 

Edited June 26, 2018 by bee
to add bolding

[skliss]

12 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

You're half right.  This behavior needs to be denounced by both parties.  Unfortunately, it seems that at this point both parties are actively embracing people who act in this fashion.

I believe it has been denounced on one side...now the other needs to step up. I hear my moderate dem cousins complain about what their beloved party has become, to each other...They are hoping for some prominent dem to speak out with a message they can get behind...one that shows their party (not progressive) roots. Unfortunately, no one has been brave enough to buck the far leftist trend.

[Gromdor]

Just now, skliss said:

I believe it has been denounced on one side...now the other needs to step up. I hear my moderate dem cousins complain about what their beloved party has become, to each other...They are hoping for some prominent dem to speak out with a message they can get behind...one that shows their party (not progressive) roots. Unfortunately, no one has been brave enough to buck the far leftist trend.

Nah, that's incorrect.  Both sides regularly denounce the other side but neither side fully denounces themselves.  (I'll give Flake, McCain, Bush, etc. points for trying but they seem to have been ejected from their old team for doing so.)

[CrimsonKing]

Just now, Gromdor said:

Nah, that's incorrect.  Both sides regularly denounce the other side but neither side fully denounces themselves.  (I'll give Flake, McCain, Bush, etc. points for trying but they seem to have been ejected from their old team for doing so.)

McCain and Bush have shown their hand as 2 of the biggest hypocrits and flip floppers in recent history...

 

[Gromdor]

1 minute ago, CrimsonKing said:

McCain and Bush have shown their hand as 2 of the biggest hypocrits and flip floppers in recent history...

 

Yeah, they suck.  We should ostracize them and refuse them service.........  <sarcasm again>

[CrimsonKing]

Just now, Gromdor said:

Yeah, they suck.  We should ostracize them and refuse them service.........  <sarcasm again>

My point being,they havn't been "ostracized" by their parties for being decent people bent on uniting people...they have been ostracized for being loudly and blatantly two faced 

[RavenHawk]

4 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

McCain and Bush have shown their hand as 2 of the biggest hypocrits and flip floppers in recent history...

I agree.  I used to like them a lot but what Trump sells them short on is that if they hadn’t invaded Iraq, then Trump would be dealing with a nuclear standoff between Iraq and Iran, with France and the EU backing Iraq and Russia/Syria backing Iran.  Kim would have been small potatoes.