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and then

Another shooting by police

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Kismit
3 minutes ago, aztek said:

it is not the weapon they do not respect, they do not respect  civilians. everyone is a criminal, just not everyone got caught yet

Then there is an inherent problem with in the police. 

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Agent0range

When I was in Iraq, if I saw a man fleeing with what I was 100% sure to be an AK-47, I'd be in Leavenworth.

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Gromdor
7 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

High powered pepperball rifles are another good option. Between the thump of the ball and the sting of pepper in the lungs the perp wouldn't get too far. 

Is that weapon effective while shooting people in the back though?

 

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skliss
12 hours ago, aztek said:

it is not the weapon they do not respect, they do not respect  civilians. everyone is a criminal, just not everyone got caught yet

And that's just your opinion. Most cops do a tough job that the people who complain about them don't have what it takes to do. And most cops do it for the communities they work in despite the way they are treated in them. They are at risk every day for their lives while protecting people who not only don't give a $hit about them but are now actively gunning for them. One thing that keeps them alive is assuming when they walk up to a car on a traffic stop is that the person behind the wheel could be a criminal or just a cop hater. Considering the fact that cops are being shot while they sit peacefully in their cars these days I can't blame them.  Yet if something happens who do they call...yeah, the police....I can imagine the screaming if they quit responding.  

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Farmer77
13 minutes ago, skliss said:

And that's just your opinion.

Thats not really just opinion. Ive had that exact sentiment relayed to me by multiple LEO's 

14 minutes ago, skliss said:

They are at risk every day for their lives while protecting people who not only don't give a $hit about them but are now actively gunning for them.

The reality is there are many professions more dangerous than police officer Being a police officer is dangerous. These jobs are more dangerous.

Fatal injuries cops everyone else
 

16 minutes ago, skliss said:

One thing that keeps them alive is assuming when they walk up to a car on a traffic stop is that the person behind the wheel could be a criminal or just a cop hater.

I find this mindset to be insanely unamerican. Basically we've gotten to the point where we believe its OK for the police to point a gun at us, despite the circumstance, just so they can make themselves feel better. That's insane 

17 minutes ago, skliss said:

Yet if something happens who do they call...yeah, the police....I can imagine the screaming if they quit responding.  

Yep thats the job they get paid to do . They aren't victims, they weren't born in blue , they can find other career choices. 

This book has some good background on the politics and psychology of the militarization of our police forces.   Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America’s Police Forces

This isn't about bashing cops, its about holding armed government officials to a high standard. 

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openozy

Thank God I live in Australia.

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aztek
Just now, skliss said:

And that's just your opinion. Most cops do a tough job that the people who complain about them don't have what it takes to do. And most cops do it for the communities they work in despite the way they are treated in them. They are at risk every day for their lives while protecting people who not only don't give a $hit about them but are now actively gunning for them. One thing that keeps them alive is assuming when they walk up to a car on a traffic stop is that the person behind the wheel could be a criminal or just a cop hater. Considering the fact that cops are being shot while they sit peacefully in their cars these days I can't blame them.  Yet if something happens who do they call...yeah, the police....I can imagine the screaming if they quit responding.  

cool story.

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seanjo
17 hours ago, Kismit said:

I  don't understand why tazers are not employed in a run away situation. 

And I never understood how shooting at a member of any community helps. The logic behind it, in my eyes, is that you just created more animosity towards your own community.

Shoot one person and raise an army against yourself. It seems foolish. 

Tazers have a very short range. Not saying Cops should just shoot, but in a place like the US where guns are everywhere and in every situation, then it's pretty much inevitable. The "Ghetto Black Culture" victim mentality needs to be changed. The US has just had 8 years of a Black President, there is nothing holding a young Black person back if they apply themselves.

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OverSword
17 hours ago, Kismit said:

I  don't understand why tazers are not employed in a run away situation. 

And I never understood how shooting at a member of any community helps. The logic behind it, in my eyes, is that you just created more animosity towards your own community.

Shoot one person and raise an army against yourself. It seems foolish. 

The cop was on the drivers side of the vehicle, the suspect jumped out of the other side of the car and sprinted away, he was about 25 or 35 feet away when he was shot, well out of tazer range.  Also police probably do not approach a vehicle that is involved in a shooting with their tazer's drawn for obvious reasons.

As far as how shooting a member of a community helps, if this is a person that is driving around in cars shooting at people the answer is obvious.

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and then
18 hours ago, Kismit said:

I  don't understand why tazers are not employed in a run away situation. 

And I never understood how shooting at a member of any community helps. The logic behind it, in my eyes, is that you just created more animosity towards your own community.

Shoot one person and raise an army against yourself. It seems foolish. 

My understanding of the law in most states here is that if an officer is responding to the scene of a violent crime where deadly force has been used, there is an expectation that the suspect might use it again on other innocents, therefore it is justifiable, in defense of the public, to use deadly force against a suspect rather than allow them to flee.  The shooter in that drive-by was in the car with this kid.  The kid had an empty magazine IN HIS POCKETS.  To look at this another way, had the cop just allowed them to run and one of them had killed someone else while running away, would not the cop be to blame?  What if this happened and the innocent who got killed was a friend or family member of yours?  The question seems to be reduced to either acknowledging that criminals doing bad things are to be resisted or not.  History is pretty clear that evil and lawbreaking has to be resisted or chaos will rule.  IMO, this cop did his job and now he's being crucified for it.  I hope the rest of the cops in this community stick their hands in their pockets and watch the circus come to town.

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aztek

when Walter Scott was shot in the back while posing no threat, but running away, and the cop planed the evidence on camera, judge decided it was justifiable shooting, if it was not for federal charge of violating constitutional rights, he would walk away, so i do not see this cop going to jail.

Edited by aztek

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seanjo
22 hours ago, Gromdor said:

I can rehash:

Implying that cops are twitchy because blacks statistically kill the most black men.

I replied:

Just out of curiosity,  who are cops most likely to be killed by?

Cops are twitchy because anyone they confront, Black, European, Asian or Native could be carrying a gun.

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aztek

it is not that they are twitchy, the state wants them to be like that, they have to be feared otherwise the state has no enforcers,

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Farmer77

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skliss
On 6/28/2018 at 9:51 AM, aztek said:

cool story.

Reality...my grandfather,  cousins, uncle and godfather are/were police, male and female in what you would term the ghetto. They've been spit at, called every name in the book and when a situation arrises they put their lives on the line for those same people. What happens when no one is willing to take on this tough job anymore? 

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kartikg

Well one less thug off the street. Wonder how many crimes he would have committed if escaped. 

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aztek
24 minutes ago, skliss said:

Reality...my grandfather,  cousins, uncle and godfather are/were police, male and female in what you would term the ghetto. They've been spit at, called every name in the book and when a situation arrises they put their lives on the line for those same people. What happens when no one is willing to take on this tough job anymore? 

15\15\70 that is reality. 0 convictions by judges, that is reality. blue line of brotherhood cover up and silence, that is reality.

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Shiloh

In the military you can be dishonorably discharged for a number of reasons effectively ending your military career. The Police need something like, but I suspect the Unions would greatly object. When a Police Officer puts on a badge it doesn't make them the most righteous thing in the universe. They have been caught murdering, lying, cheating, stealing, and everything other people of all colors, occupations and religions have done. They are not perfect just because they wear a badge. This isn't an anti-Police rant either, it is just that people are tired of the old line "I thought I saw a weapon", killing someone and walking away scott free. Like my post on the first page said, that Police Officer ran up to that man, already wounded from guns shots to the back, hands clearly in sight, and executed him by firing a few more rounds.

Edited by Vilasarius

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aztek

i personally do not see it as few bad apples, even thou there are more than few, it is institutional problem, the state needs cops be like that, they need them to keep population in fear, because cops are their enforcers. that is why the system always protects them, and itself,  it's enforcing gvmnt will. and gvmnt will not care how many they kill to make sure people obey their enforcers.  it is compound issue, corrupt cops, that abuse power and always getting away, and always covered by their buddies in the union, and courts,  and their role in society which is not what they  want us to think it is. they are not protecting us, they protect only themselves and gvmnt officials. they even make sure cops do not think twice before killing a senior, a kid or pregnant women, they train on targets that are seniors, kids, and pregnant women.

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F3SS

Well Farmer I don’t think it’s equal to compare dangerous trades to the dangers of policing. While logging and roofing are dangerous there aren’t actual people looking to kill you for it on any given day. 

 

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Menhir
On 6/27/2018 at 4:02 PM, Kismit said:

I  don't understand why tazers are not employed in a run away situation. 

Because a taser doesn't have much range, only about 35 feet max.  It takes less than 2 seconds for someone to sprint that distance...less time than than unholstering the taser.   And there's no "followup shot" if the taser dart doesn't hit effectively.  And even if the dart did connect within 2 seconds, when the runner hits thevend of the wire, it will yank the taser out of the officer's hand or rip out the dart.  The taser is not a "catch and release" device.

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Farmer77
22 hours ago, F3SS said:

Well Farmer I don’t think it’s equal to compare dangerous trades to the dangers of policing. While logging and roofing are dangerous there aren’t actual people looking to kill you for it on any given day. 

 

Clearly you've never been a part 135 operator, 3/4 of those planes are trying to kill you every time they lift off :lol:

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Myles

 Now the police could have shot this guy.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/11/police-chiefs-son-18-charged-with-beating-elderly-sikh-man-smiles-flips-bird-in-court-reports.html

The 18-year-old son of a police chief in California’s Bay Area, who allegedly attacked a 71-year-old Sikh man, appeared in court Friday, smiling and waving his middle fingers at media cameras, a report said.

Tyrone Keith McAllister, estranged son of Union City police Chief Darryl McAllister, entered the courtroom and flipped his middle fingers at their camera, Sacramento's FOX 40 reported.

 

 

 

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lost_shaman
On 6/27/2018 at 12:37 PM, and then said:

My understanding about use of lethal force is that it is acceptable if the officer feels his life is in jeopardy or if the suspect is considered armed and dangerous to the public.  The vehicle Mr. Rose was a passenger in was identified as being at the scene of a drive-by shooting.  It was pulled over, had bullet holes in it and the kid ran.  The cop thought he saw a weapon but regardless whether Antwon had one on him or not, the cop had reason to believe that he was armed and fleeing.  That makes it a righteous shooting, IMO. 

You can't shoot someone in the back while they are fleeing. Where that may be different if it was clear the suspect had a gun and either fired at the Officer or other people then the Officer could return fire and if the suspect turned while being fired back at and was hit in the back then that would be justified. Since that didn't happen the Offiver should have called for backup and the Supervisors and would determine how to search for the the suspect or cordon off an area to search. But just believing a suspect is armed doesn't allow you or an Officer to shoot them in the back while fleeing. 

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