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Roc Koch

Egypt, was it already there?

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lilthor

I won't be happy if it turns out these proto-Egyptians had flying cars.

Image result for popular mechanics|science  flying cars

We should've had 'em years ago.

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DingoLingo

giphy.gif

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jaylemurph
Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Roc Koch said:

I have trained in Engineering, Architecture and all aspects of Marketing. I am a former member of a University President’s Office, a Publisher of thousands of artifacts and articles including a Lover of Archaeology. I’ve worked for Presidents, CEOs, Governors and Top Thinkers. I know this Universe! My assertion is that we have been lied to about Ancient Egypt! Its governing structure was highly advanced and beyond our present day cultures/civilizations! To create the engineering feats present even today, they were in possession of hidden devices beyond lasers. Their mathematics were other worldly. Their language and hieroglyphic symbolically designed logos were set up for optical-character readers perfectly derived. Their “Zep Tepi” civilization was preplanned to last thousands of ages. 12,900 years ago a bolide fragmented, raining upon the planet destroying much of our past. They saw it coming and left their civilization as a message to future survivors. They wondered into Karnak and became Egyptians. The script was already laid out for them. Almost all of what we see today, was constructed long ago and the stage was set for future people to take their parts to play.
 

If you're going to proclaim credentials and have them be a serious part of your argument, you need to provide evidence of those credentials.

So let's see them. Because you've been caught out lying about them before here.

EDIT: Piney caught you out recently in a currently-open thread, even, so the pressure is on.

--Jaylemurph

Edited by jaylemurph
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Herr Falukorv

If they were so advanced as you claim...
Why did they build with stone?

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danydandan
43 minutes ago, Roc Koch said:

I have trained in Engineering, Architecture and all aspects of Marketing. I am a former member of a University President’s Office, a Publisher of thousands of artifacts and articles including a Lover of Archaeology. I’ve worked for Presidents, CEOs, Governors and Top Thinkers. I know this Universe! My assertion is that we have been lied to about Ancient Egypt! Its governing structure was highly advanced and beyond our present day cultures/civilizations! To create the engineering feats present even today, they were in possession of hidden devices beyond lasers. Their mathematics were other worldly. Their language and hieroglyphic symbolically designed logos were set up for optical-character readers perfectly derived. Their “Zep Tepi” civilization was preplanned to last thousands of ages. 12,900 years ago a bolide fragmented, raining upon the planet destroying much of our past. They saw it coming and left their civilization as a message to future survivors. They wondered into Karnak and became Egyptians. The script was already laid out for them. Almost all of what we see today, was constructed long ago and the stage was set for future people to take their parts to play.
 

What specific engineering do/did you study and work in?

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Essan
45 minutes ago, Roc Koch said:

I have trained in Engineering, Architecture and all aspects of Marketing. I am a former member of a University President’s Office, a Publisher of thousands of artifacts and articles including a Lover of Archaeology. I’ve worked for Presidents, CEOs, Governors and Top Thinkers. I know this Universe! My assertion is that we have been lied to about Ancient Egypt! Its governing structure was highly advanced and beyond our present day cultures/civilizations! To create the engineering feats present even today, they were in possession of hidden devices beyond lasers. Their mathematics were other worldly. Their language and hieroglyphic symbolically designed logos were set up for optical-character readers perfectly derived. Their “Zep Tepi” civilization was preplanned to last thousands of ages. 12,900 years ago a bolide fragmented, raining upon the planet destroying much of our past. They saw it coming and left their civilization as a message to future survivors. They wondered into Karnak and became Egyptians. The script was already laid out for them. Almost all of what we see today, was constructed long ago and the stage was set for future people to take their parts to play.
 

A civilisation 12,900 years ago?  They weren't that clever.  They left no trace of their existence whatsoever!   Not even a hint of pollution in the ice cores ....

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jaylemurph
1 minute ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

I might not be trained in the dairy industry, but I know bull**** when I see it.

That tends to be the OP's problem here, the wide-spread ability to locate bull leavings.

--Jaylemurph

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jmccr8
1 hour ago, Roc Koch said:

I have trained in Engineering, Architecture and all aspects of Marketing. I am a former member of a University President’s Office, a Publisher of thousands of artifacts and articles including a Lover of Archaeology. I’ve worked for Presidents, CEOs, Governors and Top Thinkers. I know this Universe! My assertion is that we have been lied to about Ancient Egypt! Its governing structure was highly advanced and beyond our present day cultures/civilizations! To create the engineering feats present even today, they were in possession of hidden devices beyond lasers. Their mathematics were other worldly. Their language and hieroglyphic symbolically designed logos were set up for optical-character readers perfectly derived. Their “Zep Tepi” civilization was preplanned to last thousands of ages. 12,900 years ago a bolide fragmented, raining upon the planet destroying much of our past. They saw it coming and left their civilization as a message to future survivors. They wondered into Karnak and became Egyptians. The script was already laid out for them. Almost all of what we see today, was constructed long ago and the stage was set for future people to take their parts to play.
 

Hi Roc

You know what they say "any fool can pee on the floor but it takes a real hero to sheet on the ceiling". My take is that you haven't hit the hero status yet.

jmccr8

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Tom the Photon
1 hour ago, Essan said:

A civilisation 12,900 years ago?  They weren't that clever.  They left no trace of their existence whatsoever!   Not even a hint of pollution in the ice cores ....

On the contrary - doesn't your point emphasise precisely how advanced and smart they really were?  They set up a global civilisation, jetted around and journeyed into space, harnessed the power of the Sun and tapped into hidden energies of the Universe (I'm struggling now) without leaving a single trace!  So they obviously built out of biodegradable materials and used pollution-free energy for transport, power and other stuff.  And they had no need for written records so they must have invented computers and the Cloud before everything else.  They lived in peace and harmony with nature and were probably stoned 24/7.

But in every society there are always mavericks who insist on not taking drugs and doing things their own way, such as creating completely useless sculptures.  Today we call them "modern artists" (or "tw@ts"), back then they were called "ancient artists".  That's why we have all these pointless piles of stones everywhere - Stonehenge, the Pyramids, the Great Wall of China, etc.  They don't mean anything - they're just art.

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Mike8272

I haven't posted in ages, but I lurk and read threads from time to time and this one did catch my eye because I do remember reading about a claim that the Ancient Egyptians didn't build the big three pyramids and the sphinx, instead they were built by a lost civilisation. 

The first part was about the sphinx. They claimed it was far older than commonly accepted because it couldn't have been carved out of rock while the sand was there, instead it was carved while the land was fertile and that was thousands of years before the ancient Egyptians were there meaning they couldn't have carved it.  

As for pyramids they argued that the ancient Egyptians could have built the smaller pyramids but it would have been impossible for them to have built the bigger pyramids because they couldn't have moved the blocks, even with today's technology it would be difficult. So the argument in regards to the big pyramids was that they were constructed by an advanced civilisation that was present something like ten thousand years before the commonly accepted build date (which I think it roughly 2,500 BC?), which would put them there before the ancient Egyptians arrived.

Do I think that parts of Egypt were already there when the ancient Egyptians arrived?

I would say that the idea that a lost civilisation built certain constrictions that have been attributed to the ancient Egyptians does makes sense [to an extent]. I am sure we have all questioned how the ancient Egyptians built what they did with the technology that was readily available to them, and if we would struggle to build them with today's technology, then I would tend to agree that it is possible that certain constructions might have already been there when the ancient Egyptians arrived. I don't think anyone has definitely proved how every construction was built and when they were built. Opinion is split on certain topics. For instance there are people that believe that Atlantis was real and was lost, whereas others believe it was a fictional place created by Plato. So depending on where you stand on certain topics like the existence of ancient civilisations, the idea that parts of ancient Egypt were present when they arrived is actually not that far-fetched and it might be the reason why they then built the smaller pyramids and landmarks that they did. Then again maybe they did build everything. It's hard to say because what is currently known and accepted is the definitive story and I am not convinced it is one that people would be willing to amend or challenge. 

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cormac mac airt
3 hours ago, Roc Koch said:

I have trained in Engineering, Architecture and all aspects of Marketing. I am a former member of a University President’s Office, a Publisher of thousands of artifacts and articles including a Lover of Archaeology. I’ve worked for Presidents, CEOs, Governors and Top Thinkers. I know this Universe! My assertion is that we have been lied to about Ancient Egypt! Its governing structure was highly advanced and beyond our present day cultures/civilizations! To create the engineering feats present even today, they were in possession of hidden devices beyond lasers. Their mathematics were other worldly. Their language and hieroglyphic symbolically designed logos were set up for optical-character readers perfectly derived. Their “Zep Tepi” civilization was preplanned to last thousands of ages. 12,900 years ago a bolide fragmented, raining upon the planet destroying much of our past. They saw it coming and left their civilization as a message to future survivors. They wondered into Karnak and became Egyptians. The script was already laid out for them. Almost all of what we see today, was constructed long ago and the stage was set for future people to take their parts to play.
 

No thanks, for fiction I prefer Stargate: SG1. It's infinitely more entertaining. :tu:

cormac

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Lord Harry
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Roc Koch said:

I have trained in Engineering, Architecture and all aspects of Marketing. I am a former member of a University President’s Office, a Publisher of thousands of artifacts and articles including a Lover of Archaeology. I’ve worked for Presidents, CEOs, Governors and Top Thinkers. I know this Universe! My assertion is that we have been lied to about Ancient Egypt! Its governing structure was highly advanced and beyond our present day cultures/civilizations! To create the engineering feats present even today, they were in possession of hidden devices beyond lasers. Their mathematics were other worldly. Their language and hieroglyphic symbolically designed logos were set up for optical-character readers perfectly derived. Their “Zep Tepi” civilization was preplanned to last thousands of ages. 12,900 years ago a bolide fragmented, raining upon the planet destroying much of our past. They saw it coming and left their civilization as a message to future survivors. They wondered into Karnak and became Egyptians. The script was already laid out for them. Almost all of what we see today, was constructed long ago and the stage was set for future people to take their parts to play.
 

Well, you are correct in a sense...but as another fringe poster was in the habit of saying "only in a left handed sort of way."  Yes, the ancient Egyptians were highly advanced, in fact they were the most sophisticated civilization to arise during the Bronze Age.  Now with that being said, it was not so much their possession of advanced technology that gave rise to their success, but rather the skillful and industrious manner in which they employed the Bronze Age technology that was available to them.

The ancient Egyptians were masters of state planning and in the efficient management of national resources.  The king, as god on earth, commanded the absolute obedience of his people and was thus able to marshal manpower and resources in a manner that enabled the machinations of state to literally move mountains.  Take the Great Pyramid of Khufu for example.  It was constructed in a mere twenty years with a core labor force of around 5,000 skilled workmen.  These men were professional craftsmen, stone masons, artisans, metallurgists etc...who lived year round at the pyramid site and were rewarded with the finest cuts of beef and an afterlife with their king in the celestial realm.  The remainder of the labor force consisted of approximately 20,000 conscripted peasants who worked in three, four month shifts, after which they returned to their towns and villages.  To quarry, cut, and shape the limestone blocks the Egyptian stone masons employed copper saws, hammers, and chisels.  Contrary to popular belief, the copper used by the Old Kingdom Egyptians was not "soft." It was intentionally hardened through molding and the addition of arsenic which effectively produced a form of bronze.  To cut through harder stone such as granite the Egyptians employed several sophisticated techniques.  They would use pounders made from dolerite (a stone even harder than bronze), as well as wooden wedges with boiling water in order to loosen the rock from the granite quarry.  For shaping the granite, they used the standard copper saws with the addition of quartzite and corundum abrasives.

In order to erect the massive edifice itself, the labor force used a complex network of ramps and counterweights.  The lower third of the pyramid was constructed using a series of four external ramps.  While the remaining 2/3 were built using an internal ramp which was largely built using the stone blocks from the dismantled external ramps.  The granite beams which protected the King's Chamber were a bit more tricky to put into place.  For this purpose, the grand gallery was used as a massive counterweight system.  

Uninformed laymen might justifiably ask why on earth would the Egyptians have gone through all that trouble simply to build a tomb for their king.  The answer is both as straightforward as it is simple.  The king not only held absolute power of life and death over his subjects, he was also believed to be god on earth.  

So you see, the ancient Egyptian civilization with all of its remarkable sophistication can be explained without citing hypothetical extraterrestrial entities or lost technologies.

Edited by Lord Harry
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Sir Wearer of Hats
2 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Roc

You know what they say "any fool can pee on the floor but it takes a real hero to sheet on the ceiling". My take is that you haven't hit the hero status yet.

jmccr8

When I was a kid, some damn fool of an architect thought it was a good idea to put permanently open windows high up in the boy’s toilets. Just above the urinal trough. Now, all the kids KNEW not to stand near the toilets. Because of obvious reasons.

the Principal wasn’t precisely let in on this memo.

Suffice it to say, the windows were replaced sharpish. And we ALL got a nice lecture. A nice, long, threats of expulsion lecture.

we never found out who the hero was, but my suspicious were it was the lad who was suspended not a week later.

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ShadowSot
1 hour ago, Mike8272 said:

The first part was about the sphinx. They claimed it was far older than commonly accepted because it couldn't have been carved out of rock while the sand was there, instead it was carved while the land was fertile and that was thousands of years before the ancient Egyptians were there meaning they couldn't have carved it. 

Yes, this has been discussed heavily here. It's based on a single point of evidence from a single claim. Which doesn't fit or match with the other known facts of the area and can equally be explained by other reasons. 

 Sand drawing water onto the Sphinx while it was covered, rain fall in the past being heavier than expacted, and under predicting how much rain actually falls at one point.

 And Harte has noted that the same erosion patterns claimed as proof of the Sphinx's age are also present in areas even the author recognizes as clearly Ancient Egyptian. 

1 hour ago, Mike8272 said:

As for pyramids they argued that the ancient Egyptians could have built the smaller pyramids but it would have been impossible for them to have built the bigger pyramids because they couldn't have moved the blocks, even with today's technology it would be difficult.

This is patently false.

 For one, much heavier stones have been moved by simple human tools or by brute man power, such as the trilithion at Baalbek, or the Thunderstone in Russia. The factory I used to work at, we used to move 2 and three ton machines with a small crew and get them placed, leveled, and in line with outlets and connectors within a few hours with little mechanical assistance. 

1 hour ago, Mike8272 said:

t. So the argument in regards to the big pyramids was that they were constructed by an advanced civilisation that was present something like ten thousand years before the commonly accepted build date (which I think it roughly 2,500 BC?), which would put them there before the ancient Egyptians arrived.

An argument built on false presumptions, as mentioned above. 

 As well, we have carbon dating of charcoal from the mortar used in the pyramids, which places them within the time period expected.  Yes, it's claimed this was from repair work. However in order to get too these areas the pyramids would have to have been either taken apart or have been in complete ruins, far more than their present state today. 

 Which would require the Egyptians to have been able to move those blocks in the first place the presenters claim they couldn't move to begin with. 

1 hour ago, Mike8272 said:

Opinion is split on certain topics. For instance there are people that believe that Atlantis was real and was lost, whereas others believe it was a fictional place created by Plato.

Yes, but the opinions tend to shift towards it being false the more you know of world history, geology, and Plato. It is bare fact that the Atlantis envisioned by Plato has little resemblance to the Atlantis dreamt up in fringe literature. 

 Opinions are only worth the strength of the premises they are established on, in this case the opinions against the established time period are built on shoddy grounding. 

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Gaden
4 hours ago, Roc Koch said:

I have trained in Engineering, Architecture and all aspects of Marketing. I am a former member of a University President’s Office, a Publisher of thousands of artifacts and articles including a Lover of Archaeology. I’ve worked for Presidents, CEOs, Governors and Top Thinkers. I know this Universe! My assertion is that we have been lied to about Ancient Egypt! Its governing structure was highly advanced and beyond our present day cultures/civilizations! To create the engineering feats present even today, they were in possession of hidden devices beyond lasers. Their mathematics were other worldly. Their language and hieroglyphic symbolically designed logos were set up for optical-character readers perfectly derived. Their “Zep Tepi” civilization was preplanned to last thousands of ages. 12,900 years ago a bolide fragmented, raining upon the planet destroying much of our past. They saw it coming and left their civilization as a message to future survivors. They wondered into Karnak and became Egyptians. The script was already laid out for them. Almost all of what we see today, was constructed long ago and the stage was set for future people to take their parts to play.
 

 Right... You've been a member here for ten years, and you're just now revealing this. You have a very low estimation of our intelligence, it would seem.

 

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Tom the Photon
7 hours ago, Lord Harry said:

In order to erect the massive edifice itself, the labor force used a complex network of ramps and counterweights.  The lower third of the pyramid was constructed using a series of four external ramps.  While the remaining 2/3 were built using an internal ramp which was largely built using the stone blocks from the dismantled external ramps. 

Begging your Lordship's pardon, but this squalid little oik needs something explained in simpler terms a humble rat-catcher can understand...

I agree with everything else you wrote, I just need clarification on the point isolated above.  If the external ramps only reached to the first third of the pyramid, and these were dismantled to reuse the stones, how did they lift blocks to higher levels?  I know the upper blocks were smaller, so easier to move, but logically the external ramps must stay in place to connect to the internal ramp?

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Kenemet
12 hours ago, Roc Koch said:

I have trained in Engineering, Architecture and all aspects of Marketing. I am a former member of a University President’s Office, a Publisher of thousands of artifacts and articles including a Lover of Archaeology. I’ve worked for Presidents, CEOs, Governors and Top Thinkers. I know this Universe! My assertion is that we have been lied to about Ancient Egypt! Its governing structure was highly advanced and beyond our present day cultures/civilizations! To create the engineering feats present even today, they were in possession of hidden devices beyond lasers. Their mathematics were other worldly. Their language and hieroglyphic symbolically designed logos were set up for optical-character readers perfectly derived. Their “Zep Tepi” civilization was preplanned to last thousands of ages. 12,900 years ago a bolide fragmented, raining upon the planet destroying much of our past. They saw it coming and left their civilization as a message to future survivors. They wondered into Karnak and became Egyptians. The script was already laid out for them. Almost all of what we see today, was constructed long ago and the stage was set for future people to take their parts to play.
 

So you're saying that the civilization went from wandering around and building brush huts to ... our level of sophistication overnight?  And they somehow got metals from the earth without leaving a trace - like mines?  And they managed to build factories and power plants without leaving any footprints of the roads (although we can find traces of ancient roads that are 6,000 years and more older)?

And that they knew an asteroid impact would hit (but would not leave a single trace) and somehow it would land on every single advanced city on Earth and all the power plants and all the mines and the vast farms needed to feed all the people and destroy natural resources... while returning the land to the same state it was in for 50,000 years previous?

And that for all their wonderful technology, they couldn't manage to launch a rocket to blast the thing out of space?

Or teach people how to read and write (where's the alphabets?)

Doesn't seem like you put much thought into it.  Seems like you rather uncritically recycled a lot of old stuff that's long been debunked and one of the recent ideas that got smacked down by paleontologists, astronomers, biologists, and archaeologists.

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Timothy

@Roc Koch, I don’t even believe you when you say you have marketing training. If so, your skills in that area are extremely lacking. 

And what does it even mean when you say you ‘have trained in’ something anyway? 

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Gaden
14 hours ago, Mike8272 said:

I haven't posted in ages, but I lurk and read threads from time to time and this one did catch my eye because I do remember reading about a claim that the Ancient Egyptians didn't build the big three pyramids and the sphinx, instead they were built by a lost civilisation. 

The first part was about the sphinx. They claimed it was far older than commonly accepted because it couldn't have been carved out of rock while the sand was there, instead it was carved while the land was fertile and that was thousands of years before the ancient Egyptians were there meaning they couldn't have carved it.  

As for pyramids they argued that the ancient Egyptians could have built the smaller pyramids but it would have been impossible for them to have built the bigger pyramids because they couldn't have moved the blocks, even with today's technology it would be difficult. So the argument in regards to the big pyramids was that they were constructed by an advanced civilisation that was present something like ten thousand years before the commonly accepted build date (which I think it roughly 2,500 BC?), which would put them there before the ancient Egyptians arrived.

Do I think that parts of Egypt were already there when the ancient Egyptians arrived?

I would say that the idea that a lost civilisation built certain constrictions that have been attributed to the ancient Egyptians does makes sense [to an extent]. I am sure we have all questioned how the ancient Egyptians built what they did with the technology that was readily available to them, and if we would struggle to build them with today's technology, then I would tend to agree that it is possible that certain constructions might have already been there when the ancient Egyptians arrived. I don't think anyone has definitely proved how every construction was built and when they were built. Opinion is split on certain topics. For instance there are people that believe that Atlantis was real and was lost, whereas others believe it was a fictional place created by Plato. So depending on where you stand on certain topics like the existence of ancient civilisations, the idea that parts of ancient Egypt were present when they arrived is actually not that far-fetched and it might be the reason why they then built the smaller pyramids and landmarks that they did. Then again maybe they did build everything. It's hard to say because what is currently known and accepted is the definitive story and I am not convinced it is one that people would be willing to amend or challenge. 

 Actually, I am very interested in why you would think any of these things are true. Shadow Sot, as always, gave reasonable response to your post, but I would like to know exactly why you prefer to believe stories by just a handful of fringe AUTHORS, while several hundred SCIENTISTS almost unanimously agree on the mainstream view. Let's remember, after all, that a fringe AUTHOR may spend a few days to a few months  researching a topic, most of our mainstream knowledge of ancient Egypt was garnered by EGYPTOLOGISTS, many, if not most, who dedicated their entire lives to the study. Some actually lived on site for many years, and did nothing other than study ancient Egypt. They are the ones who did the excavations, cataloged all of the items, etc. And yet you refer to a very small number of writers who are not experts and in fact, have spent very little time studying the subject.

 I would say that the idea of a lost civilisation is ludicrous. It makes for an interesting story, yes, but in reality, all civilisations leave evidence of their existence, the more advanced ones even more so. You may have questioned how the AE built what they with the technology that was readily available to them, but I don't. As an example of what man is capable of, consider that there are a number of Egyptian obelisks (stolen and moved) in Rome, the largest of which is 455 tons, and yet no one questions the Romans ability to move them. So tell me, if the Romans could remove a 455 ton obelisk from Egypt and move it all the way to Rome, why couldn't the AE do what you say is not possible?

 You say opinion is split on certain topics, which is technically true, except you didn't mention that on one side of the split, there are several hundred experts, and on the other, a handful of writers. And yet, you continue to believe the things that you do. Can you make any sense of this?

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jaylemurph
10 hours ago, Timothy said:

@Roc Koch, I don’t even believe you when you say you have marketing training. If so, your skills in that area are extremely lacking. 

And what does it even mean when you say you ‘have trained in’ something anyway? 

It's a way for him to pretend he has qualifications he doesn't have.

As I've pointed out before, he's tried this before here and been massively shamed with the outcome. I don't think it's coincidence he's already abandoned this thread.

--Jaylemurph

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Kenemet
On 6/28/2018 at 2:52 PM, Roc Koch said:

I am a former member of a University President’s Office, a Publisher of thousands of artifacts ...

Writing about groups of artifacts on message boards does not make you a "publisher of thousands of artifacts."  Having worked with museums (the Perot, the Herd) and having been published, I find that your lack of grammatical skills make this a highly dubious claim.   If you'd truly published, you'd be using proper format and referencing artifacts by museum catalog number... as many here do who HAVE verified publication credits.

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ShadowSot
6 hours ago, Gaden said:

I would like to know exactly why you prefer to believe stories by just a handful of fringe AUTHORS, while several hundred SCIENTISTS almost unanimously agree on the mainstream view. Let's remember, after all, that a fringe AUTHOR may spend a few days to a few months  researching a topic, most of our mainstream knowledge of ancient Egypt was garnered by EGYPTOLOGISTS, many, if not most, who dedicated their entire lives to the study. Some actually lived on site for many years, and did nothing other than study ancient Egypt. They are the ones who did the excavations, cataloged all of the items, etc. And yet you refer to a very small number of writers who are not experts and in fact, have spent very little time studying the subject

I'd like to add, that there is a usual response that of course they will shut down fringe discussion because it threatens their careers. However writers like Von Daniken and Sitchin and others were or are writing as long as, or longer than most active and practicing Archaeologists. By the same token they are entrenched and have their own careers to defend against proof they are wrong. 

By the same metric they are just as unreliable to the fringes purpose as regular Archaeologist, if they applied their logic consistently. 

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danydandan

Considering it takes around 8 years to be qualified as an architect, around 5-6 years to obtain a masters degree in an engineering field and as the op has claimed to teach marketing in a college I assumed he would need at least an other masters degree so that another six years. It's also claimed that he is retired now, so assuming college started at 18. 18+8+6+6=38. So let's assume at the age of 38 our op had all his qualifications and assuming retirement is around 60. That leaves 22 years to become proficient in all three discipline leaving 7.3 years at each one. Well if you think your qualified at anything after 7.3 years your sorely mistaken.

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