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Ex-NASA scientist claims that UFOs are real

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lost_shaman
4 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

The action of snapping your fingers is quite a bit slower.

I don't know how you've determined this UFO travelled at 47,727 mph based on the speed of snapping one's fingers.

The "snap" of you fingers is about 0.01 seconds, that's about how fast I estimate it moved 700 feet so that's where the numbers come from. You don't like that, I don't care. 

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stereologist
5 hours ago, lost_shaman said:

If I can hear a finger snap and other people measure that bring 0.01 seconds then what is your problem with that? All you can say is I can't tell if the UFO I witnessed jumped 700 feet that fast. I say it did!

That doesn't mean that you can determine the length of time the snap occurred. People can detect flashes of light that last microseconds yet no one can sense microseconds either.

You can say that it happened, it is not possible for people to detect time intervals less than 77 milliseconds.

You can't tell if an event was 0 seconds or around 1/10 of a second. An event in that time interval can be determined by human perception. That is the best case. In reality our perceptions are much worse than that. Our memories are corruptible.

Say whatever you want, but as you post what is not possible to know it tells me that your story is a good part wishful thinking, corrupted memory, and confusion.

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stereologist
1 hour ago, lost_shaman said:

The "snap" of you fingers is about 0.01 seconds, that's about how fast I estimate it moved 700 feet so that's where the numbers come from. You don't like that, I don't care. 

I agree that you don't care about anything but telling a yarn which is more fantasy than fact. Just because you can detect a sound does not mean you can determine how long the sound lasted. The more you jabber on about what you can't determine as being fact the more it seems that you've altered the event into a false memory. In fact, you've gone to the extreme of inventing an irrational explanation to support this false memory.

You saw something. I believe that.

You watched something change position. I believe that, too.

The object's change in position surprised and confused you. This can happen through the size constancy portion of our visual system. People interpret a change in size as a change in position. There are many ways people can be confused by what they see. That is but one.

You created an explanation for your confusing observation. People do that. It's natural.

Your explanation is the only thing you will believe and no other explanations are allowed. I believe that.

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lost_shaman
11 hours ago, stereologist said:

That doesn't mean that you can determine the length of time the snap occurred. People can detect flashes of light that last microseconds yet no one can sense microseconds either.

You can say that it happened, it is not possible for people to detect time intervals less than 77 milliseconds.

You can't tell if an event was 0 seconds or around 1/10 of a second. An event in that time interval can be determined by human perception. That is the best case. In reality our perceptions are much worse than that. Our memories are corruptible.

Say whatever you want, but as you post what is not possible to know it tells me that your story is a good part wishful thinking, corrupted memory, and confusion.

I said, it happened just as fast as if you snapped your fingers, the snap of your fingers has been measured by people and the bulk of what you hear occurs in 0.01-0.02 seconds. That's FAST and that's about how FAST this thing moved, so fast it was barely perceptible it was almost instantaneous so from my point of view there is nothing wrong with what I said. 

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lost_shaman
12 hours ago, stereologist said:

I agree that you don't care about anything but telling a yarn which is more fantasy than fact. Just because you can detect a sound does not mean you can determine how long the sound lasted. The more you jabber on about what you can't determine as being fact the more it seems that you've altered the event into a false memory. In fact, you've gone to the extreme of inventing an irrational explanation to support this false memory.

You saw something. I believe that.

You watched something change position. I believe that, too.

The object's change in position surprised and confused you. This can happen through the size constancy portion of our visual system. People interpret a change in size as a change in position. There are many ways people can be confused by what they see. That is but one.

You created an explanation for your confusing observation. People do that. It's natural.

Your explanation is the only thing you will believe and no other explanations are allowed. I believe that.

I think you are the one just jabbering, my UFO was on the Family Farm and it was following the creek, I know where the creek is and I know where my car was parked, so unlike most UFO sightings I can measure how far it away it was from me and when I say it "jumped" across that distance I mean it literally was 700 feet away to being "almost" instantly about 20 yards or less from my car. If you insist that I couldn't have perceived that motion I basically couldn't. So how fast was that? The example I can think of is a "snap" of your fingers and that would be 0.01 - 0.02 seconds. Like you said barely even perceptible. And it was barely even perceptible. Even if you want to say it must have happened in a tenth of a second or whatever, then that's still 7,000 fps! Or 4,772 mph!

Edited by lost_shaman

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Rlyeh
13 hours ago, lost_shaman said:

The "snap" of you fingers is about 0.01 seconds, that's about how fast I estimate it moved 700 feet so that's where the numbers come from. You don't like that, I don't care. 

It's also unreliable.

Did you see this object when you were in or out of your car?

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lost_shaman
1 minute ago, Rlyeh said:

It's also unreliable.

Did you see this object when you were in or out of your car?

In the car, with the window halfway rolled down.

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stereologist
2 hours ago, lost_shaman said:

I said, it happened just as fast as if you snapped your fingers, the snap of your fingers has been measured by people and the bulk of what you hear occurs in 0.01-0.02 seconds. That's FAST and that's about how FAST this thing moved, so fast it was barely perceptible it was almost instantaneous so from my point of view there is nothing wrong with what I said. 

That is rather than human perception of time. That you are making it abundantly clear that your story is substantially fiction.

And yes what you said was poppycock. Go ahead and be ignorant of human perception instead of learning.

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stereologist
2 hours ago, lost_shaman said:

I think you are the one just jabbering, my UFO was on the Family Farm and it was following the creek, I know where the creek is and I know where my car was parked, so unlike most UFO sightings I can measure how far it away it was from me and when I say it "jumped" across that distance I mean it literally was 700 feet away to being "almost" instantly about 20 yards or less from my car. If you insist that I couldn't have perceived that motion I basically couldn't. So how fast was that? The example I can think of is a "snap" of your fingers and that would be 0.01 - 0.02 seconds. Like you said barely even perceptible. And it was barely even perceptible. Even if you want to say it must have happened in a tenth of a second or whatever, then that's still 7,000 fps! Or 4,772 mph!

Let me repeat myself since you are so entrenched in your delusions you can't understand the obvious.

You saw something. I believe that.

You watched something change position. I believe that, too.

The object's change in position surprised and confused you. This can happen through the size constancy portion of our visual system. People interpret a change in size as a change in position. There are many ways people can be confused by what they see. That is but one.

You created an explanation for your confusing observation. People do that. It's natural.

Your explanation is the only thing you will believe and no other explanations are allowed. I believe that.

 

Your story is based on your confusion and misunderstanding of what happened. By now you have probably concocted this false memory of the events to support your delusions such as defying physics and 7000 fps or whatever travel.

Your story is a story and frankly about the only thing I believe is that you saw something.

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lost_shaman

You can go right on ahead and believe whatever you want, but my sighting happened the way I said it happened and I know there are thousands of people out there just like you who will never accept what I have to say and that's fine. That said stop insinuating that I'm a liar or making up my sighting. I'm not making it up or having delusions about it or anything like that, I simply witnessed a UFO, and UFO's do strange and incredible sounding things. Plain and simple. 

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XenoFish

Ufo's in the little grey men sense do not exist. 

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lost_shaman
2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Ufo's in the little grey men sense do not exist. 

I've never said they do, in that sense. However, UFO's that do strange and incredible sounding things do exist whatever they are and people do see actual UFO's on occasion and I'm not talking about idiots seeing a light in the sky doing nothing strange and thinking they've seen a UFO.

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XenoFish
2 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

I've never said they do, in that sense. However, UFO's that do strange and incredible sounding things do exist whatever they are and people do see actual UFO's on occasion and I'm not talking about idiots seeing a light in the sky doing nothing strange and thinking they've seen a UFO.

I see a lot of weird light in the sky. But I'll never start a thread about them. Nor will I claim I've seen a ufo. I won't call it one either. Too many satellites in the sky. 

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psyche101
On 9/10/2018 at 5:26 AM, lost_shaman said:

If I can hear a finger snap and other people measure that bring 0.01 seconds then what is your problem with that? All you can say is I can't tell if the UFO I witnessed jumped 700 feet that fast. I say it did!

Are you sure it moved, and did not dissappear and reappear, or rather appear to dissappear and reappear? 

Would it not be more likely that one one light extinguished and another ignited? 

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lost_shaman
5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Are you sure it moved, and did not dissappear and reappear, or rather appear to dissappear and reappear? 

Would it not be more likely that one one light extinguished and another ignited? 

No psyche, it was the same object.

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stereologist
On 9/10/2018 at 11:54 AM, lost_shaman said:

You can go right on ahead and believe whatever you want, but my sighting happened the way I said it happened and I know there are thousands of people out there just like you who will never accept what I have to say and that's fine. That said stop insinuating that I'm a liar or making up my sighting. I'm not making it up or having delusions about it or anything like that, I simply witnessed a UFO, and UFO's do strange and incredible sounding things. Plain and simple. 

Of course it did NOT happen as you said it did. You are claiming impossible abilities for yourself.

It seems you are incapable of understanding the simple fact that it is not possible for humans to determine time durations as short as you claim to be able to determine. I guess I have to repeat yourself.

Do I believe you saw something. Yes.

Do I believe it happened as you claimed. Definitely not.

You are pretending to be some sort of superhuman with abilities which just does not exist. Maybe you can dress up your story next time by pretending to be an alien.

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stereologist
On 9/11/2018 at 12:01 AM, lost_shaman said:

No psyche, it was the same object.

I don't believe you know that. You're already pretending that  you can determine time durations 2 orders of magnitude faster than a human is able to. It's that kryptonian ability

There are other visual clues that could have tricked you such as the size constancy issue. As objects change their position they can appear to be at different distances. Changes in position such as the Moon overhead looks farther than the Moon on the horizon. Changes in size., changes in color, changes in brightness, changes in background all affect our visual system. Add confusion and the inherent malleability of our memories and the story is probably similar but quite different than what you report today.

 

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lost_shaman
On 9/12/2018 at 5:35 AM, stereologist said:

I don't believe you know that. You're already pretending that  you can determine time durations 2 orders of magnitude faster than a human is able to. It's that kryptonian ability

There are other visual clues that could have tricked you such as the size constancy issue. As objects change their position they can appear to be at different distances. Changes in position such as the Moon overhead looks farther than the Moon on the horizon. Changes in size., changes in color, changes in brightness, changes in background all affect our visual system. Add confusion and the inherent malleability of our memories and the story is probably similar but quite different than what you report today.

Your just full of it!!! It was the same object. It was low to the ground around 5 feet or so, allowing me to see exactly where it was on the Property. After watching this thing traverse the countryside for about 12 minutes, thinking it was a trespasser, it began to rise in altitude above the ground and then it "jumped" straight at my car. To say I don't know that it was the same object is just nonsense you're making up! 

Saying that a person can't tell if an object moves in a fraction of a second is equally ridiculous. For example you can take a laser pointer or any Laser and make the point of light it makes against Trees or buildings, or clouds far off in the distance move hundreds of feet in a fraction of a second and people can easily see this near instantaneous movement of the laser's point of light. What I saw was quite similar, image there was a laser with a three foot diameter and it was aimed at a distant building 700 feet away and then the laser was shifted a fraction of a degree "within a snap of the fingers" to point to the edge of a building only 20 yards or less away. The diameter of that laser's reflection would increase quite a bit because it would suddenly be a lot closer to me than it was a fraction of a second ago. You could easily see that and you could only really describe that by saying the laser's reflection "jumped" from 700 ft away to around 20 yards away almost instantaneously, even though it wasn't instantaneous it took some small fraction of a second for the laser to move.

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ChrLzs

Everything Stereo politely explained is correct.  He's not 'full of it', and frankly, the 3 exclamation marks just make you sound even more petulant and childish.

Yes, you have a memory.  That's it.  Cool story bro.  Progress does not continue with anecdotes and stories.  People do make errors and have false memories, so how about you just toughen up and apply the same level of scrutiny to your own claim as you would to anyone else's.

Especially when that claim involves *nothing* testable or useful or evidenced in any way whatsoever - just what is the point of agonising over remembered 'details' and attacking anyone who questions you?

I've got some cool stories of my own, and others handed down by my family..  But now that I'm all grownsed-up, not only can I think of more ways to adequately explain those stories, I also know that memories can be false or highly exaggerated, and just can't be trusted.  I've got a few provably false 'memories', so I have absolutely no problem if someone questions or rejects anything I say that I can't back up.  You know, that is pretty much how Science and Research works... as it should.

 

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stereologist
14 hours ago, lost_shaman said:

Your just full of it!!! It was the same object. It was low to the ground around 5 feet or so, allowing me to see exactly where it was on the Property. After watching this thing traverse the countryside for about 12 minutes, thinking it was a trespasser, it began to rise in altitude above the ground and then it "jumped" straight at my car. To say I don't know that it was the same object is just nonsense you're making up! 

Saying that a person can't tell if an object moves in a fraction of a second is equally ridiculous. For example you can take a laser pointer or any Laser and make the point of light it makes against Trees or buildings, or clouds far off in the distance move hundreds of feet in a fraction of a second and people can easily see this near instantaneous movement of the laser's point of light. What I saw was quite similar, image there was a laser with a three foot diameter and it was aimed at a distant building 700 feet away and then the laser was shifted a fraction of a degree "within a snap of the fingers" to point to the edge of a building only 20 yards or less away. The diameter of that laser's reflection would increase quite a bit because it would suddenly be a lot closer to me than it was a fraction of a second ago. You could easily see that and you could only really describe that by saying the laser's reflection "jumped" from 700 ft away to around 20 yards away almost instantaneously, even though it wasn't instantaneous it took some small fraction of a second for the laser to move.

It is becoming abundantly clear that you are pretending to have super powers. You don't. It is impossible for you or anyone to determine a duration under a tenth of a second.

There are all sorts of ways people are tricked and your entrenched behavior simply tells me that you don't know what  you saw and you have invented this fantasy to pretend that you were not confused.

The ridiculous person is the person claiming super powers in determining the length of a duration. It is a complete fiction that people can see instantaneous movement. You really need to learn a little about how humans and other animals work. let me help you out of this pit of false beliefs you have placed yourself into.

What we perceive as a seamless experience is a construct built by our brains and is not what is actually detected by the organs. Our brains need to construct a model of the world that allows us to avoid accidents and perform tasks. It takes time for stimuli to travel from our organs to our brains. Yet people can hit a fast moving ball or catch a fast moving ball.  The brain constructs a model of the world that is a predicted model that allows us to function within a world that moves faster than we can sense. Events within 5ms or more are perceived as being simultaneous. It simply is not possible for humans to distinguish the order of visual events below this threshold. 

As we look at human perceptions with time we learn that humans perceive images displayed to them one at a time as a continuous set of images. Yet, they are not. Movies are shown at normally 24 frames per second. That is 1/25 of a second per frame. That is 4 times slower than the 1/100 of a second BS you claiming to perceive. No one sees individual frames. Instead this is perceived as a continuous motion even though it is a set of discrete and separate images.

The idea of "can easily see this near instantaneous movement" is a construct in the brain and wishful thinking on your part. It is not what happens.  Your entire statement is based on fiction and is not based on even a smidgen of understanding of human perception. It is what you want it to be to shore up your distorted tale. Your story is nothing more than a fantasy.

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