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and then

Should hateful speech be illegal?

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and then

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-news-louisiana-teen-not-charged-crash-killed-black-man-20180706-story.html

I saw this tragic story and read through some of the comments.  What this 18-year-old driver did was not illegal.  After a thorough investigation, he was cleared of any negligence in the death of a motorist who'd gotten out to clear debris from the road and was struck by the teen's truck.  The media seems to believe it was an outrage that the teen wasn't found culpable - not for hitting him - but because the punk was a flaming, nasty racist.  The comments the teen and his friends made on Snap Chat make me ill.  It's actually chilling to know how casually some of our young people view the deaths of their fellow citizens.

The really disturbing aspect here is the casual acceptance by some that nasty, mean-spirited people should be held legally liable for their thoughts and attitudes.  In America.  What say you?

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aztek

we already have enough laws.

 

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ChaosRose
Posted (edited)

It's disturbing how little regard he had for the man who died. 

That said, it's not illegal. It's just immoral...and disgusting.

I think things should stay the way they are. 

If you incite violence with your speech, then that's illegal. 

It's not illegal to just be an a*****e.

If, on the other hand, he actually had targeted the guy for any reason...obviously, that would be criminal. 

Or if he didn't try very hard to avoid hitting him for any reason...that would also be criminal.

That's not what they found when they investigated, but I can understand how upsetting it is to people. 

They might even be suspicious of the investigation, in part, because of how outraged they are by the comments. 

The comments don't make him a murderer, though, but there will be consequences (albeit not legal ones) to the world finding out that he's such a jerk.

Edited by ChaosRose
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aztek

we will be one day, but it will get a lot worst before it gets better

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ChaosRose
1 minute ago, Taun said:

Making "hate speech" illegal is a very slippery slope... First off, who decides what is "hate speech" and what is just stupid? We have enough problems these days with people being branded "Fascist", "A Nazi", "Sexist", "Bigoted", "Racist"... ad nauseum just  for disagreeing with people, or having different political opinions..

We need to get back to being a more civil society before it all erupts into massive, bloody chaos...

Some people are fascist, Nazi, sexist, bigoted and racist.

And it should also be alright to say so. 

Unless people are using speech to accuse people of crimes they haven't committed, or they're using speech to call for physical harm, or they're using it to create a panic where people might get injured (yelling fire in a crowded theater), then this is America and we can say pretty much whatever we want. 

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Liquid Gardens
21 minutes ago, and then said:

 The media seems to believe it was an outrage that the teen wasn't found culpable - not for hitting him - but because the punk was a flaming, nasty racist. 

Which 'media' seems to believe that?  I didn't see anything like that in the article. 

It did seem odd that they didn't perform a toxicology report on the driver, if that fact is true.  I think in my state if you kill someone on the road the toxicology test is pretty much automatic maybe by law, but not sure.

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ChaosRose
Posted (edited)

What I find interesting is that people were "outraged" about folks not liking Melania's Christmas decorations and having the nerve to say so

and they're all up in arms over the giant baby Trump balloon...we should all have respect or something like that.

But it's ever so important to uphold the free expression of the kid who used the N word to describe someone he just ran over and killed. 

When the shoe is on the other foot, the other side sure can get snowflakey in a big hurry. 

But they can't understand for the life of them why people might be upset by this...and maybe even think a kid who has such little regard for the life of this man...might not have tried too hard to avoid him. 

How could you prove that, really? You might not be able to. 

You can only prosecute what you can prove, and that's the way it should be.

I just actually do understand their outrage that involves a person who has been run over by a truck.

I don't understand the Christmas decoration and baby balloon outrage so much. 

Edited by ChaosRose
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RabidMongoose
54 minutes ago, and then said:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-news-louisiana-teen-not-charged-crash-killed-black-man-20180706-story.html

I saw this tragic story and read through some of the comments.  What this 18-year-old driver did was not illegal.  After a thorough investigation, he was cleared of any negligence in the death of a motorist who'd gotten out to clear debris from the road and was struck by the teen's truck.  The media seems to believe it was an outrage that the teen wasn't found culpable - not for hitting him - but because the punk was a flaming, nasty racist.  The comments the teen and his friends made on Snap Chat make me ill.  It's actually chilling to know how casually some of our young people view the deaths of their fellow citizens.

The really disturbing aspect here is the casual acceptance by some that nasty, mean-spirited people should be held legally liable for their thoughts and attitudes.  In America.  What say you?

You should be able to say whatever you want.

And I would say incitement to violence is a load of tosh too because adults make their own decisions.

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and then
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ChaosRose said:

Some people are fascist, Nazi, sexist, bigoted and racist.

And it should also be alright to say so. 

Unless people are using speech to accuse people of crimes they haven't committed, or they're using speech to call for physical harm, or they're using it to create a panic where people might get injured (yelling fire in a crowded theater), then this is America and we can say pretty much whatever we want. 

I think it is perfectly reasonable for people to make personal determinations about the morality of others based on evidence.  My only caveat is that such judgments shouldn't be put out by media types.  The opinion of a few can be greatly magnified and become unfairly destructive.  

ETA - I totally agree that the reactions of he and his friends was just... God, it was stark, chilling how uncaring they were.  It makes me worry about our future.

Edited by and then
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and then
1 hour ago, ChaosRose said:

But it's ever so important to uphold the free expression of the kid who used the N word to describe someone he just ran over and killed. 

I can understand how that aspect of the story might be mistaken from the way I phrased it.  My desire wasn't to discuss "freedom of speech" necessarily.  I'm just talking about the idea that we seem to be moving toward a mob-rule, lynching sort of mentality again.  There is no way to know what was going through this man's mind unless he admits it to a few of his best friends on FB.  We do have to go by the evidence.  If we begin deciding motives based on speech and opinions then we're only a step away from vigilantism.  I think this young man should be shunned for his racism.  Maybe a day will come when he matures enough to realize that hate solves nothing.  Until then it would be worse to go down the road of legally sanctioning hateful people who do not break laws.

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and then
1 hour ago, RabidMongoose said:

And I would say incitement to violence is a load of tosh too because adults make their own decisions.

On this part of your response, I disagree.  Human beings are quite capable of being roused into mobs and some people are very good at doing just that.  Individually, yes, they are all responsible for their actions but mobs don't take time to process, they ACT.  Someone that sets that in motion, intentionally, should be liable for the consequences.

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Dejarma

People should be allowed to say what they want & be as offensive as they want... We can then all see a person's true colours & act accordingly.

Everyone now knows the idiot Matthew Martin's true colours

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RabidMongoose
1 hour ago, and then said:

On this part of your response, I disagree.  Human beings are quite capable of being roused into mobs and some people are very good at doing just that.  Individually, yes, they are all responsible for their actions but mobs don't take time to process, they ACT.  Someone that sets that in motion, intentionally, should be liable for the consequences.

My position is that adults are expected to take personal responsibility for their own actions and behaviour.

If they cannot say no, or decline a course of action because its illegal, then its their own fault.

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Agent0range
1 hour ago, Dejarma said:

People should be allowed to say what they want & be as offensive as they want... We can then all see a person's true colours & act accordingly.

Everyone now knows the idiot Matthew Martin's true colours

I agree.  It's nice to know who the scum actually are.  We are in a time where they will be fired from their jobs, and have their lives in near ruin, as so they deserve.  Let the scum speak out, and let them get what they deserve.

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ChaosRose
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, and then said:

I can understand how that aspect of the story might be mistaken from the way I phrased it.  My desire wasn't to discuss "freedom of speech" necessarily.  I'm just talking about the idea that we seem to be moving toward a mob-rule, lynching sort of mentality again.  There is no way to know what was going through this man's mind unless he admits it to a few of his best friends on FB.  We do have to go by the evidence.  If we begin deciding motives based on speech and opinions then we're only a step away from vigilantism.  I think this young man should be shunned for his racism.  Maybe a day will come when he matures enough to realize that hate solves nothing.  Until then it would be worse to go down the road of legally sanctioning hateful people who do not break laws.

I agree that we can't just have a culture of vigilantism. 

There has to be evidence that he did something wrong, and there just isn't. 

So as much as people are outraged that a man died and that this guy is being callous about it, he hasn't done anything that anyone can prove is illegal. 

Edited by ChaosRose
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Paranormal Panther

It should be legal. Speech, that is not popular, is in most need of protection. Censoring and silencing speech is dangerous to all citizens who love liberty. This holds true for all Americans, from commies to Nazis.

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Paranormal Panther
3 hours ago, and then said:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-news-louisiana-teen-not-charged-crash-killed-black-man-20180706-story.html

I saw this tragic story and read through some of the comments.  What this 18-year-old driver did was not illegal.  After a thorough investigation, he was cleared of any negligence in the death of a motorist who'd gotten out to clear debris from the road and was struck by the teen's truck.  The media seems to believe it was an outrage that the teen wasn't found culpable - not for hitting him - but because the punk was a flaming, nasty racist.  The comments the teen and his friends made on Snap Chat make me ill.  It's actually chilling to know how casually some of our young people view the deaths of their fellow citizens.

The really disturbing aspect here is the casual acceptance by some that nasty, mean-spirited people should be held legally liable for their thoughts and attitudes.  In America.  What say you?

My previous post was general, but this post will be more specific. I think that demonic individuals should be confronted morally and verbally in a nonviolent way when they cross the boundaries of sound behavior. Your story really brings up some dark, deep phenomena that is found in all parts of society, not just in the political realm. Certain moral lines are increasingly trespassed in ways that make one wonder if millions of people really do believe that nothing is sacred.

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thedutchiedutch
7 hours ago, and then said:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-news-louisiana-teen-not-charged-crash-killed-black-man-20180706-story.html

I saw this tragic story and read through some of the comments.  What this 18-year-old driver did was not illegal.  After a thorough investigation, he was cleared of any negligence in the death of a motorist who'd gotten out to clear debris from the road and was struck by the teen's truck.  The media seems to believe it was an outrage that the teen wasn't found culpable - not for hitting him - but because the punk was a flaming, nasty racist.  The comments the teen and his friends made on Snap Chat make me ill.  It's actually chilling to know how casually some of our young people view the deaths of their fellow citizens.

The really disturbing aspect here is the casual acceptance by some that nasty, mean-spirited people should be held legally liable for their thoughts and attitudes.  In America.  What say you?

Very sad story and how cold is this 18 year old, Very disturbing indeed. And although nothing he did or said was illegal I would not be surprised or shocked or even feel sorry for him if karma rears its ugly head. 

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WhereWeLiveNow

Isn't "hate speech" banned in the UK?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_the_United_Kingdom

I believe no one should ban "hate speech". Once you start banning any speech it becomes a slippery slope as another user posted.  The speech you do not like could one day be the acceptable speech and vice versa.

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Tatetopa

Riding through Texas in a pickup with either of my two uncles 50 years ago, I would have heard similar sentiments and conversation.  Maybe things aren't great, but I think things might be slightly improved. Not enough, but slightly.  We are going to have to have some uncomfortable conversations among ourselves before things get better.  It doesn't have to devolve into violence, the chances are better that it won't if we talk to each other.  I am sure my comments frustrate you sometimes and you just can't believe anyone could be so misguided.  Well guess what, I think the same things sometimes.  But at least we are still talking, and I do think about what you say. We may not agree but somewhere between respect and tolerance, we can coexist and maybe come together on big issues.  Thanks for the thread.

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Imaginarynumber1
Posted (edited)

nevermmind

Edited by Imaginarynumber1
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CrimsonKing
15 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

Morality is a joke. We all end up the same rotten flesh bags. 

Agreed..."morality" changes through time and cultures...meh

Your job has always given you a bit of a "unique" perspective here on UM...I may not always agree with ya,but i do respect your insight on certain topics...even if i don't join in on the conversations ;)

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Imaginarynumber1
44 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

Agreed..."morality" changes through time and cultures...meh

Your job has always given you a bit of a "unique" perspective here on UM...I may not always agree with ya,but i do respect your insight on certain topics...even if i don't join in on the conversations ;)

It's made me even more bitter and cynical, if I'm being honest. 

The things I see on a nightly basis are ridiculous. What people do to one another...

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CrimsonKing
Just now, Imaginarynumber1 said:

It's made me even more bitter and cynical, if I'm being honest. 

The things I see on a nightly basis are ridiculous. What people do to one another...

I hear ya dude...i don't envy your job and honestly don't know what you make,but in my opinion you are probably grossly underpaid,even if you make decent money :hmm:

Hell i can be a bit of a cynical ass hole,and i've seen "gruesome"...but i couldn't do your job...honestly couldn't...

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