Should hateful speech be illegal?

[Bama13]

On 7/6/2018 at 5:24 PM, and then said:

I think it is perfectly reasonable for people to make personal determinations about the morality of others based on evidence.  My only caveat is that such judgments shouldn't be put out by media types.  The opinion of a few can be greatly magnified and become unfairly destructive.  

ETA - I totally agree that the reactions of he and his friends was just... God, it was stark, chilling how uncaring they were.  It makes me worry about our future.

Wasn't it last summer where some teens watched another person drown and just recorded it and made snide comments?

[Paranormal Panther]

On 7/10/2018 at 3:18 PM, Bama13 said:

Wasn't it last summer where some teens watched another person drown and just recorded it and made snide comments?

I saw a clip of that, and it was surreal! They let a challenged person drown in front of them, and they laughed as he struggled. It probably was a reflection of the lack of compassion and decency found in exchanges on the internet, some of which can be classified as sadistic and satanic with no exaggeration in said descriptions. I've read comments that celebrated the horrid deaths of people's loved ones, and I've read statements that wished horrid deaths on other people just for disagreeing on something minor.

[Farmer77]

While I am hesitant I would definitely say making hate speech illegal is definitely a conversation we should be having.  

What benefits and potential benefits does hate speech bring our society vs what negatives and potential negatives? 

 

[+and-then]

I considered starting another thread for this one.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-viral-video-hate-crime-charge-forest-preserve-20180712-story.html

A drunk, white guy in Chicago verbally abused a woman wearing a T-Shirt that said PUERTO RICO and he has been charged with a FELONY hate crime.  3-5 years potentially imprisoned because he stated his opinion in an insulting way.  He didn't lay hands on this woman.  He didn't threaten physical harm.  The guy was a stupid jerk to accost a stranger over her clothing choice but really?  a HATE CRIME?  A FELONY?  This is outrageous.

[Farmer77]

12 minutes ago, and then said:

a HATE CRIME?  A FELONY?  This is outrageous.

Why is it outrageous though? If I or someone like minded had been there that situation would have escalated extremely quickly. The man's hateful behavior makes him a risk to himself and bystanders as well as his intended target. 

Hope this prick gets to room with lots of folks named Irizarry and Rivera for the next 3-5

[Gromdor]

1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

Why is it outrageous though? If I or someone like minded had been there that situation would have escalated extremely quickly. The man's hateful behavior makes him a risk to himself and bystanders as well as his intended target. 

Hope this prick gets to room with lots of folks named Irizarry and Rivera for the next 3-5

He'll hook up with the Aryan Brotherhood.  They outnumber MS-13 2:1 and are responsible for 1 out of every 4 murders in prison.  He's their kind of guy.

[Myles]

4 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Why is it outrageous though? If I or someone like minded had been there that situation would COULD have escalated extremely quickly. The man's hateful behavior makes him a risk to himself and bystanders as well as his intended target. 

Hope this prick gets to room with lots of folks named Irizarry and Rivera for the next 3-5

It could have escalated quickly.

 I'm against most "hate crime" convictions at this time.   Hate crimes are not defined well and are influenced by the media too much.  

[preacherman76]

12 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Why is it outrageous though? If I or someone like minded had been there that situation would have escalated extremely quickly. The man's hateful behavior makes him a risk to himself and bystanders as well as his intended target. 

Hope this prick gets to room with lots of folks named Irizarry and Rivera for the next 3-5

Locking someone in a cage, for years no less, because they hurt someone else's feelings is just insane. Plus this would have never happened if he was saying mean things to another white guy, even though the results would have been exactly the same, hurt feelings. Big deal. Suck it up.

[Big Jim]

We can't possibly build enough jails to make hate speech illegal.  Besides, who get's to decide what is hateful, the party in power?  How hateful is criminal, rather than just annoying or offensive?  Speech takes on different meaning in different contexts and between different people.  Would it matter if the offending words were spoken in public or private?  Rank also matters.  The boss can say things that would get an employee fired.  Should it now get them jailed?  Better to have free speech and thicker skins.

[CrimsonKing]

13 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Why is it outrageous though? If I or someone like minded had been there that situation would have escalated extremely quickly. The man's hateful behavior makes him a risk to himself and bystanders as well as his intended target. 

Hope this prick gets to room with lots of folks named Irizarry and Rivera for the next 3-5

Come on bro...you serious?

I don't even know what to say... 

Didn't we used to agree on government overreach...

I mean seriously,in todays world a person can be accused of ANYTHING and arrested and booked in turn costing said person hundreds to thousands in bail,court fees,ect. and eventually proven completely innocent...yet all those "fees" can never be returned...

So now words are just cause for prison sentences?...

Remember when we used to agree on "prison for profit"?

Sometimes i feel as if you are trolling anymore or someone stole your account lol

[Gromdor]

6 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

Come on bro...you serious?

I don't even know what to say... 

Didn't we used to agree on government overreach...

I mean seriously,in todays world a person can be accused of ANYTHING and arrested and booked in turn costing said person hundreds to thousands in bail,court fees,ect. and eventually proven completely innocent...yet all those "fees" can never be returned...

So now words are just cause for prison sentences?...

Remember when we used to agree on "prison for profit"?

Sometimes i feel as if you are trolling anymore or someone stole your account lol

I agree that hateful speech shouldn't be illegal.  In the case we are talking about though, he isn't getting felony hate crimes because of free speech but because of upgraded assault charge and disorderly conduct charges.  I'm guessing that sometime during that 36 minute tirade of his, he ended up putting his hands on someone.

[Kismit]

13 hours ago, and then said:

I considered starting another thread for this one.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-viral-video-hate-crime-charge-forest-preserve-20180712-story.html

A drunk, white guy in Chicago verbally abused a woman wearing a T-Shirt that said PUERTO RICO and he has been charged with a FELONY hate crime.  3-5 years potentially imprisoned because he stated his opinion in an insulting way.  He didn't lay hands on this woman.  He didn't threaten physical harm.  The guy was a stupid jerk to accost a stranger over her clothing choice but really?  a HATE CRIME?  A FELONY?  This is outrageous.

I have seen this video.  The young lady had hired the area for a picnic.  And was followed and abused for a lengthy amount of time.  Her only crime was to wear a t-shirt with the Puerto Rican flag on it. I think we can all agree the man was ignorant, abusive, persistent, under the influence of alcohol and unpredictable, which is quite intimidating. 

What charges do you think would have been more suitable?

[CrimsonKing]

6 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

I agree that hateful speech shouldn't be illegal.  In the case we are talking about though, he isn't getting felony hate crimes because of free speech but because of upgraded assault charge and disorderly conduct charges.  I'm guessing that sometime during that 36 minute tirade of his, he ended up putting his hands on someone.

If he assaulted someone while ranting slurs i can see him spending some time,it would still need to be more than a finger poke or something along those lines...

[Gromdor]

1 minute ago, CrimsonKing said:

If he assaulted someone while ranting slurs i can see him spending some time,it would still need to be more than a finger poke or something along those lines...

Uh, no.  Trust me a finger poke is all it takes for assault charges.

[CrimsonKing]

2 minutes ago, Kismit said:

I have seen this video.  The young lady had hired the area for a picnic.  And was followed and abused for a lengthy amount of time.  Her only crime was to wear a t-shirt with the Puerto Rican flag on it. I think we can all agree the man was ignorant, abusive, persistent, under the influence of alcohol and unpredictable, which is quite intimidating. 

What charges do you think would have been more suitable?

If he got physical (throwing punches ect) for no reason and injuring said person several months in the County,a fine,probation and whatever civil court costs that might/would be coming...

[CrimsonKing]

2 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Uh, no.  Trust me a finger poke is all it takes for assault charges.

Oh trust me,i know...as i said in a previous thread,spitting on someone is "assault"...my point being there is different levels of "assault"

[Kismit]

5 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

If he got physical (throwing punches ect) for no reason and injuring said person several months in the County,a fine,probation and whatever civil court costs that might/would be coming...

So under what charges would he be arrested, given that there does not appear to be a, disturbing the peace law in America?

Here a police officer would have arrested him for disturbing the peace,  simply to remove him from the situation,  perhaps public intoxication or nuisance charges, assault if he had of been abusive and physically touched or thrown something.  And his sentence would reflect if he had a history of abuse.

[Gromdor]

2 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

If he got physical (throwing punches ect) for no reason and injuring said person several months in the County,a fine,probation and whatever civil court costs that might/would be coming...

That would be Battery.  An even worse crime. 

 

2 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

Oh trust me,i know...as i said in a previous thread,spitting on someone is "assault"...my point being there is different levels of "assault"

Yup, and this poor fool committed the one with the hate crime upgrade.

 

[CrimsonKing]

@Kismit @Gromdor

Do we have a report on what kind of "assault" happened?

It could be chalked up to "menacing" yes that is a charge,but usually doesn't carry a 3-5 prison sentence...

[+and-then]

20 minutes ago, Kismit said:

I have seen this video.  The young lady had hired the area for a picnic.  And was followed and abused for a lengthy amount of time.  Her only crime was to wear a t-shirt with the Puerto Rican flag on it. I think we can all agree the man was ignorant, abusive, persistent, under the influence of alcohol and unpredictable, which is quite intimidating. 

What charges do you think would have been more suitable?

Exactly what he was originally charged with, Kismit.  Assault and disorderly conduct.  He shouldn't have made an ass of himself and behaved as he did toward a stranger and when he got in her face like that in public, that's assault.  To add a felony charge that serves no purpose but to punish him for his views, however stupid they may be, is a whole new level of tyrannical in a free country.  It will lead to bad places, guaranteed.

[Gromdor]

6 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

@Kismit @Gromdor

Do we have a report on what kind of "assault" happened?

It could be chalked up to "menacing" yes that is a charge,but usually doesn't carry a 3-5 prison sentence...

Nah, the article was too vague.

[+and-then]

11 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

That would be Battery.  An even worse crime. 

Which is never mentioned or seen in the video.  The prosecutor from Obamaland tagged him with thought-crime, pure and simple.  We rarely agree Gromdor but even a good Leftist should see the dangers inherent in this one.  WHO decides what hate is?

[CrimsonKing]

Just now, Gromdor said:

Nah, the article was too vague.

That's why i try not to get into "heated" arguments here on UM...90% of EVERYTHING is vague lol

[Gromdor]

1 minute ago, and then said:

Exactly what he was originally charged with, Kismit.  Assault and disorderly conduct.  He shouldn't have made an ass of himself and behaved as he did toward a stranger and when he got in her face like that in public, that's assault.  To add a felony charge that serves no purpose but to punish him for his views, however stupid they may be, is a whole new level of tyrannical in a free country.  It will lead to bad places, guaranteed.

Eh true, the main reason I think the whole unmasking Anti-fa bill on the other thread is flawed.  We are basically writing laws that tack on to existing ones that can be miss used for ill.

[Kismit]

9 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

@Kismit @Gromdor

Do we have a report on what kind of "assault" happened?

It could be chalked up to "menacing" yes that is a charge,but usually doesn't carry a 3-5 prison sentence...

I'm not saying he should be charged with hate speech or assault.  I am just interested in what charges people think he should have been given.