Should hateful speech be illegal?

[Big Jim]

10 minutes ago, Myles said:

When Kaep wore socks with pigs in police uniforms, I suppose it would/should be considered hateful act.   However, I would not want him arrested for it.  

I was thinking specifically about aggressive acts, as compared to aggressive speech.  Flipping someone off may be considered offensive, even hateful, but no one is going to get hurt.  The one who responds by punching them in the nose is who the law should be concerned with.  I don't think the law should ever be concerned with someone's choice of socks or any other garments for that matter.  

[Paranormal Panther]

11 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Actually at the end of it all depending on the individuals involved the permanent changes in the brain could be identical after either incident (well I guess I do concede the kind of incident we're discussing goes beyond a single cutting comment) 

Personally I was surprised when I found that out and my position has evolved thusly

I don't think so. A brain injury, that makes one comatose, is much more serious. Along the same lines, getting shot or stabbed is worse than getting slapped or smacked. Are you trolling us, man?

[Kismit]

1 minute ago, Paranormal Panther said:

I don't think so. A brain injury, that makes one comatose, is much more serious. Along the same lines, getting shot or stabbed is worse than getting slapped or smacked. Are you trolling us, man?

I think he is talking about the psychological damage of verbal and mental abuse. Which is much much harder for people to overcome than bruises.

Psychology Today

My Mother suffered mental,  physical and emotional abuse for the 17 years she was married to my Father.  I  can with complete honesty say that she did not recover from the belittling, and constant insults, the attacks on her intelligence or the constant questioning of her decisions. However the bruises burns and broken bones where rarely ever mentioned. 

[Paranormal Panther]

7 minutes ago, Kismit said:

I think he is talking about the psychological damage of verbal and mental abuse. Which is much much harder for people to overcome than bruises.

Psychology Today

My Mother suffered mental,  physical and emotional abuse for the 17 years she was married to my Father.  I  can with complete honesty say that she did not recover from the belittling, and constant insults, the attacks on her intelligence or the constant questioning of her decisions. However the bruises burns and broken bones where rarely ever mentioned. 

I get that. My point is that emotional pain is preferable to vegetative states.

[Kismit]

2 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

I get that. My point is that emotional pain is preferable to vegetative states.

Anything is preferred to a vegetative state. 

But in the context of the discussion on hate speech, a coma is an extreme result of assault. 

The problem with verbal aggression is that it is very difficult for a victim to prove or show damage, twisting them up further, and yet that damage exists. 

[-Nuke-]

Without freedom of speech, eminem wouldn't be around and I probably would be killed off somewhere. 

[Myles]

13 hours ago, Kismit said:

 

But in the context of the discussion on hate speech, a coma is an extreme result of assault. 

 

I think psychological damage is also an extreme result.   I don't think people are referring to constant verbal abuse in this thread.   I would agree that harassment of that kind should be illegal.   However, wearing pig socks, calling someone a nazi or using the "N" word should not be illegal on its own.  

[Myles]

Now this should be illegal.

I'm glad she wasn't seriously injured, but come on, she purposely navigated through the gates.   She should be responsible for the costs of the responders who helped her. 

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/07/17/video-shows-woman-on-bike-fall-into-gap-on-wisconsin-bridge.html

[Bama13]

On 7/14/2018 at 8:38 PM, Dejarma said:

that's the problem right there!= the fact that people cause damage via words.

having said that; how would you or anyone else react to someone (no physical contact) screaming in your face for 5/10 minutes?

the rational response would be to knock em out 'before' it gets violent= the screaming imo would imply a possible violent resolve from the screamer

When did we stop teaching our children that "Sticks and stones may break my bones but word will never hurt me"? We need to start back. No one saying things or screaming things at me has ever hurt me, except maybe my feelings. Is hurting someone's feelings a crime now. Jeez we should all be locked up if that is the case because I'm sure we have all offended someone at some point in out lives.

 

The rational response is to walk away or simply ignore them.

[Dejarma]

45 minutes ago, Bama13 said:

The rational response is to walk away or simply ignore them.

Not so rational if you <honestly feel> you'll get hit from behind... anyone would walk away if they felt comfortable doing so! IMO you also seem to be missing the point regarding the circumstances you quoted 

Edited July 17, 2018 by Dejarma

[Bama13]

11 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

Not so rational if you <honestly feel> you'll get hit from behind... anyone would walk away if they felt comfortable doing so! IMO you also seem to be missing the point regarding the circumstances you quoted 

Ok, so back away a few steps then turn and walk away.

If you do get hit then the other person has actually committed a crime and can be arrested. Plus, if you so desire, you can now "knock'em out" and claim self defense.

To "knock'em out" for just yelling at you is a crime, just yelling at you isn't/shouldn't be a crime.

[Dejarma]

1 minute ago, Bama13 said:

Ok, so back away a few steps then turn and walk away.

If you do get hit then the other person has actually committed a crime and can be arrested. Plus, if you so desire, you can now "knock'em out" and claim self defense.

To "knock'em out" for just yelling at you is a crime, just yelling at you isn't/shouldn't be a crime.

well that's ok then= the person that has just knifed me in the back or smashed my head in because i didn't 'back away far enough' will get arrested (i they catch him/her)== oh joy- that will make me feel a lot better while fighting for my life in hospital

thanks for the advice mate

[Bama13]

11 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

well that's ok then= the person that has just knifed me in the back or smashed my head in because i didn't 'back away far enough' will get arrested (i they catch him/her)== oh joy- that will make me feel a lot better while fighting for my life in hospital

thanks for the advice mate

So instead of walking away you punch the person, then they pull out a gun and shoot you, or pull a knife and stab you. Now they can claim self defense and after you get out of the hospital you can go right to the pokey for assault.

Yeah, your way is much better mate.

Silly hypothetical's are just that, silly. I have walked away from many encounters and never been stabbed, shot, or bludgeoned. 

[Dejarma]

4 minutes ago, Bama13 said:

So instead of walking away you punch the person, then they pull out a gun and shoot you, or pull a knife and stab you. Now they can claim self defense and after you get out of the hospital you can go right to the pokey for assault.

Yeah, your way is much better mate.

Silly hypothetical's are just that, silly. I have walked away from many encounters and never been stabbed, shot, or bludgeoned. 

fair enough

[Paranormal Panther]

5 hours ago, Bama13 said:

Ok, so back away a few steps then turn and walk away.

If you do get hit then the other person has actually committed a crime and can be arrested. Plus, if you so desire, you can now "knock'em out" and claim self defense.

To "knock'em out" for just yelling at you is a crime, just yelling at you isn't/shouldn't be a crime.

I think that he's trolling you. At least, I hope he is! 

[-Nuke-]

Words can't kill, they can just be a prerequisite of death. But freedom of speech is a great thing... I don't think you can nitpick exactly what people can say or not. It's in music, politics, ect. If someone chooses to say something that gets them killed or physically harmed, it was their decision to do that.

[Myles]

Hateful speech doesn't stop you from being hired at the NY Times.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/08/02/new-york-times-hypocrites-knowingly-hire-racist-writer-who-wants-to-cancelwhitepeople.html

 

As you can see, this wasn’t just a one-off mistake. There are around a dozen tweets and retweets from the millennial where she admits how much she hates white people, writing things like: “Dumbass f------ white people marking up the internet with their opinions like dogs p***ing on fire hydrants” and “Oh man, it’s kind of sick how much joy I get out of being cruel to old white men.”

Besides comparing white people to “dogs p***ing on fire hydrants,” she also called them “groveling goblins,” and claimed it was her “plan” that white people go “extinct.”

[Kismit]

25 minutes ago, Myles said:

Hateful speech doesn't stop you from being hired at the NY Times.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/08/02/new-york-times-hypocrites-knowingly-hire-racist-writer-who-wants-to-cancelwhitepeople.html

 

As you can see, this wasn’t just a one-off mistake. There are around a dozen tweets and retweets from the millennial where she admits how much she hates white people, writing things like: “Dumbass f------ white people marking up the internet with their opinions like dogs p***ing on fire hydrants” and “Oh man, it’s kind of sick how much joy I get out of being cruel to old white men.”

Besides comparing white people to “dogs p***ing on fire hydrants,” she also called them “groveling goblins,” and claimed it was her “plan” that white people go “extinct.”

According to the story she was imitating racist responses aimed at her. It is a pity you don't get the full twitter exchange to be able to compare.

[Myles]

8 minutes ago, Kismit said:

According to the story she was imitating racist responses aimed at her. It is a pity you don't get the full twitter exchange to be able to compare.

She claims that she was "only imitating her harassers" WAY after the fact when she was caught.

Everyone is "sorry" for getting caught, its easy to claim ignorance after the fact.

 

Even if that is true, replace "white" with "black" in those texted and the person would not be hired.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Myles

[Kismit]

1 minute ago, Myles said:

Even if that is true, replace "white" with "black" in those texted and the person would not be hired.

It is a matter of context.

How often does a white person find themselves having to relate to racism in this manner?  

I know that racism does exist towards white people, I have experienced it, and it was nothing more than ignorance on the part of the perpetrator. However I see ignorance aimed at minorities, daily. It is in the mainstream media, certainly on social media and tirelessly worked into the accounts of some people with YouTube fame.

As I said it is a shame that we are not privy to the full twitter exchange. 

[Myles]

1 minute ago, Kismit said:

I know that racism does exist towards white people, I have experienced it, and it was nothing more than ignorance on the part of the perpetrator. However I see ignorance aimed at minorities, daily. It is in the mainstream media, certainly on social media and tirelessly worked into the accounts of some people with YouTube fame.

 

I see much more racism aimed at white people in the main stream media.    But that is mostly their opinion pieces.    Racism is horrible and exists in many forms.   I don't think it helps at all to  disregard racism towards certain people.   Let's stomp it all out. 

[lost_shaman]

White people have been called racists (mostly wrongly) my entire life. You'd think if the people claiming this and think it is so horrible that they would strive to quash racism in all forms rather than now embrace it themselves. 

[Myles]

7 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

White people have been called racists (mostly wrongly) my entire life. You'd think if the people claiming this and think it is so horrible that they would strive to quash racism in all forms rather than now embrace it themselves. 

From my experience, I'm not so sure it was "mostly wrongly".  But I think it goes both ways and I think almost everyone is racist to a point.   Not racist enough to put it to any type of practice though.  You just cannot put it in words or actions.   That is wrong.    

[lost_shaman]

16 minutes ago, Myles said:

From my experience, I'm not so sure it was "mostly wrongly".

Well I'm white and have tons of white friends and Family and I can't name a single one that I'd say is a racist.

[Paranormal Panther]

1 hour ago, lost_shaman said:

White people have been called racists (mostly wrongly) my entire life. You'd think if the people claiming this and think it is so horrible that they would strive to quash racism in all forms rather than now embrace it themselves. 

They think of it as revenge for things that you never did and that they never suffered. I paid reparations to myself because I enslaved myself before the Civil War.