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Black Granite Sarcophagus Discovered in Egypt


The Caspian Hare

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9 minutes ago, Stiff said:

Eewwww!! That's just nasty! I wonder if they really did just pour it out on the street. Doesn't sound like a smart thing to do if they don't know what it consists of. Could spread disease. This tomb was special for some reason to the people who put it there. I don't think they thought they had an extra 30 ton sarcophagus to fill and just decided to throw these guys in it. I hope they're related to each other in some way! 

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21 hours ago, susieice said:

http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/funerary_practices/funerary_objects.htm

From link:

Reserve heads

reserve head of nofer    Life sized sculptures of the heads on necks (but without shoulders) of noble men and women found in Old Kingdom mastabas at Giza, Abusir and Dahshur are referred to as reserve heads but could perhaps more aptly be termed magical heads.[48]

Reserve head of Nofer
Giza, 4th dynasty
Courtesy Simon Hayter [1]

    Under Snofru reserve heads carved from limestone began to replace funerary statues [51] and during the 4th and 5th dynasties,[49] above all during the reigns of Khufu and Khafre,[48] they were placed in the burial chambers of tombs and not in the serdab, where the funerary statue of the tomb owner had been erected. They were seemingly naturalistic portraits probably destined to perpetuate the features of the deceased, as did the mummy masks later on. They were possibly created with the help of plaster casts made of the face of the portrayed person.[47] 
    Much about the function of the reserve heads is still unclear. They were apparently used in ceremonies to magically cleanse the deceased from all evil; and the fact that many of them do not have any ears may be a reminder that the necropolis is a place of silence.[48] It has also been suggested that, just as grave figurines of dangerous animals were purposefully damaged to prevent them from endangering the deceased, reserve heads symbolized the decapitation of the deceased to protect the living from them.[67]

 

All they found was a bust which was made of alabaster, indicating possible high social standing. This is giving me the creeps! Were they decapitated and that's why the skulls are separated from the bodies or did they just fall off over time?

Decapitation of the deceased to protect the living from them? Creepy. Am I the only one that is wondering why all the zombie preparedness? I've heard of the past diseases that caused people to dance in the streets until they died and I'm not so sure it's a medical impossibility. I wouldn't be poking around in ruins where the head of the dead needed to be decapitated to protect the living. Wtf  

 

Also I read about this somewhere else thought they were Roman. The Egyptian thing threw me off doesn't fit the timeframe does it?

Edited by Nnicolette
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20 minutes ago, NicoletteS said:

Decapitation of the deceased to protect the living from them? Creepy. Am I the only one that is wondering why all the zombie preparedness? I've heard of the past diseases that caused people to dance in the streets until they died and I'm not so sure it's a medical impossibility. I wouldn't be poking around in ruins where the head of the dead needed to be decapitated to protect the living. Wtf  

 

I don't think you need to worry about zombies.   It's just the current phase.   Like vampires were a few years ago.  

 

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34 minutes ago, NicoletteS said:

Decapitation of the deceased to protect the living from them? Creepy. Am I the only one that is wondering why all the zombie preparedness? I've heard of the past diseases that caused people to dance in the streets until they died and I'm not so sure it's a medical impossibility. I wouldn't be poking around in ruins where the head of the dead needed to be decapitated to protect the living. Wtf  

 

Also I read about this somewhere else thought they were Roman. The Egyptian thing threw me off doesn't fit the timeframe does it?

If it's Ptolemaic, yes. Before the Roman conquest. Greek Pharaohs that ruled as Egyptians after the conquest by Alexander the Great. Cleopatra was the last of them.

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11 minutes ago, Myles said:

I don't think you need to worry about zombies.   It's just the current phase.   Like vampires were a few years ago.  

 

I don't believe in curses but this burial is strange.

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16 minutes ago, susieice said:

I don't believe in curses but this burial is strange.

I agree.    I'm going to stick with my guess at this point.

My current guess is that these guys got caught doing something extremely bad.   They killed them and put them in this box to make an example of them.   Never being able to escape even after they died.   Kind of a shield to stop them from reaching an after-life. 

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7 minutes ago, Myles said:

I agree.    I'm going to stick with my guess at this point.

My current guess is that these guys got caught doing something extremely bad.   They killed them and put them in this box to make an example of them.   Never being able to escape even after they died.   Kind of a shield to stop them from reaching an after-life. 

Yes. This particular grave appears to have been isolated for some reason. There's no such thing as the Hom Dai. That's Hollywood. I also don't think priests cursed the mummies of people they didn't like. They would have followed legal and religious practices that were in place during the reign of the Ptolemies. This burial does seem to be a punishment of some sort. I have to stick with that guess also and hope the Egyptian Antiquities people give an accurate and correct analysis of what they found.

I thought maybe they were given a burial to exalt them, but the lack of any funerary goods or identifications seems to rule that out.

Edited by susieice
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I keep coming back to this. The Egyptians would remove names from monuments to attempt to erase the person from memory. They did it to Akhenaten and to Queen Hatshepsut. Black granite and alabaster weren't cheap. So somebody had means. And there is no engraving of names. Could that be because their names were intended to be forgotten? Even the Greeks and Romans memorialized their dead by putting their names with the body.

I had previously thought there had been mention of some hieroglyphics, but hearing now that there weren't any. Nada.

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6 hours ago, Myles said:

I agree.    I'm going to stick with my guess at this point.

My current guess is that these guys got caught doing something extremely bad.   They killed them and put them in this box to make an example of them.   Never being able to escape even after they died.   Kind of a shield to stop them from reaching an after-life. 

If so then why the bust?   

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11 hours ago, susieice said:

I keep coming back to this. The Egyptians would remove names from monuments to attempt to erase the person from memory. They did it to Akhenaten and to Queen Hatshepsut. Black granite and alabaster weren't cheap. So somebody had means. And there is no engraving of names. Could that be because their names were intended to be forgotten? Even the Greeks and Romans memorialized their dead by putting their names with the body.

I had previously thought there had been mention of some hieroglyphics, but hearing now that there weren't any. Nada.

Sure seems like a very expensive way to forget soemone...I wish we had examples of burials that were like this one. I am far from an expert but I don't recall ever seeing 3 bodies stuffed in one box before, much less without any trinkets or recognizable items.

Do we have confirmed thief/murderer/bad guy burials to compare it to?

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2 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

Sure seems like a very expensive way to forget soemone...I wish we had examples of burials that were like this one. I am far from an expert but I don't recall ever seeing 3 bodies stuffed in one box before, much less without any trinkets or recognizable items.

Do we have confirmed thief/murderer/bad guy burials to compare it to?

I'm not any kind of an expert either. Just going on limited knowledge here and looking online at what's been written. I never heard of or found a reference to any other burial like this one. I'm just guessing Akhenaten and Nefertiti may have graves like this. May be why they can't be found. I'm going to keep looking around.

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What's odd too is having 3 people and only one bust. I still think ancient murder mystery....3 thieves attempt to rob a grave, First two thieves are murdered by the 3rd and thrown in with the grave occupant. 3rd thief takes all the funeral items except the bust and skeddaddles. That's why there is nothing left, no beads, no amulets, nothing of value. 

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14 hours ago, NicoletteS said:

If so then why the bust?   

That is certainly a mystery.   Could the bust be of someone protecting to make sure the coffin is not disturbed in any way?   Maybe it is the person who these 3 guys did so wrong?

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Such an anomaly, not like any other Egyptian burial.

Off hand, I'd speculate we've stumbled upon an ancient deception.  Someone of wealth and importance was supposed to be buried there in that sarcophagus (it's not a coffin).  The alabaster head is probably the remnants of a portrait head of the purported deceased.  If the rich guy only wanted to seem dead, he might have faked it somehow or other, skipped away, and filled the empty sarcophagus with his three henchmen who thought they were going to be richly rewarded, but knew too much to be left alive.  How such a subterfuge was carried out I couldn't rightfully guess.  It's just a supposition.

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It would have taken more than 3 people to lower that sarcophagus and then the lid. It would have taken large machinery to lower it. This thing weighs 30 tons. It also had to be mortared shut. This isn't a burial that was done on the sly.

I keep coming back to the same conclusion from everything I've found. These people were put there with no hope of an afterlife and the intention of erasing them from memory.

 

Edited by susieice
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On 7/19/2018 at 1:20 PM, Dark_Grey said:

A 66,000lb black granite box, very similar to the one located near Memphis, Egypt. Both boxes are unusually void of inscriptions, both are incredibly heavy (the Memphis box is over 100 tons,) which begs a multitude of typical questions surrounding ancient Egypt: how did they cut black granite so precisely with copper tools? How did they move 10's of thousands of pounds up and down hills and valleys? How did they transport the materials needed to build these massive boxes from so far away? What exactly IS the purpose of these over sized boxes, given they are so different than the coffins we have uncovered?

The lack of obvious names or details on these mysterious giant boxes is what intrigues me the most. It reminds me of the "King's chamber" in the Great Pyramid...eerily bare compared to so many other (confirmed) tombs. Anyways, watch the video above if you have time. This guys raises some great questions and I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

Agreed. This thing was transported to Alexandria. It would not be easy lowering this 66,000 box 15 ft down, if it wasn't deeper back then, and then the lid. Keep looking at this post of yours. Wasn't aware up until now there were others. Were any of them ever opened?

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This is the most recent article I can find. The Ministry of Antiquities wants everyone to know that is not a juice for mummies containing an elixir of life. :no:

http://time.com/5345125/egypt-black-sarcophagus-juice-for-mummies/

Here's what Live Science is saying.

https://www.livescience.com/63110-mysterious-black-sarcophagus-opened.html

Edited by susieice
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14 hours ago, susieice said:

Agreed. This thing was transported to Alexandria. It would not be easy lowering this 66,000 box 15 ft down, if it wasn't deeper back then, and then the lid. Keep looking at this post of yours. Wasn't aware up until now there were others. Were any of them ever opened?

Ah well now that you've seen the video, you get why I keep referring to the big black box as "expensive". Paying all those laborers? Constructing this box wasn't just another day on the job, it was a coordinated project. For each of the 20+ boxes out there.

The same fellow that made that informative little video just posted a follow up video now that the box has been opened. I just watched it this morning:

There are some very interesting photos of the box and the dig site in this video. Let me know when you have watched it and we can discuss some of the things he covers..

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Thanks Dark_Grey. I watched this video and he does make some good points. He doesn't seem to think these remains are Egyptian, concluding a murder mystery, which I don't agree with. I don't believe this was a murdered family burial unless it was an official murder. There is no way someone lifted that lid and then replaced it 16' down to hide a murder, even if it was reused. I think a reused sarcophagus would also have old inscriptions. It must have been solidly sealed if the odor didn't escape until the sarcophagus was cracked opened. Air would easily escape from the same openings the sewage got in to. He's suggesting the people were nude which I kind of do agree with. If they had been mummified, there would be amulets and scarabs. Everyone is mentioning the total lack of any artifacts or inscriptions.  It doesn't seem to have been found in a place where it will be easy to look around the burial site. Not in modern times anyway. I still can't believe they dumped that sewage liquid into the street. With all that odor?

I don't think some people are grasping how deep and how heavy this whole thing is.

Edited by susieice
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I guess what I'm saying is that no one dug a 16 foot hole, lowered a 66,000 lb sarcophagus, tossed a murdered family in and covered it back up without a lot of help and likely a lot of spectators. Since we don't know what ties these people together, I'm still saying these people did something and this burial was official.

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22 minutes ago, susieice said:

Thanks Dark_Grey. I watched this video and he does make some good points. He doesn't seem to think these remains are Egyptian, concluding a murder mystery, which I don't agree with. I don't believe this was a murdered family burial unless it was an official murder. There is no way someone lifted that lid and then replaced it 16' down to hide a murder, even if it was reused. I think a reused sarcophagus would also have old inscriptions. It must have been solidly sealed if the odor didn't escape until the sarcophagus was cracked opened. Air would easily escape from the same openings the sewage got in to. He's suggesting the people were nude which I kind of do agree with. If they had been mummified, there would be amulets and scarabs. Everyone is mentioning the total lack of any artifacts or inscriptions.  It doesn't seem to have been found in a place where it will be easy to look around the burial site. Not in modern times anyway. I still can't believe they dumped that sewage liquid into the street. With all that odor?

I don't think some people are grasping how deep and how heavy this whole thing is.

The pictures that he showed in the video changed the dynamic of this whole scenario for me. For starters, the dig itself seems a little...dubious. The official story is that they found the coffin while excavating for construction. First of all, who begins construction by digging 16 feet straight down? Second, what do they plan on building in a back alley? :huh: Here is the excavation site:

merlin_141483474_a87b199f-8d11-4865-a880

Did they find it with ground penetrating radar while preparing for a new building? Why does it look like they knew exactly where to dig for this special box? In this NY Times article, where I found the above picture, they mention something at the end that caught me by surprise:

Quote

Egypt’s Ministry of Antiquities has excavated 10 other sealed sarcophaguses in Minya, south of Cairo, this year.

What's really going on here? Were the other 10 sarcophaguses also made of expensive stone and sealed with mortar? I'll let you respond to this before I continue on a tangent lol

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36 minutes ago, susieice said:

I don't think some people are grasping how deep and how heavy this whole thing is.

For other people watching this thread unfold, here is just the lid for scale:

_102617235_tomb.jpg

How many braided ropes and pulleys would it take you to move this 2000 years ago? This is a staggering piece of work for ancient man...

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7 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

The pictures that he showed in the video changed the dynamic of this whole scenario for me. For starters, the dig itself seems a little...dubious. The official story is that they found the coffin while excavating for construction. First of all, who begins construction by digging 16 feet straight down? Second, what do they plan on building in a back alley? :huh: Here is the excavation site:

merlin_141483474_a87b199f-8d11-4865-a880

Did they find it with ground penetrating radar while preparing for a new building? Why does it look like they knew exactly where to dig for this special box? In this NY Times article, where I found the above picture, they mention something at the end that caught me by surprise:

What's really going on here? Were the other 10 sarcophaguses also made of expensive stone and sealed with mortar? I'll let you respond to this before I continue on a tangent lol

I noticed the black box in the video had hieroglyphics on it. This one has nada! If it was reused, you'd think the old engravings would be there unless someone somehow removed them, perfectly, at what expense. I didn't previously know others were found.

It's best to take this step by step so as to clearly think it over. A lot going on here! Good way to spend a rainy day!

Sixteen feet is an awfully long way to go down for a construction project. They're either planning a hell of a foundation or, possibly, that bust was found closer to the surface, which makes me wonder about the obvious niche in the rock right over the sarcophagus. It does look a little crowded there!

 

 

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