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Mystery source of ozone-depleting CFC found

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UFOwatcher
Posted (edited)

China doesn't really care and you thought they did...

Edited by UFOwatcher
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Seti42

And here I thought it was Trump's huge stash of 80's hairspray...

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seanjo

China was my favourite when I heard about this, India second favourite...

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Gecks

And here in Australia we're being forced to pay rediculously high electricity prices due to the paris agreement and to combat global warming so renewable energys on the table and coal fired plants are looking down..... and here the rest of the world doesnt give a toss

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paperdyer
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, UFOwatcher said:

China doesn't really care and you thought they did...

China does care.  They have shutdown numerous industrial parks in the last month for pollution. Chinese officials aren't saying for what type of pollution, but instead of just punishing the offending companies they shut everyone down cause severe hiccups in raw materials needed for manufacturing in the USA.  This is going to jack-up the price of numerous products in the next few months due to shortages and having to pay premium prices for what we can get. As our manufacturing cost increases get passed along to our customers and then to our customer's customers, etc., get ready for less free money in your pocket.

Edited by paperdyer
Added further explanation.

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A rather obscure Bassoon
5 hours ago, Seti42 said:

And here I thought it was Trump's huge stash of 80's hairspray...

Lil Kim uses the same brand I believe...

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A rather obscure Bassoon
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Gecks said:

And here in Australia we're being forced to pay rediculously high electricity prices due to the paris agreement and to combat global warming so renewable energys on the table and coal fired plants are looking down..... and here the rest of the world doesnt give a toss

Here in Ontario, our provincial government is about to duke it with the feds over the big carbon scam. Ford has declared he will scrap the present cap and trade program introduced by the last liberal government and challenge the feds over any implementation of Carbon taxes. Saskatchewan has declared that it would also like to join forces with Ontario.:gun:

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-who-would-win-if-trudeau-battled-ford-over-carbon-tax/

 

Edited by A rather obscure Bassoon

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Gecks
11 hours ago, paperdyer said:

China does care.  They have shutdown numerous industrial parks in the last month for pollution. Chinese officials aren't saying for what type of pollution, but instead of just punishing the offending companies they shut everyone down cause severe hiccups in raw materials needed for manufacturing in the USA.  This is going to jack-up the price of numerous products in the next few months due to shortages and having to pay premium prices for what we can get. As our manufacturing cost increases get passed along to our customers and then to our customer's customers, etc., get ready for less free money in your pocket.

To be fair if they cared, they would have enforced the ban on cfc-11 back in 2010 rather than act once caught out after causing ozone depletion that will take 10 years? To repair itself. 

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Gecks
7 hours ago, A rather obscure Bassoon said:

Here in Ontario, our provincial government is about to duke it with the feds over the big carbon scam. Ford has declared he will scrap the present cap and trade program introduced by the last liberal government and challenge the feds over any implementation of Carbon taxes. Saskatchewan has declared that it would also like to join forces with Ontario.:gun:

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-who-would-win-if-trudeau-battled-ford-over-carbon-tax/

 

Yeah it shows how aware people are becoming to the nonsense surrounding global warming and climate change etc etc. 

Now Im all for conserving the environment. And I guess if there were no greenies the world would be a pretty industrialised place and I like a few trees. If theres proof chemicals like cfc-11 cause ozone depletion great, stop them. Look at green alternatives. Build wind farms and hydroelectric generators to supply clean energy...... but dont charge people of the world ridiculous carbon taxes and pay premiums for electricity and fuel because it will 'save the environment'. All governments around the world are doing are p***ing down your back and telling you its raining to line their pockets and their mates. 

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Timothy
1 hour ago, Gecks said:

Yeah it shows how aware people are becoming to the nonsense surrounding global warming and climate change etc etc. 

Now Im all for conserving the environment. And I guess if there were no greenies the world would be a pretty industrialised place and I like a few trees. If theres proof chemicals like cfc-11 cause ozone depletion great, stop them. Look at green alternatives. Build wind farms and hydroelectric generators to supply clean energy...... but dont charge people of the world ridiculous carbon taxes and pay premiums for electricity and fuel because it will 'save the environment'. All governments around the world are doing are p***ing down your back and telling you its raining to line their pockets and their mates. 

Australia is far from perfect in many aspects, including being environmentally friendly. 

There are plenty of other nations out there doing as much, or more than the Aussies are. 

Having said that, I agree that China is one of the nations that ultimately does not care, until they’re made to. Yes they’re an economic superpower and are modernising. But also they are so primitive in many ways. 

All you can hope for is that enough of the world get on board to stop this kind of thing from continuing. 

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lost_shaman
14 hours ago, paperdyer said:

China does care.  They have shutdown numerous industrial parks in the last month for pollution. Chinese officials aren't saying for what type of pollution, but instead of just punishing the offending companies they shut everyone down cause severe hiccups in raw materials needed for manufacturing in the USA.  This is going to jack-up the price of numerous products in the next few months due to shortages and having to pay premium prices for what we can get. As our manufacturing cost increases get passed along to our customers and then to our customer's customers, etc., get ready for less free money in your pocket.

Or just stop buying junk that you know is the source of pollution from China. 

 

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A rather obscure Bassoon
4 hours ago, Timothy said:

Australia is far from perfect in many aspects, including being environmentally friendly. 

There are plenty of other nations out there doing as much, or more than the Aussies are. 

Having said that, I agree that China is one of the nations that ultimately does not care, until they’re made to. Yes they’re an economic superpower and are modernising. But also they are so primitive in many ways. 

All you can hope for is that enough of the world get on board to stop this kind of thing from continuing. 

Screw the carbon tax Trudeau is going to be forced to impose a unpopular tax in federal election year bye bye Justin.

 

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paperdyer
12 hours ago, Gecks said:

To be fair if they cared, they would have enforced the ban on cfc-11 back in 2010 rather than act once caught out after causing ozone depletion that will take 10 years? To repair itself. 

It's not the Government.  There are so many small manufacturers and not enough inspectors to go  around. I wouldn't be surprised at a few payoffs along the way, either.  The Chinese have an ancient saying, "It's only illegal if you get caught."  Now they are getting caught. Granted China shouldn't have let it happen in the first place, but they want to jump start their economy, which they did.  Now they have us by the short hairs because China and to some extent India, control the bulk of the manufacturing train either by base materials or by direct manufacturing of the finished products.

 

Just to give you an idea of how bad the costs increase will be, one of our key raw materials has increased 80% since this has started.  Many of the small producers will close as they can't/won't make the required upgrades to control pollution.  Other producer are just raising prices because they can, not because of pollution or raw material shortages. Where will "cheap" manufacturing move to next?  Vietnam, maybe  They've already entered the clothing market.

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Timothy
19 hours ago, A rather obscure Bassoon said:

Screw the carbon tax Trudeau is going to be forced to impose a unpopular tax in federal election year bye bye Justin.

It’s just sad that the public would put their own interests over real change. 

People scream ‘environmentally friendly’ when it suits them, then are happy to remove the leader if new policy costs them anything in extra taxes, or if they lose any of their perceived entitlements. Not everyone is like that, but it is accurate for the majority at this stage. 

Don’t worry, the same thing happens here in Australia.

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Gecks
15 hours ago, paperdyer said:

It's not the Government.  There are so many small manufacturers and not enough inspectors to go  around. I wouldn't be surprised at a few payoffs along the way, either.  The Chinese have an ancient saying, "It's only illegal if you get caught."  Now they are getting caught. Granted China shouldn't have let it happen in the first place, but they want to jump start their economy, which they did.  Now they have us by the short hairs because China and to some extent India, control the bulk of the manufacturing train either by base materials or by direct manufacturing of the finished products.

Thats a fair point. Perhaps governments should be looking at making more environmentally friendly processes more affordable if they want people to work within their guidelines.

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Gecks
1 hour ago, Timothy said:

It’s just sad that the public would put their own interests over real change. 

I dont know your personal situation but myself I soley support a family of 5 working 6 days a week and some weeks are around 60 hours... we barely scrape by week to week. A lot of others are in similar financial situations to us. Should my wife and 3 young children be out on the street so malcolm turnbull on his $500,000 + per year can apparently implement some 'real change' by forcing us to pay a premium for renewable energy? 

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Timothy
9 minutes ago, Gecks said:

I dont know your personal situation but myself I soley support a family of 5 working 6 days a week and some weeks are around 60 hours... we barely scrape by week to week. A lot of others are in similar financial situations to us. Should my wife and 3 young children be out on the street so malcolm turnbull on his $500,000 + per year can apparently implement some 'real change' by forcing us to pay a premium for renewable energy? 

Yes my personal situation is completely different, hence why I added the ‘not everyone is like that’. 

I was talking about the general population and general opinions on the matter. 

I would have hoped that you read and realised that my previous reply to you was liberal, not specific. 

I’m not trying to take anything away from what you’re doing to support your family, and I’d never attack someone who needs to provide that support over popular environmental and governmental matters. Please don’t take my comments in any way a criticism of how you are providing for you family.

Also, I never previously knew of your situation. You shouldn’t use that to try and help your arguments when someone hasn’t argued that against you. 

I was making a comment about our general society here in Australia and in other similar nations, in regard to environmental related issues. 

Please PM me if I’ve offended you or otherwise.

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Berwen

Why is this not surprising? China (along with the USA) creates most of the pollution in the world and its attitude about ivory and other weird concoctions that destroy life has to be changed.

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Gecks
11 hours ago, Timothy said:

Yes my personal situation is completely different, hence why I added the ‘not everyone is like that’. 

I was talking about the general population and general opinions on the matter. 

I would have hoped that you read and realised that my previous reply to you was liberal, not specific. 

I’m not trying to take anything away from what you’re doing to support your family, and I’d never attack someone who needs to provide that support over popular environmental and governmental matters. Please don’t take my comments in any way a criticism of how you are providing for you family.

Also, I never previously knew of your situation. You shouldn’t use that to try and help your arguments when someone hasn’t argued that against you. 

I was making a comment about our general society here in Australia and in other similar nations, in regard to environmental related issues. 

Please PM me if I’ve offended you or otherwise.

No mate, not offended and thanks. Im not trying to use my situation to help an argument, however I do believe theres a lot more people in the world now living in hard financial situations than we have seen in a long time and I think politicians on good salarys quickly forget the imposition they put on those that dont necessarily have the financial ability to sustain said promises and policys. 

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