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Farmer77

Trial runs for fascism are in full flow

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Farmer77

Fintan O’Toole: Trial runs for fascism are in full flow

 

Quote

To grasp what is going on in the world right now, we need to reflect on two things. One is that we are in a phase of trial runs. The other is that what is being trialled is fascism – a word that should be used carefully but not shirked when it is so clearly on the horizon. Forget “post-fascist” – what we are living with is pre-fascism.

It is easy to dismiss Donald Trump as an ignoramus, not least because he is. But he has an acute understanding of one thing: test marketing. He created himself in the gossip pages of the New York tabloids, where celebrity is manufactured by planting outrageous stories that you can later confirm or deny depending on how they go down. And he recreated himself in reality TV where the storylines can be adjusted according to the ratings. Put something out there, pull it back, adjust, go again.

Fascism doesn’t arise suddenly in an existing democracy. It is not easy to get people to give up their ideas of freedom and civility. You have to do trial runs that, if they are done well, serve two purposes. They get people used to something they may initially recoil from; and they allow you to refine and calibrate. This is what is happening now and we would be fools not to see it.

 

 

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Hammerclaw

“The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies "something not desirable"...In the case of a word like democracy, not only is there no agreed definition, but the attempt to make one is resisted from all sides. It is almost universally felt that when we call a country democratic we are praising it: consequently the defenders of every kind of regime claim that it is a democracy, and fear that they might have to stop using the word if it were tied down to any one meaning.”


George Orwell, Essays

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

“The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies "something not desirable"...In the case of a word like democracy, not only is there no agreed definition, but the attempt to make one is resisted from all sides. It is almost universally felt that when we call a country democratic we are praising it: consequently the defenders of every kind of regime claim that it is a democracy, and fear that they might have to stop using the word if it were tied down to any one meaning.”


George Orwell, Essays

Thats cool and all but it kind of presupposes that fascism or that fascist behavior is an extinct philosophy. IMO to do so would be spitting in the founding father's faces as we are supposed to be vigilant citizens. 

Even if its all by accident the warning signs are definitely there. Especially when you examine the last paragraph in the snippet I posted and juxtapose that with the religious right's embracement of a man who represents almost everything they've been battling against for decades. 

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StarMountainKid

Of course the easies way to gain control is to create an enemy of the people. I think that's been accomplished, illegal immigrants. 

Isolationism is another tactic. Raising tariffs, etc. The word is against us, we must protect ourselves.

Another interesting idea is, cutting taxes for the large corporations and the wealthy. Not only does this create a wealthy elite, with the shortfall in government income, it must be made up for by cutting entitlements. That's always been a conservative agenda.  

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acidhead

All you are doing is getting our King reelected!

Trump 2020

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acidhead

Thank you Farmer !

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Kismit
31 minutes ago, acidhead said:

All you are doing is getting our King reelected!

Trump 2020

Not a King and certainly not your King, in Canada.  You really do need to stop that rediculous rhetoric. 

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and then

 

1 hour ago, StarMountainKid said:

I think that's been accomplished, illegal immigrants.

Can you point to any other period in U.S. history when we have accepted as many people flowing into our country without any real vetting process?  We aren't even testing these people for communicable diseases.  We have never had unrestricted access like we have today.  I saw a story today about a drunk white guy in Chicago verbally abusing a woman in a "Puerto Rico" T-Shirt.  If the immigration issue is not handled soon, there's going to be a LOT more of that happening.  If we open the borders and let it be known that anyone can come, our population would increase by tens of millions.  Do you think it's a good idea to do that?

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Hammerclaw
1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

Thats cool and all but it kind of presupposes that fascism or that fascist behavior is an extinct philosophy. IMO to do so would be spitting in the founding father's faces as we are supposed to be vigilant citizens. 

Even if its all by accident the warning signs are definitely there. Especially when you examine the last paragraph in the snippet I posted and juxtapose that with the religious right's embracement of a man who represents almost everything they've been battling against for decades. 

The Right never expects a politician to be anything but and Trump was their way to spit in the eye of the left. He's sort of their Cyrus of Persia; a pagan, but their kind of pagan. The suppression of free speech is a hallmark of classic fascism and it ain't the right up to their armpits in that. And no, Kismit, Trump is no King, it's the left who love crowning their politicians king, Camelot and all that. Republicans elect a chairman of the board. When the left's in office and promote their political agenda, it'd called progressive. When the right is in office and promotes theirs, it's called divisive. Trump is abrasive and boorish and I didn't vote for him, Still he does get a few things right, pertaining to European hypocrisy of criticizing him for wanting better relations with Russia while at the same time engaging in lucrative business deals of their own, with her. 

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, and then said:

If the immigration issue is not handled soon, there's going to be a LOT more of that happening. 

BUULLLL 

We'll see a LOT more of that happening If people don't stop lying and exaggerating regarding the border for political gain. 

2 minutes ago, and then said:

  If we open the borders and let it be known that anyone can come, our population would increase by tens of millions.  Do you think it's a good idea to do that?

Do you guys go to a university to get your degrees in strawman building? Holy hell no one except the most absurdly extreme want open borders. Stop bringing that to the conversation its a load of garbage. 

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Hammerclaw
Just now, Farmer77 said:

Stop bringing that to the conversation its a load of garbage. 

Classic leftism. Shut up, I don't want to hear it.

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Dumbledore the Awesome
59 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Not a King and certainly not your King, in Canada.  You really do need to stop that rediculous rhetoric. 

You're quite right. It's The Emperor Donald The Merciless now I believe, is the title he insists on. 

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Farmer77
2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

The suppression of free speech is a hallmark of classic fascism and it ain't the right up to their armpits in that.

Really? I recommend you look into the J20 fiasco for starters, then examine the purpose of the "fake news" rhetoric,  further though the elimination of truth truly is the suppression of free speech

 

6 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Still he does get a few things right, pertaining to European hypocrisy of criticizing him for wanting better relations with Russia while at the same time engaging in lucrative business deals of their own, with her. 

The problem isn't that he wants better relations with Russia its that he only wants better relations with Russia, everyone else be damned. HIs announcement about Russia and the G-7 being a perfect example. Trump supporters were quick to run out and exclaim that he was right Russia should be at the G-7, despite the fact that economically China and India and a couple of others really outshine Russia and rightfully deserve a seat at the table before they do. So with that in mind why lobby for Russia again? 

The devil is in the details. 

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Dumbledore the Awesome
1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

Really? I recommend you look into the J20 fiasco for starters,

:huh: I presume you don't mean J2O Orange & Passion Fruit Blended Juice Drink

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Farmer77
7 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Classic leftism. Shut up, I don't want to hear it.

No dude he , and in his defense most with his veiwpoints , come into these threads and don't even bother engaging in the conversation that is actually happening. Instead they prop up their talk radio strawmen and argue against them. 

Ive not once seen someone on this thread or this board call for open borders, hell aside from some foxnews clips ive never heard anyone call for open borders period. 

Its not that I don't want to hear what people are saying, I just don't want to argue with their fairy tales. 

Edited by Farmer77
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Dumbledore the Awesome
3 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

The problem isn't that he wants better relations with Russia its that he only wants better relations with Russia, everyone else be damned. HIs announcement about Russia and the G-7 being a perfect example. Trump supporters were quick to run out and exclaim that he was right Russia should be at the G-7, despite the fact that economically China and India and a couple of others really outshine Russia and rightfully deserve a seat at the table before they do. So with that in mind why lobby for Russia again? 

Because his enemies are nearly all, as one, clamouring for little short of war, and he does have the sense at least to realise that that would not be good for busienss, or anything else really? Perhaps he sees that that's the really important point that should be sorted out first of all?

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Farmer77
Just now, Vlad the Mighty said:

Because his enemies are nearly all, as one, clamouring for little short of war, and he does have the sense at least to realise that that would not be good for busienss, or anything else really? Perhaps he sees that that's the really important point that should be sorted out first of all?

War is always good for business. That aside though don't you find it the slightest bit odd that he accepts Putin's word on the whole election thing, pushes for Russia to get a table at the G-7 (despite there being obvious better choices economically), is doing his best to wreck NATO and the UN and all the while doing everything possible to stoke division here in America (Bundy ranch pardons being the most recent example) ?  Oh and meanwhile the only folks he does seem to get along with are people who either are traditional enemies or should be (looking at you Duerte ) . 

Thats an abbreviated list to be sure. IDK man I didnt buy it at first, or at least thought the odds were extremely low,  but the man's actions have recently convinced me he is a Russian mole/plant/spy/patsy/useful idiot / blackmail victim take your pick. 

If he isn't working for the Russians it is one hell of a "happy accident" for them that he got elected. 

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

Really? I recommend you look into the J20 fiasco for starters, then examine the purpose of the "fake news" rhetoric,  further though the elimination of truth truly is the suppression of free speech

 

The problem isn't that he wants better relations with Russia its that he only wants better relations with Russia, everyone else be damned. HIs announcement about Russia and the G-7 being a perfect example. Trump supporters were quick to run out and exclaim that he was right Russia should be at the G-7, despite the fact that economically China and India and a couple of others really outshine Russia and rightfully deserve a seat at the table before they do. So with that in mind why lobby for Russia again? 

The devil is in the details. 

He dispenses with the diplomatic niceties and says exactly what he thinks and his honesty is appalling--but he's not speaking as the King of the Free World, he's speaking as an American President to his constituency and they actually admire his frankness.   Far from being an isolationist, he's chosen to engage with the world on his own caustic, bombastic, irritating terms and it's the world that wishes to isolate him. Can't say that I blame them, either. Some of the things he says are factually correct and frankly, embarrassing for a lot of world leaders accustomed to a more humble, discrete and accommodating presidency. Anyone throwing the word fascism around has a very loose and fly-by-the-seat-of-their-pants definition of the word.

 

 

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Farmer77
7 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Anyone throwing the word fascism around has a very loose and fly-by-the-seat-of-their-pants definition of the word.

Anyone not recognizing the warning signs is choosing willful ignorance. 

The warning signs are there even going as far back as his XO on lobbyists (wherein only HE can say who is worthy to be a lobbyist once leaving office) or the aforementioned J20 protest and the attempts to hide exculpatory evidence. 

Government moves to dismiss all remaining J20 cases After three crushing defeats in court, federal prosecutors decided to cut their losses.

 

It could turn out that the warning signs are nothing more than coincidence , or as I previously thought, were simply the result of political neophytes learning to operate in their new world. Regardless of the outcome the warning signs are definitely there. 

Edited by Farmer77
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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

Anyone not recognizing the warning signs is choosing willful ignorance. 

The warning signs are there even going as far back as his XO on lobbyists (wherein only HE can say who is worthy to be a lobbyist once leaving office) or the aforementioned J20 protest and the attempts to hide exculpatory evidence. 

Government moves to dismiss all remaining J20 cases After three crushing defeats in court, federal prosecutors decided to cut their losses.

 

It could turn out that the warning signs are nothing more than coincidence , or as I previously thought, were simply the result of political neophytes learning to operate in their own world. Regardless of the outcome the warning signs are definitely there. 

Frankly, I'm tired of hearing that kind of bull****. Gods, man, he's bad enough already. You don't need casebook propaganda tactics to make him any worse. The fact is, he's doing what he think's best for his country and that the left doesn't agree with his assessments or the way he's doing it, doesn't make him a fascist. He's just a jerk and he's President. Deal with it.

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DingoLingo
5 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Frankly, I'm tired of hearing that kind of bull****. Gods, man, he's bad enough already. You don't need casebook propaganda tactics to make him any worse. The fact is, he's doing what he think's best for his country and that the left doesn't agree with his assessments or the way he's doing it, doesn't make him a fascist. He's just a jerk and he's President. Deal with it.

not just the left mate.. there is a number of the right that do not like him either.. 

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Hammerclaw
Just now, DingoLingo said:

not just the left mate.. there is a number of the right that do not like him either.. 

Oh, that just can't be right. You must be jerking my chain.:rolleyes:

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Farmer77
Just now, Hammerclaw said:

Frankly, I'm tired of hearing that kind of bull****.

I hate to hear that but I definitely understand. Entirely too many ran with the fascist narrative before there was any cause to.  Like I said, I don't believe we're there just yet, my problem is with the groundwork being laid I don't see a way for us to avoid totalitarianism as a result of this administration. Whether it is of their making or it is someone else who uses the precedent this group is laying down (although in fairness in my lifetime the roots can most likely be traced back to the clintonites of the 90's and even the reaganites of the 80's - ). 

The hero worship and lack of boundaries is concerning. 

4 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

The fact is, he's doing what he think's best for his country and that the left doesn't agree with his assessments or the way he's doing it, doesn't make him a fascist.

Again I get why you would feel that way. I think thats largely why he is getting away with the things he has.  

I am however no longer convinced he is actually doing what he thinks is best for the country or even himself but  thats another conversation I suppose.  

6 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

He's just a jerk and he's President. Deal with it.

I can deal with the jerkiness to claim that is the sum total of the problems however is wholly ignoring the evidence.  

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Hammerclaw
Just now, Farmer77 said:

I hate to hear that but I definitely understand. Entirely too many ran with the fascist narrative before there was any cause to.  Like I said, I don't believe we're there just yet, my problem is with the groundwork being laid I don't see a way for us to avoid totalitarianism as a result of this administration. Whether it is of their making or it is someone else who uses the precedent this group is laying down (although in fairness in my lifetime the roots can most likely be traced back to the clintonites of the 90's and even the reaganites of the 80's - ). 

The hero worship and lack of boundaries is concerning. 

Again I get why you would feel that way. I think thats largely why he is getting away with the things he has.  

I am however no longer convinced he is actually doing what he thinks is best for the country or even himself but  thats another conversation I suppose.  

I can deal with the jerkiness to claim that is the sum total of the problems however is wholly ignoring the evidence.  

No, just dismissing you're interpretation of it.

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.ZZ.
42 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Ive not once seen someone on this thread or this board call for open borders, hell aside from some foxnews clips ive never heard anyone call for open borders period. 

Does this count?

29508196318_db8af4a953_z.jpg

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