Trial runs for fascism are in full flow

[Helen of Annoy]

51 minutes ago, godnodog said:

Murica is a weird place, probably the weirdest on  Earth

Apparently, Europe didn't send her best to America back then when the American settlers' culture started forming. 

We sent tugs who committed genocide on native population. 

We sent hypocrites who claimed to be Christian while keeping slaves. 

We sent surplus of village idiots. 

 

(I'm just giving Trumpers the taste of their own medicine. I don't really think the Americans in general seem like descendants of European village idiots only.)  

[godnodog]

6 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Apparently, Europe didn't send her best to America back then when the American settlers' culture started forming. 

We sent tugs who committed genocide on native population. 

We sent hypocrites who claimed to be Christian while keeping slaves. 

We sent surplus of village idiots. 

 

(I'm just giving Trumpers the taste of their own medicine. I don't really think the Americans in general seem like descendants of European village idiots only.)  

No, I think americans think the USA as some sort of holy cow of the planet so the weirdest stuff keeps happening there with more frequency than anywhere else.

[Buzz_Light_Year]

6 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Apparently, Europe didn't send her best to America back then when the American settlers' culture started forming. 

We sent tugs who committed genocide on native population. 

We sent hypocrites who claimed to be Christian while keeping slaves. 

We sent surplus of village idiots. 

 

(I'm just giving Trumpers the taste of their own medicine. I don't really think the Americans in general seem like descendants of European village idiots only.)  

Nah you kept your best for later...............

Jasenovac concentration camp

[Helen of Annoy]

39 minutes ago, godnodog said:

No, I think americans think the USA as some sort of holy cow of the planet so the weirdest stuff keeps happening there with more frequency than anywhere else.

Probably the Indian curse  

Plus the fact that the most of European immigrants to America were in fact mostly uneducated, unskilled and desperate. 

 

26 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Nah you kept your best for later...............

Jasenovac concentration camp

But it's the Trumpers that claim there's some imaginary Antifa that you should be afraid of. 

Antifa is short for anti-fascists. People who oppose fascism. 

Back then, in WWII, anti-fascists were exterminated in death and concentration camps. Jasenovac was one of them. I've got ancestors listed as victims in that very camp - though they were killed elsewhere, to be precise. But they did pay for their anti-fascism with their lives. 

If we were making this conversation back then, it would be me in danger of ending up in Jasenovac, and those who were running it would certainly be pleased with Trumpian rhetoric and his intention to 'send home' anyone who doesn't kiss his wannabe fascist ass.

It's extremely bad choice to vote for 'send them home' evil clowns, because that sending home can (and did) easily turn into 'let them die from infectious diseases and malnutrition in concentration camps'. And when they spend all the other 'enemies', they will come after you too. See Stalinism for the examples of being murdered by the same regime you supported fervently. 

 

The most hilarious part of Trump's white-poweresque attempts to rebrand fascism is that oh, isn't that an Aryan ideal you've found to pose as a führer for you    

 

Serve you right. 

[Duke Wellington]

7 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Probably the Indian curse  

Plus the fact that the most of European immigrants to America were in fact mostly uneducated, unskilled and desperate. 

But it's the Trumpers that claim there's some imaginary Antifa that you should be afraid of. 

Antifa is short for anti-fascists. People who oppose fascism. 

Back then, in WWII, anti-fascists were exterminated in death and concentration camps. Jasenovac was one of them. I've got ancestors listed as victims in that very camp - though they were killed elsewhere, to be precise. But they did pay for their anti-fascism with their lives. 

If we were making this conversation back then, it would be me in danger of ending up in Jasenovac, and those who were running it would certainly be pleased with Trumpian rhetoric and his intention to 'send home' anyone who doesn't kiss his wannabe fascist ass.

It's extremely bad choice to vote for 'send them home' evil clowns, because that sending home can (and did) easily turn into 'let them die from infectious diseases and malnutrition in concentration camps'. And when they spend all the other 'enemies', they will come after you too. See Stalinism for the examples of being murdered by the same regime you supported fervently. 

The most hilarious part of Trump's white-poweresque attempts to rebrand fascism is that oh, isn't that an Aryan ideal you've found to pose as a führer for you   

Serve you right. 

In America the people have the mentality that if someone doesnt love the country then what are they doing living there? Trump and his supporters were not saying send these four women back because they are foreign. He was saying due to their constant negativity towards the USA they should go back because they obviously dont like living in America.

The worst one of the four, supports Jihadists saying 9/11 was due to US foreign policy. Maybe you dont get how much resentment that causes? If so go to New York, stand in the middle of the city, and start telling people they deserved being attacked on 9/11. Watch the outrage.

[Helen of Annoy]

34 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

In America the people have the mentality that if someone doesnt love the country then what are they doing living there? Trump and his supporters were not saying send these four women back because they are foreign. He was saying due to their constant negativity towards the USA they should go back because they obviously dont like living in America.

The worst one of the four, supports Jihadists saying 9/11 was due to US foreign policy. Maybe you dont get how much resentment that causes? If so go to New York, stand in the middle of the city, and start telling people they deserved being attacked on 9/11. Watch the outrage.

Oh, I agree with the obvious fact that if someone doesn't love the country, they should leave. It's not even political matter, that's pure common sense thing. 

But what gives Trump the idea that the people who do not support his politics are automatically, by some lack of logic, against their country? 

Since when is Trump the embodiment of the US? 

He indeed is the embodiment of seven deadly sins and everything that is wrong with American society, but not the US entire. They've got decent and literate people there too. So I'd say that an American being at least not happy and preferably outright outraged with Trump is actually a proof of healthy patriotism. 

 

Also, please do not spread Trumpist fake news. No one supported jihadists, except US governments who kept keeping Saudis for allies. *barf* 

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, RabidMongoose said:

The worst one of the four, supports Jihadists saying 9/11 was due to US foreign policy. Maybe you dont get how much resentment that causes? If so go to New York, stand in the middle of the city, and start telling people they deserved being attacked on 9/11. Watch the outrage.

There isn't a single loud-mouth hater on UM with the guts to try THAT bit of honesty on their part.  They are transparent and they know what they are but are too ashamed to admit it.  Must be some life they lead.  Meanwhile, people are literally dying to try to get here.  Some awful nation we idiot scum have managed to build, what?

[Duke Wellington]

51 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Oh, I agree with the obvious fact that if someone doesn't love the country, they should leave. It's not even political matter, that's pure common sense thing. 

But what gives Trump the idea that the people who do not support his politics are automatically, by some lack of logic, against their country? 

Since when is Trump the embodiment of the US? 

He indeed is the embodiment of seven deadly sins and everything that is wrong with American society, but not the US entire. They've got decent and literate people there too. So I'd say that an American being at least not happy and preferably outright outraged with Trump is actually a proof of healthy patriotism. 

Also, please do not spread Trumpist fake news. No one supported jihadists, except US governments who kept keeping Saudis for allies. *barf* 

I suspect you dont know the history of the four women being told to go home?

Trump isn't saying send those women back because they are black or because they arent fellow Republicans. All four of them are ultra-left extremists inside the Democrat Party and he is exposing them to try and support his re-election chances.

He knows their is widespread disbelief at some of the stuff those four women have come out with over the years. It does indeed include saying the US deserved to be attacked on 9/11. I`m surprised the Democrats have allowed the four of them to remain in the party because they repel voters rather than attracting them.

Those four women are wholly negative towards the USA, so why are they living there if they dont like the way it is?

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

11 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Apparently, Europe didn't send her best to America back then when the American settlers' culture started forming. 

We sent tugs who committed genocide on native population. 

We sent hypocrites who claimed to be Christian while keeping slaves. 

We sent surplus of village idiots. 

 

(I'm just giving Trumpers the taste of their own medicine. I don't really think the Americans in general seem like descendants of European village idiots only.)  

They literally sent criminals (America was home to the first of the British penal colonies).

[Gwynbleidd]

 

35 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

They literally sent criminals (America was home to the first of the British penal colonies).

 Well we all know they definitely didn't send their best to Oz.  

 

[Tatetopa]

11 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Apparently, Europe didn't send her best to America back then when the American settlers' culture started forming. 

We sent tugs who committed genocide on native population. 

We sent hypocrites who claimed to be Christian while keeping slaves. 

We sent surplus of village idiots. 

 

(I'm just giving Trumpers the taste of their own medicine. I don't really think the Americans in general seem like descendants of European village idiots only.)  

Well, in all fairness, there is some truth to your claim.  Of the most successful people, well established in their home countries, only a few decided to come.  Steerage on the sailing ships was filled with starving Irishmen.    A lot of them were tenants, farming an acre or less to feed their families on land owned by someone else.  Many of them had Gaelic and no English.  The South was filled with slaves  and the Southwest belonged to Mexico until we changed the borders.  Some of those "invaders" on the southern border have had families living in the same area on this side for 300 years.  The Southwest was speaking Spanish when the 13 colonies were still singing "God Save the King."  Until WWi cut off the supply, Henry Ford, BF Goodrich and Andrew Carnegie filled their mills and factories and mines with Central European peasants and Jews being driven out of their lands.  Our transcontinental railroads were built by Chinese and Irishmen. 

Occasionally, all of that recedes into the background and we do something good together that makes us all proud.  Right now the Apollo missions  to the moon come to mind.

400,000 people worked on the Apollo project, there were scientists and engineers that came here from all over the world.  There were 1000's of companies involved in that huge effort.

It wasn't a war, we did not have to kill anybody, there were no protests, we set an ambitious goal to put a man on the moon and bring him back safely. 

There was a team of black female mathematicians who computed the trajectories to get them there and back.  That was in a time when the Federal government was trying to extend equality and guarantee freedom to all of its citizens.  Blacks in general and women in particular who had technical degrees were not hired by private industry.  The early space program saw them as an untapped national resource when there were not even bathrooms for Blacks and women in many of the technical buildings. . 

When an Astronaut first stepped out onto the surface of the moon, it was all of us, we felt a part of it.  When kids drank Tang, we shared an experience with the astronauts.  It was not even limited to America.  When they toured the world, the astronauts were greeted as heroes for humanity.  People all over the world owned a part of it.  Humans from earth had walked on the moon.

I was only a little kid at the time, but I remember the feeling.  America was united and I think respected and admire by most of the world at that time.  In my life, that was the time America was Great.

Are we going to see anything to match that in my lifetime?  Not if we keep dividing and hating and fearing and dividing some more.  

Cleaning up the planet and saving humanity might  be the equal or better than that.  The green new deal is an idea with many faults, but it could be modified.  At its root though, it is a vision, an ambitious goal, a thing that could spur technology, wealth, and better conditions for much of humanity.   Maybe our children or grandchildren will tackle it when conditions grow worse.  It won't seem so expensive then.  Maybe the next great accomplishment for humanity will not originate or be supported by the United States.  As someone who loves this country and is proud of it, that would make me sad.

[Buzz_Light_Year]

5 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Probably the Indian curse  

Plus the fact that the most of European immigrants to America were in fact mostly uneducated, unskilled and desperate. 

 

But it's the Trumpers that claim there's some imaginary Antifa that you should be afraid of. 

Antifa is short for anti-fascists. People who oppose fascism. 

Back then, in WWII, anti-fascists were exterminated in death and concentration camps. Jasenovac was one of them. I've got ancestors listed as victims in that very camp - though they were killed elsewhere, to be precise. But they did pay for their anti-fascism with their lives. 

If we were making this conversation back then, it would be me in danger of ending up in Jasenovac, and those who were running it would certainly be pleased with Trumpian rhetoric and his intention to 'send home' anyone who doesn't kiss his wannabe fascist ass.

It's extremely bad choice to vote for 'send them home' evil clowns, because that sending home can (and did) easily turn into 'let them die from infectious diseases and malnutrition in concentration camps'. And when they spend all the other 'enemies', they will come after you too. See Stalinism for the examples of being murdered by the same regime you supported fervently. 

 

The most hilarious part of Trump's white-poweresque attempts to rebrand fascism is that oh, isn't that an Aryan ideal you've found to pose as a führer for you    

 

Serve you right. 

Prewar Antifa were communist. Antifaschistische Aktion

They were formed by the KPD Kommunistische Partei Deutschlands

 

[Tatetopa]

3 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

I suspect you dont know the history of the four women being told to go home?

Trump isn't saying send those women back because they are black or because they arent fellow Republicans. All four of them are ultra-left extremists inside the Democrat Party and he is exposing them to try and support his re-election chances.

He knows their is widespread disbelief at some of the stuff those four women have come out with over the years. It does indeed include saying the US deserved to be attacked on 9/11. I`m surprised the Democrats have allowed the four of them to remain in the party because they repel voters rather than attracting them.

Those four women are wholly negative towards the USA, so why are they living there if they dont like the way it is?

This confirms to me that you don't have a clue about the history of these four women.

Some of the Trumpian quotes are distorted and made up lies.  Just like the time he said he witnessed Arabs cheering at the fall of the world trade centers.  A fiction to further his point.

Truly they are radical,  They want economic and social justice for their constituents.  Not all of their ideas are good, and I don't personally support all of them but they do not hate America.  They may be angry at the injustices they see ans want the Constitution to be real in its guarantees for all Americans..

You are right, President Trump is using fear and anger and disgust for the difference between us to help himself get reelected.

But maybe you should go back and do a little research on this America loving President.

He avoided the draft with bone spurs. His great love for America showed through in this interview with Bill Oreilly:

O'Reilly pressed on, declaring to the president that “Putin is a killer.”

Unfazed, Trump didn't back away, but rather compared Putin's reputation for extrajudicial killings with the United States'.

“There are a lot of killers. We have a lot of killers,” Trump said. “Well, you think our country is so innocent?”

It is another gimmick to divide us and get the president reelected.

 

 

[Vorg]

1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

This confirms to me that you don't have a clue about the history of these four women.

Some of the Trumpian quotes are distorted and made up lies.  Just like the time he said he witnessed Arabs cheering at the fall of the world trade centers.  A fiction to further his point.

Truly they are radical,  They want economic and social justice for their constituents.  Not all of their ideas are good, and I don't personally support all of them but they do not hate America.  They may be angry at the injustices they see ans want the Constitution to be real in its guarantees for all Americans..

You are right, President Trump is using fear and anger and disgust for the difference between us to help himself get reelected.

But maybe you should go back and do a little research on this America loving President.

He avoided the draft with bone spurs. His great love for America showed through in this interview with Bill Oreilly:

O'Reilly pressed on, declaring to the president that “Putin is a killer.”

Unfazed, Trump didn't back away, but rather compared Putin's reputation for extrajudicial killings with the United States'.

“There are a lot of killers. We have a lot of killers,” Trump said. “Well, you think our country is so innocent?”

It is another gimmick to divide us and get the president reelected.

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/11/24/the-video-of-celebrations-that-was-broadcast-on-911/

[Tatetopa]

12 minutes ago, South Alabam said:

Some of the Trumpian quotes are distorted and made up lies.  Just like the time he said he witnessed Arabs cheering at the fall of the world trade centers.  A fiction to further his point.

Trump’s original statement was that he saw on TV “thousands and thousands” of people cheering in New Jersey after the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. He didn’t simply say that there were “people dancing” in the streets or on rooftops.

Trump, Nov. 21, 2015: Hey, I watched when the World Trade Center came tumbling down. And I watched in Jersey City, New Jersey, where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down. Thousands of people were cheering. So something’s going on. We’ve got to find out what it is.

A day later, on ABC’s “This Week,” Trump stuck to that story: “It did happen. I saw it. … It was on television. I saw it. … There were people that were cheering on the other side of New Jersey, where you have large Arab populations. They were cheering as the World Trade Center came down.”

But we and other fact-checkers found no evidence that thousands of people in New Jersey cheered the 9/11 attacks. What is true is that local and national news organizations tried to verify reports of celebrations in New Jersey cities and turned up little or nothing.

 

[Tatetopa]

Hi South Alabam, here was the source I used for my statement.  Thanks for posting another.  There is some conflict between them, are both true?

[Vorg]

2 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Trump’s original statement was that he saw on TV “thousands and thousands” of people cheering in New Jersey after the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. He didn’t simply say that there were “people dancing” in the streets or on rooftops.

Trump, Nov. 21, 2015: Hey, I watched when the World Trade Center came tumbling down. And I watched in Jersey City, New Jersey, where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down. Thousands of people were cheering. So something’s going on. We’ve got to find out what it is.

A day later, on ABC’s “This Week,” Trump stuck to that story: “It did happen. I saw it. … It was on television. I saw it. … There were people that were cheering on the other side of New Jersey, where you have large Arab populations. They were cheering as the World Trade Center came down.”

But we and other fact-checkers found no evidence that thousands of people in New Jersey cheered the 9/11 attacks. What is true is that local and national news organizations tried to verify reports of celebrations in New Jersey cities and turned up little or nothing.

 

I realize that.  But this is the way the media works with Trump. They could have said, you are probably confusing the Jersey rooftop story which did happen with 20 to 30 people and thousands of Palestinians dancing and cheering the destruction of the towers, which also happened. But they neglected to mention the Palestinian video to him, and instead brand him a liar making him look inept at every turn. But that's O.K America is watching and waiting for 2020.

[Duke Wellington]

9 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

This confirms to me that you don't have a clue about the history of these four women.

Some of the Trumpian quotes are distorted and made up lies.  Just like the time he said he witnessed Arabs cheering at the fall of the world trade centers.  A fiction to further his point.

Truly they are radical,  They want economic and social justice for their constituents.  Not all of their ideas are good, and I don't personally support all of them but they do not hate America.  They may be angry at the injustices they see ans want the Constitution to be real in its guarantees for all Americans..

You are right, President Trump is using fear and anger and disgust for the difference between us to help himself get reelected.

But maybe you should go back and do a little research on this America loving President.

He avoided the draft with bone spurs. His great love for America showed through in this interview with Bill Oreilly:

O'Reilly pressed on, declaring to the president that “Putin is a killer.”

Unfazed, Trump didn't back away, but rather compared Putin's reputation for extrajudicial killings with the United States'.

“There are a lot of killers. We have a lot of killers,” Trump said. “Well, you think our country is so innocent?”

It is another gimmick to divide us and get the president reelected.

Firstly I watched the comments.

Secondly you as a poster have zero credibility with me because I have seen you lying and distorting constantly. It doesnt work on me.

Edited July 22, 2019 by RabidMongoose

[RAyMO]

7 hours ago, South Alabam said:

I realize that.  But this is the way the media works with Trump. They could have said, you are probably confusing the Jersey rooftop story which did happen with 20 to 30 people and thousands of Palestinians dancing and cheering the destruction of the towers, which also happened. But they neglected to mention the Palestinian video to him, and instead brand him a liar making him look inept at every turn. But that's O.K America is watching and waiting for 2020.

This is quite weird. It is not up to the press to find excuses for the President's words, its up to the president to ensure the accuracy of his words especially before he castigates residents of cities in his own country. That he doubled down claiming the "world's best memory" says quite a lot about him.

The press is fulfilling its role, Trumps problem is not the press, its that he keeps providing them with faux pas to be reported, or in his view exploited.

Edited July 22, 2019 by RAyMO

[Helen of Annoy]

15 hours ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Prewar Antifa were communist. Antifaschistische Aktion

They were formed by the KPD Kommunistische Partei Deutschlands

 

 

Of course the original Antifa was communist. With the exception of the French, all the significant resistance (in the sense of anti-fascist) movements in WWII in Europe were communist. And they all started organising themselves even before the war. 

The difference is that German communists were successfully exterminated by the Nazis, even before the war. 

A sane person shouldn't conclude that Nazis were good guys, just because they were fighting communists, because communists screwed up only after the war, when they 'forgot' about equality and did pretty much the same Nazis would do if they didn't lose the war: introduced state terror and the untouchable class of party officials who lived in luxury, while the working class, so holy on paper, was mostly half-hungry and without any rights. 

 

My point was that if we know history, and apparently we do, we should never allow any moron today to manipulate and falsify that history to suit his moronic needs of the moment. 

Were your grandparents Americans? Then your grandfathers (or great-grandfathers, I don't know how old you are) probably fought in the WWII against Nazis and/or Nazi allies.

Your grandfathers were the original Antifa too. 

Yeah, you can have that in meme form too: 

    

 

 

Now, I am aware you had a case or two of random people punching openly declared neo-Nazis in front of camera. If that's enough of 'Antifa' to scare the crap out of your contemporary wannabe Nazis, then your wannabe Nazis are such huge pussies Trump would need both hands to grab them.   

I am also aware you've got that... person... who should be the president of the US, who is regularly giving statements that stink of totalitarian ambitions, racism and as such are clearly un-American. 

I'm not an American, so I might be mistaken. You tell me, is dividing Americans based on the colour of their skin, their ethnic origin, their religion, or their political opinion, an American thing to do? Is attempting to shut the objective press down while lying shamelessly an American thing? 

So who's the real American here? Trump, with his adoration of foreign dictators, openly declared totalitarian desires and open hatred of certain Americans, or Americans who happen to lean left? 

Are you aware that leaning left is quite Christian thing? Because would Jesus want us to leave children hungry, uneducated and 'sent back home' if they're not white enough? 

oops, I started preaching  

But it's true. In my opinion. I can imagine Jesus being a socialist - certainly not of the totalitarian kind - but I can't imagine him being a Nazi. 

 

 

 

@Tatetopa You're a part of that US I wanted to escape to when I was a kid. I don't just hope, I know you'll survive this most unfortunate episode. 

It's so important for everyone, as you certainly know, because return of officially accepted racism and isolationism in the US would open the flood gates of political idiocy all over the world. Our own local political vampires are dying for proof that their own racist and isolationist ideas are acceptable in the 21st century. May we disappoint them. Bigly. 

[+OverSword]

On ‎7‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 4:36 AM, Helen of Annoy said:

Apparently, Europe didn't send her best to America back then when the American settlers' culture started forming. 

We sent tugs who committed genocide on native population. 

We sent hypocrites who claimed to be Christian while keeping slaves. 

We sent surplus of village idiots. 

 

(I'm just giving Trumpers the taste of their own medicine. I don't really think the Americans in general seem like descendants of European village idiots only.)  

It's true.  We were kicked out of every decent county in Europe. 

But honestly, we are descended from the toughest and bravest people on the planet imo.  People who were not satisfied that they were getting the most out of their existence and did something pretty extreme to change that.  As far as genocide on natives most were killed by disease in the first 200 years, long before the US existed, so not really anyones fault as medical science was mainly superstition back then. 

 

[+OverSword]

22 hours ago, godnodog said:

No, I think americans think the USA as some sort of holy cow of the planet so the weirdest stuff keeps happening there with more frequency than anywhere else.

Such as?

Maybe you mean men walking on the moon.  Or perhaps you mean GPS or the operating system you're using?  Perhaps you're talking about the invention of airplanes or electric lightbulbs.  Perhaps you're referring to Rock & Roll or Levis. 

Edited July 22, 2019 by OverSword

[Gromdor]

1 minute ago, OverSword said:

Such as?

Honey Boo Boo and gender reveal parties for pets!

 

[+OverSword]

1 minute ago, Gromdor said:

Honey Boo Boo and gender reveal parties for pets!

 

It's tough to look away from a train wreck.

[Helen of Annoy]

3 minutes ago, OverSword said:

It's true.  We were kicked out of every decent county in Europe. 

But honestly, we are descended from the toughest and bravest people on the planet imo.  People who were not satisfied that they were getting the most out of their existence and did something pretty extreme to change that.  As far as genocide on natives most were killed by disease in the first 200 years, long before the US existed, so not really anyones fault as medical science was mainly superstition back then. 

 

Yeah, yeah, but we're not taking you back  

Especially not those mutts who belong to 7 or more nations. Unless the Europe is united enough we can just saw the English parts off and send them to Great Brexitland. 

And don't invent excuses for the genocide. It's not looking any less horrible because native Americans had epidemics before the genocide Europeans committed, it's looking even worse.