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Farmer77

Trial runs for fascism are in full flow

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

No, just dismissing you're interpretation of it.

Fair enough. So you don't think using "casebook propaganda tactics" is a warning sign of fascism? Its a little odd you recognized them when I was allegedly doing it yet the most basic (yep im going there) example of fascist, or totalitarian if you prefer, propaganda is being played out from the White house on a daily basis  and you don't see it. 

Quote

“All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”― Hermann Göring

Sound familiar at all? Kinda like right where you jumped in on the conversation with my response to and then's rhetoric about open borders? 

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bee

 

Babies in cages.... test marketing for barbarism :rolleyes:

what new levels of twaddle is this thread stooping to ? I mean... really -

This is either a Flame Bait Troll thread or some kind of insane doubling down on the nonsense because previous 
nonsense is not working out as well as the Trump Detractors hoped --- 

 

 

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Hammerclaw
3 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Fair enough. So you don't think using "casebook propaganda tactics" is a warning sign of fascism? Its a little odd you recognized them when I was allegedly doing it yet the most basic (yep im going there) example of fascist, or totalitarian if you prefer, propaganda is being played out from the White house on a daily basis  and you don't see it. 

Sound familiar at all? Kinda like right where you jumped in on the conversation with my response to and then's rhetoric about open borders? 

Worked for Roosevelt and Johnson, yet no fascism.

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Farmer77
6 minutes ago, .ZZ. said:

Does this count?

29508196318_db8af4a953_z.jpg

You're kinda making my point.

You had to go to conservative review to find this because folks like them make a living out of creating outrage. Its not a mainstream position, its not a popular position, polling has shown almost no one wants open borders. Dragging that strawman into an argument where exactly no one has said they want open borders is just tiresome. 

 

 

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krone
2 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Thats cool and all but it kind of presupposes that fascism or that fascist behavior is an extinct philosophy. IMO to do so would be spitting in the founding father's faces as we are supposed to be vigilant citizens. 

Even if its all by accident the warning signs are definitely there. Especially when you examine the last paragraph in the snippet I posted and juxtapose that with the religious right's embracement of a man who represents almost everything they've been battling against for decades. 

Indeed, it's most definitely built upon the premise that fascism was dead when he wrote it. Totally out of context for this discussion. Look at Orwell's descriptions of the rise of fascism however, and you see Trump's MO mirrored in it.

Edited by krone
to add sthing
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Farmer77
2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Worked for Roosevelt and Johnson, yet no fascism.

Wait you mean people who were talking about actual wars on foreign shores vs police actions which persecute a select minority here in the US ? Kind of a huge difference 

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.ZZ.
2 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

You're kinda making my point.

You had to go to conservative review to find this because folks like them make a living out of creating outrage. Its not a mainstream position, its not a popular position, polling has shown almost no one wants open borders. Dragging that strawman into an argument where exactly no one has said they want open borders is just tiresome. 

 

 

Wait, you said you haven't heard of anyone calling for open borders and then go to your default shaming  the source. How do you know where that came from? lol

"Strawman" THAT is getting tiresome young man. Boring.

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Farmer77
Just now, .ZZ. said:

Wait, you said you haven't heard of anyone calling for open borders and then go to your default shaming  the source. How do you know where that came from? lol

Well I said ive never seen it on here but I also said the only place I have seen such things were on clips from foxnews which is why I mentioned the source, not to disparage it, but to point out that there is a real trend of right leaning media picking out the outliers and making them seem like the majority ( I know they learned from the masters at the MSM) 

Overall the "liberals want open borders" argument is (here's that dreaded word) a strawman argument. 

More Polling: Majority Want an End to Chain Migration

 

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.ZZ.
1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

Well I said ive never seen it on here but I also said the only place I have seen such things were on clips from foxnews which is why I mentioned the source, not to disparage it, but to point out that there is a real trend of right leaning media picking out the outliers and making them seem like the majority ( I know they learned from the masters at the MSM) 

Overall the "liberals want open borders" argument is (here's that dreaded word) a strawman argument. 

More Polling: Majority Want an End to Chain Migration

 

I see, so it went from nobody to less than the majority. Cool.

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krone
24 minutes ago, .ZZ. said:

Wait, you said you haven't heard of anyone calling for open borders and then go to your default shaming  the source. How do you know where that came from? lol

"Strawman" THAT is getting tiresome young man. Boring.

If you're tired of hearing it, it might be a sign that you overuse the strawman tactic in discussions. Cause and effect.

Edited by krone
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Farmer77
2 minutes ago, .ZZ. said:

I see, so it went from nobody to less than the majority. Cool.

Not exactly , nice try though 

Quote

No dude he , and in his defense most with his veiwpoints , come into these threads and don't even bother engaging in the conversation that is actually happening. Instead they prop up their talk radio strawmen and argue against them. 

Ive not once seen someone on this thread or this board call for open borders, hell aside from some foxnews clips ive never heard anyone call for open borders period. 

Its not that I don't want to hear what people are saying, I just don't want to argue with their fairy tales

 

 

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.ZZ.
1 minute ago, krone said:

If you're tired of hearing it, it might be because you overuse the strawman tactic in discussions. Cause and effect.

I'm sorry, do I know you?

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krone
15 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Not exactly , nice try though 

 

 

Ah, but there was probably a "did you know the Left is demanding open borders?" meme on Infowars, once... Kind of like the one about Democrats banning Christmas celebrations in schools. It doesn't need to be true for the right to keep on bringing it up in discussions, these stories are the only things that make others' political goals seems as ridiculous as their own

Edited by krone
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krone
14 minutes ago, .ZZ. said:

I'm sorry, do I know you?

Nope, and that's why I said, "might be" instead of "are" :D

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, krone said:

Ah, but there was probably a "did you know the Left is demanding open borders?" meme on Infowars, once... Kind of like the one about Democrats banning Christmas celebrations in schools. It doesn't need to be true for the right to keep on bringing it up in discussions, it's the only thing that makes others' political goals seems as ridiculous as their own

Man the insistence of the existence of this faux war on Christmas was one of the final straws in my attempted Christian walk. Just such blatant empty propaganda to keep the faithful spiteful. 

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DingoLingo

talking to a few friends that are in texas that voted for Trump.. as they said.. they voted for him because he was the lesser of two evils (which I do happen to agree with.. Skankery would have been a huge mistake) but even they say (along with a number of their friends who voted trump) it will depend on who steps up the next election.. if they see someone they like better they will vote for them.. they have even said they will vote Democrat if the person is a better option then Trump.. 

Dont get me wrong there is still a huge amount of support for the Orange Clown.. but not as much as there was at the start.. People are getting tired of him looking like a idiot all the time on twitter.. 

With Trump in charge america has gone from the respected leader of the free world (and yes us Aussies did see the US as that) to the sad drunk uncle at the party who makes fart noises and by the end of the night is naked with a flower pot on his head. 

Australians opinions of America with Trump at the Helm has slipped.. we no longer see america as a trusted ally.. someone who would have our back if we needed it.. and that is a sad thing to say.. 

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Sir Wearer of Hats
3 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Thats cool and all but it kind of presupposes that fascism or that fascist behavior is an extinct philosophy. IMO to do so would be spitting in the founding father's faces as we are supposed to be vigilant citizens. 

Even if its all by accident the warning signs are definitely there. Especially when you examine the last paragraph in the snippet I posted and juxtapose that with the religious right's embracement of a man who represents almost everything they've been battling against for decades. 

No, thr only thing that Orwell’s essay presupposes is that people will go on to use words with deep meaning to cover venal actions. 

Bloke in a position of power behaves like a ****? He’s a fascist.

Fellow in the street says mean things? He’s a fascist.

Teacher sends kid to detention? They’re a fascist.

Fascist is a terrible word, that should only be used in the most terrible of times. And to mean a very certain, specific thing.

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Dumbledore the Awesome
18 minutes ago, DingoLingo said:

With Trump in charge america has gone from the respected leader of the free world (and yes us Aussies did see the US as that) to the sad drunk uncle at the party who makes fart noises and by the end of the night is naked with a flower pot on his head. 

This is what's good about him! He's making people and other countries realise that they ought perhaps to start taking responsibility for themselves and that many people in America have had enough of their governements feeling that they have the right to dictate what everywhere else in the world ought to do. He's really very very subversive, and that's why the Establishment so hate him.  

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DingoLingo
53 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

This is what's good about him! He's making people and other countries realise that they ought perhaps to start taking responsibility for themselves and that many people in America have had enough of their governements feeling that they have the right to dictate what everywhere else in the world ought to do. He's really very very subversive, and that's why the Establishment so hate him.  

actually mate.. when it comes to Australia the US does not get a bum steer.. yet he still goes out of his way to dump us in with the rest of the world.. which really annoys us Aussies.. 

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Kismit
1 hour ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

This is what's good about him! He's making people and other countries realise that they ought perhaps to start taking responsibility for themselves and that many people in America have had enough of their governements feeling that they have the right to dictate what everywhere else in the world ought to do. He's really very very subversive, and that's why the Establishment so hate him.  

 His plan appears to be to monopolies the oil and gas to the best of his ability.  If you don't have those resources or access to those resources  he won't show you as much respect. This is of course just my simple observation.

 He is working from the perspective of a man in his 70's, and thinking about what made a dollar strong in the past. Unifying with countries controlling oil or willing to anex or invade for oil. The trouble is, he is doing it in a world that needs to think beyond yesterday and be planning for tomorrow. 

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GlitterRose
4 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Classic leftism. Shut up, I don't want to hear it.

People are sick of hearing complete bs, and it's served on the regular. 

When has anyone actually argued for open borders?

Only never. 

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GlitterRose
4 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

The Right never expects a politician to be anything but and Trump was their way to spit in the eye of the left. He's sort of their Cyrus of Persia; a pagan, but their kind of pagan. The suppression of free speech is a hallmark of classic fascism and it ain't the right up to their armpits in that. And no, Kismit, Trump is no King, it's the left who love crowning their politicians king, Camelot and all that. Republicans elect a chairman of the board. When the left's in office and promote their political agenda, it'd called progressive. When the right is in office and promotes theirs, it's called divisive. Trump is abrasive and boorish and I didn't vote for him, Still he does get a few things right, pertaining to European hypocrisy of criticizing him for wanting better relations with Russia while at the same time engaging in lucrative business deals of their own, with her. 

That's what the problem is.

People are willing to accept fascism just to p*** off people they don't like. 

And why don't they like them?

Well, because there has been an extremely well-funded propaganda campaign going on to get half of America to hate the other half.

It's an old game called divide and conquer, and people are falling for it, even though everyone should know better. 

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GlitterRose
6 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies "something not desirable"...In the case of a word like democracy, not only is there no agreed definition, but the attempt to make one is resisted from all sides. It is almost universally felt that when we call a country democratic we are praising it: consequently the defenders of every kind of regime claim that it is a democracy, and fear that they might have to stop using the word if it were tied down to any one meaning.”


George Orwell, Essays

Except that it does.

Fascism is the opposite of democracy. 

Some people would like to live that way, and I suggest going somewhere that isn't a democracy. 

I'd like to keep my freedom, thank you very much. 

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GlitterRose
3 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Not exactly , nice try though 

 

 

There are actually people on the right who are proponents of open borders...but of course they are fringe. 

It would be like us trying to claim (like Breitbart) that this is the mainstream Republican school of thought on the subject. 

(They actually ran an article claiming prominent Republicans were proponents of open borders).

It's just a way to slander people and get them talking about something other than the fact that our democracy is quickly sliding into something else. 

Edited by ChaosRose

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GlitterRose

Here's something really funny...

Trump continued: "In this case, the solution is clear. We will have to leave borders behind and go for global unity when it comes to financial stability."

The real-estate mogul concluded his op-ed by writing that the future of the US and Europe "depends on a cohesive global economy."

http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-2013-borders-global-economy-2016-10

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