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The Caspian Hare

Israel ban groups critical of IDF from school

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The Caspian Hare

https://12newsonline.com/israel-passes-law-to-ban-groups-critical-of-state-military-from-schools/

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JERUSALEM (Reuters) – Israel’s parliament passed a law on Tuesday that could see groups critical of government policies toward the Palestinians banned from entering Israeli schools and speaking with pupils.

The amendment to the education act grants new powers to Education Minister Naftali Bennett, head of the religious-nationalist Jewish Home party, to order schools to bar certain groups from giving lectures to students.

The legislation has been dubbed the “Breaking the Silence” law, a reference to the Israeli group of that name which collects and publishes testimony from Israeli veterans about the military’s treatment of Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and during conflicts with militants in Gaza.

Bennett has been critical of the organization along with other right-wing politicians who accuse the group of damaging Israel’s image abroad and putting soldiers and officials at risk of prosecution for alleged war crimes.

“Anyone who wanders around the world attacking IDF (Israel Defence Forces) soldiers, will not enter a school,” Bennett said in a statement.

 

 

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and then

It sounds like a very narrowly targeted law.  Good on 'em for standing against the weakening of the state of Israel from within.  For Israel to survive AS a Jewish state they will soon have to distance themselves from being as "Democratic".

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RAyMO
12 minutes ago, and then said:

For Israel to survive AS a Jewish state they will soon have to distance themselves from being as "Democratic".

How long can a state survive when it doesn't reflect its own demographics?

 

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
28 minutes ago, and then said:

It sounds like a very narrowly targeted law.  Good on 'em for standing against the weakening of the state of Israel from within.  For Israel to survive AS a Jewish state they will soon have to distance themselves from being as "Democratic".

As Israel is a secular democracy, do you honestly think that its okay to infringe on peoples rights for religious reasons ?

Are you advocating a theocracy ? It sure sounds like it.

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and then
1 hour ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

As Israel is a secular democracy, do you honestly think that its okay to infringe on peoples rights for religious reasons ?

Are you advocating a theocracy ? It sure sounds like it.

A Theocracy?  In Tel Aviv?  I've never been there but one only needs to read a bit of news about the town to know it would never be ruled by religious types of any kind.  I mean that a truly democratic system or even a Republic such as the U.S. allows too much freedom for dissent in a nation that has such determined enemies within its borders.  Israel is unique in that way and will have to make accommodation to survive.  The only "rights" I speak of infringing on is the right of people to undermine the very government they live under.  These are Leftists and they need to be controlled or purged if that state is to survive.  

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and then
1 hour ago, RAyMO said:

How long can a state survive when it doesn't reflect its own demographics?

 

It's their choice to promote the state as one of Jewish character.  IF they want that to continue, they will need to determine the correct course, legally, to take.  If they side with a purely representative government system then they cannot remain Jewish.  That is their choice, one way or another.

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Clockwork_Spirit
2 hours ago, and then said:

 I mean that a truly democratic system or even a Republic such as the U.S. allows too much freedom for dissent in a nation that has such determined enemies within its borders. 

So a ''democracy'' a la Recep Tayyip Erdogan?

The thing is, either you are democratic with all that implies (including freedom of thought and speech) or you are not.

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kartikg

Makes sense, no groups should be allowed to meet pupils and feed them with their propoganda. 

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Clockwork_Spirit
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, kartikg said:

Makes sense, no groups should be allowed to meet pupils and feed them with their propoganda. 

But the government can? Is that how it works?

Edited by Brother_Spirit
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and then
1 hour ago, Brother_Spirit said:

So a ''democracy'' a la Recep Tayyip Erdogan?

The thing is, either you are democratic with all that implies (including freedom of thought and speech) or you are not.

I agree.  The point is that if they wish to remain a state that is of primarily Jewish character then they cannot remain a true democracy in the conventional sense.  It's THEIR choice.

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RAyMO
5 hours ago, and then said:

That is their choice, one way or another.

Their choice, to the exclusion of others in the demographic who may at point in time be the majority?

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seanjo

Israel is constantly under attack, they can't do total democracy and survive, under those conditions. And take note, Israel is a Western democracy that, I believe, uses Proportional Representation and all of the citizens have representation. It is the only true democracy in that region.

It is also the only country in that region that allows a Gay Pride parade and you can be openly Gay.

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Clockwork_Spirit
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, seanjo said:

Israel is constantly under attack, they can't do total democracy and survive, under those conditions. And take note, Israel is a Western democracy that, I believe, uses Proportional Representation and all of the citizens have representation. It is the only true democracy in that region.

It is also the only country in that region that allows a Gay Pride parade and you can be openly Gay.

If you can't criticize the apparatus of the state than you only have the appearance of democracy.

 

Edited by Brother_Spirit
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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
9 hours ago, and then said:

A Theocracy?  In Tel Aviv?  I've never been there but one only needs to read a bit of news about the town to know it would never be ruled by religious types of any kind.

Are you being sarcastic here ? It's hard to know with you.

9 hours ago, and then said:

I mean that a truly democratic system or even a Republic such as the U.S. allows too much freedom for dissent in a nation that has such determined enemies within its borders.

So in order to protect them from their enemies you want them to become like their enemies ? :wacko:

9 hours ago, and then said:

Israel is unique in that way and will have to make accommodation to survive. 

They should hang on to what makes them unique, that is being a democracy, rather than become like their neighbors.

9 hours ago, and then said:

The only "rights" I speak of infringing on is the right of people to undermine the very government they live under.

If you only allow people to speak if they praise the government you are on the fast rack to fascism/theocracy. 

9 hours ago, and then said:

These are Leftists and they need to be controlled or purged if that state is to survive.  

We could put them in camps. I mean concentrate them so you know where they are. :blink:

Do you really think about what you read ?

6 hours ago, kartikg said:

Makes sense, no groups should be allowed to meet pupils and feed them with their propoganda. 

Only the government should do propaganda. Got it !

I wonder if you guys would feel the same if Israel had a socialist government ? 

9 hours ago, and then said:

It's their choice to promote the state as one of Jewish character. IF they want that to continue, they will need to determine the correct course, legally, to take.  If they side with a purely representative government system then they cannot remain Jewish.  That is their choice, one way or another.

It is their choice and should not be forced upon them by purging the opposition. 

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seanjo
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Brother_Spirit said:

If you can't criticize the apparatus of the state than you only have the appearance of democracy.

 

You can criticise it, just not in schools. And this very narrow policy does not define democracy in Israel.

Edited by seanjo
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seanjo

Funny all the critics of Israel have nothing to say about the blatant brainwashing Arab kids go through at school.

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
28 minutes ago, seanjo said:

Funny all the critics of Israel have nothing to say about the blatant brainwashing Arab kids go through at school.

This thread is about the Israeli government infringing on their citizens right to express their opinion, so why would we mention it ? 

This is a fine example of whataboutism. Don't adress the actual issue, instead try to make it about something else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

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seanjo
27 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

This thread is about the Israeli government infringing on their citizens right to express their opinion, so why would we mention it ? 

This is a fine example of whataboutism. Don't adress the actual issue, instead try to make it about something else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

I have addressed it in my posts above, and I have explained that it does not define democracy in Israel, this is a defensive move, not an anti-democratic move.

 

And it seems all these types of post are about Israel infringing something and never the Palestinians infringing something...why is that?

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, seanjo said:

I have addressed it in my posts above, and I have explained that it does not define democracy in Israel, this is a defensive move, not an anti-democratic move.

As I have explained I think it is a wrong move. In a democracy it should be allowed to present a differing opinion.

Quote

And it seems all these types of post are about Israel infringing something and never the Palestinians infringing something...why is that?

This thread isn't about Palestinians is it ? 

A more interesting question is why people assume that if you have any critisism of Israel you are automatically anti Israel ? 

It might come as a surprise to you but I'm not pro Palestinians, nor am I anti Israel. To me both parties leadership are acting like petulant children and the people who suffer are, as usual, the ordinary Israeli and Palestinian citizens.

Edited by Noteverythingisaconspiracy
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Black Red Devil
2 hours ago, seanjo said:

I have addressed it in my posts above, and I have explained that it does not define democracy in Israel, this is a defensive move, not an anti-democratic move.

 

And it seems all these types of post are about Israel infringing something and never the Palestinians infringing something...why is that?

Banning freedom of speech and expression IS anti-democratic.  If you want to talk about the Palestinians start a topic but this one's about about Israeli "Democracy".

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seanjo
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Black Red Devil said:

Banning freedom of speech and expression IS anti-democratic.  If you want to talk about the Palestinians start a topic but this one's about about Israeli "Democracy".

It's banning people going into schools, not banning free speech. I know you want to make so much more of it.

 

Would you let anyone go into schools and talk to kids?

Edited by seanjo

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Clockwork_Spirit
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, seanjo said:

You can criticise it, just not in schools. And this very narrow policy does not define democracy in Israel.

So in schools, where the people learn? Seems like the best place to ban if you want to discourage any critical thinking about the state.

Edited by Brother_Spirit

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seanjo
1 hour ago, Brother_Spirit said:

So in schools, where the people learn? Seems like the best place to ban if you want to discourage any critical thinking about the state.

Israel isn't just another country it is at war constantly because of the surrounding Arabs, it has a right to defend itself and that right extends to making sure people don't undermine the very military force that keeps them safe.

I'll ask you, would you let anyone talk to kids in school?

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Clockwork_Spirit
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, seanjo said:

Israel isn't just another country it is at war constantly because of the surrounding Arabs, it has a right to defend itself and that right extends to making sure people don't undermine the very military force that keeps them safe.

So in order to protect it's identity, Israel must become something other than a democracy?

Quote

I'll ask you, would you let anyone talk to kids in school?

I'm of the view that education is about thinking critically.and that it's also about hearing people you don’t agree with.

High school/ college students should learn about other views. It's not paid for by the state but NGOs who take their time to give those lectures.

Edited by Brother_Spirit

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seanjo
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Brother_Spirit said:

So in order to protect it's identity, Israel must become something other than a democracy?

I'm of the view that education is about thinking critically.and that it's also about hearing people you don’t agree with.

High school/ college students should learn about other views. It's not paid for by the state but NGOs who take their time to give those lectures.

It's not affecting their democracy, it's school kids, not voters, your hyperbole is silly. 


So you'd let anyone go to a school and talk about anything? Would you let a holocaust denier go and make their case in a school? Would you allow a KKK member to go and give a talk on joining their 'club'?

 

Edited by seanjo

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