lost_shaman Posted July 23, 2018 #26 Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said: Yes, lets all follow the US's example, spending a crude 900 billion on the military, while the US middle class, social services as well as general infrastructure is reaching 3rd world levels.. Most of this non-sense about infrastructure comes from the east coast where liberal blue states are spending most of their money on welfare instead of fixing their old bridges. These states need to fix their own bridges, most of the rest of the country doesn't have this problem. 42 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said: The Military Industrial Complex is our friend, and feeding it at unprecented levels is in our own interests! Its absolutely necessary, especially in these volatile times, everybody wants to take our sh*.. keep America from becoming great again. Even after we tried to give the ME natives democracy, striving to force peace and stability in the region! Let's be clear, your countries were all involved in this as well. 42 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said: Yes! Eventhough we have employed this strategem on numerous occasions in the ME region, and eventhough it has become clear it is neither helping the local people nor based on honest intentions, we shall blindly copy the latest anti Iran rhetoric like we were born yesterday. Maybe you were born yesterday because you obviously did not hear Rouhani's speech yesterday were he told his country that Iran was incapable of co-operating with the West (Yes, that's you too) because Iran is an Islamic Nation. He then threatened the U.S. with war and also threatened to cut off the Straight of Hormuz to all shipping which would mean no oil for you guy's in Euro-land!!! Here in Texas we are literally cutting back oil production because there is so much we need new pipelines to move it!!! Counting Texas (3) as it's own country and we are now the third largest producer only behind Saudi Arabia (1) and Russia (2). By this metric the rest of the U.S. (4)(excluding Texas) would come in forth. Edited July 23, 2018 by lost_shaman 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Caspian Hare Posted July 23, 2018 #27 Share Posted July 23, 2018 1 hour ago, lost_shaman said: You forgot... Obama: Let me pay you 480 million in cash to sign the worst non-treaty ever negotiated. Well ... don't know what else could have been demanded from Iran, the deal allowed pretty intrusive inspections. The current confrontation seems unnecessary As to the people of Iran they seem of two minds, one one hand chaffing under religious rule but also not fond of the US when sanctions make life miserable again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Caspian Hare Posted July 23, 2018 #28 Share Posted July 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Captain Risky said: good thing the west has Trump and his formidable array of mental powers to protect us from those nutters. go Trump! He's the bull in the China shop ... sometimes you want a panther but what you get is a bull ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_shaman Posted July 23, 2018 #29 Share Posted July 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, The Caspian Hare said: Well ... don't know what else could have been demanded from Iran, the deal allowed pretty intrusive inspections. So your idea of what constitutes "pretty intrusive inspections" is having to give Iran a months notice before inspectors can show up? Because that's what that lame deal says. And this excludes Military bases!! 5 minutes ago, The Caspian Hare said: As to the people of Iran they seem of two minds, one one hand chaffing under religious rule but also not fond of the US when sanctions make life miserable again. They have to figure that out for themselves. The sanctions are on their rulers not them per se. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaeton80 Posted July 23, 2018 #30 Share Posted July 23, 2018 12 minutes ago, lost_shaman said: Most of this non-sense about infrastructure comes from the east coast where liberal blue states are spending most of their money on welfare instead of fixing their old bridges. These states need to fix their own bridges, most of the rest of the country doesn't have this problem. Yes, and the middle class is doing better then ever, isnt it. And even if it isnt, its always good to lavish the MIC in hard earned taxpayer dollars, because its in the US citizen's interest.. the foreign (interventionalist) policy / wars of agression we were forced to employ proves that! Its a much safer world, now more than ever! Let's be clear, your countries were all involved in this as well. After being lied to and deceived by your government as well as your 'trusted media outlets', youre quite right (nobody is claiming other Western governments are excempt of corruption, arent furthering corporatist policies as well). Maybe you were born yesterday because you obviously did not hear Rouhani's speech yesterday were he told his country that Iran was incapable of co-operating with the West (Yes, that's you too) because Iran is an Islamic Nation. He then threatened the U.S. with war and also threatened to cut off the Straight of Hormuz to all shipping which would mean no oil for you guy's in Euro-land!!! Here in Texas we are literally cutting back oil production because there is so much we need new pipelines to move it!!! Counting Texas as it's own country and we are now the third largest producer only behind Saudi Arabia and Russia. Really, care to cite this? He threatened the US with war did he.. You mean after the US has done everything to seclude and damage Iran while beating the drums of war beforehand? The audacity. Dude, get a grip of reality why not. You cannot bully a nation, agressively demanding its submission, spouting the usual demonizing lies, demanding regime change, issuing words of war, to subsequently cry about such a nation reacting in a similar fashion. This goes for the EU, China, Russia, Syria, and Iran. In contradiction to popular belief, it isnt these nations or unions that pose an existential threat to the United States of America, but people like yourselves do (and your continuous support of enemies inside the gates). Sad thing is, when you realize this fact it will probably be too little too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_shaman Posted July 23, 2018 #31 Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said: Yes, and the middle class is doing better then ever, isnt it. And even if it isnt, its always good to lavish the MIC in hard earned taxpayer dollars, because its in the US citizen's interest.. the foreign (interventionalist) policy / wars of agression we were forced to employ proves that! Its a much safer world, now more than ever! No. Your part of the world is more dangerous than ever, but you have to blame that on the goofy people you elect (which no-one else can even name because we don't care with the exception of "Momma" Merkle). Edited July 23, 2018 by lost_shaman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_shaman Posted July 23, 2018 #32 Share Posted July 23, 2018 12 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said: Really, care to cite this? Sure I don't mind. Texas to pass Iraq and Iran as world's No. 3 oil powerhouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted July 23, 2018 #33 Share Posted July 23, 2018 2 hours ago, lost_shaman said: If LEGO-Land only spends 1.6% on it's defense like Germany then I think we will be just fine! They are everywhere and if you have kids they are liable to ambush you in the dark Ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_shaman Posted July 23, 2018 #34 Share Posted July 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, Tatetopa said: They are everywhere and if you have kids they are liable to ambush you in the dark Ouch. Meh, my daughters were more into clothes, makeup, and piercings. They are grown now. The only LEGO's in my house are mine! They don't dare attack me at night or "Fire and Fury"!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted July 23, 2018 #35 Share Posted July 23, 2018 I think he said "mother of all battles" if we go to war or "mother of all peace", if we get along. I thought Mother of all battles didn't work out so well for Iraq. Iran is a bit different though. In 2002, the Pentagon spent $250 million on a classified U.S. war game called Millennium Challenge. The game envisioned the U.S. Navy facing a coordinated Iranian assault in the Persian Gulf using swarming boats and missiles. The results were so devastating the exercise was suspended and the parameters controversially changed to ensure a U.S. victory: The Iranians sank a total of 16 American ships ― including an aircraft carrier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002 It is a serious matter to consider, not a cake walk. It will be costly for the world, but Texas should prosper if that is consolation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_shaman Posted July 23, 2018 #36 Share Posted July 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, Tatetopa said: I think he said "mother of all battles" if we go to war or "mother of all peace", if we get along. I thought Mother of all battles didn't work out so well for Iraq. Iran is a bit different though. In 2002, the Pentagon spent $250 million on a classified U.S. war game called Millennium Challenge. The game envisioned the U.S. Navy facing a coordinated Iranian assault in the Persian Gulf using swarming boats and missiles. The results were so devastating the exercise was suspended and the parameters controversially changed to ensure a U.S. victory: The Iranians sank a total of 16 American ships ― including an aircraft carrier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002 It is a serious matter to consider, not a cake walk. It will be costly for the world, but Texas should prosper if that is consolation. Ok. Let's be clear... what he said was specifically. “war with Iran is the mother of all wars” And again, as I said before here, if Iran cuts off the Straight of Hormuz as they threatened to do yesterday then the rest of the world will literally be begging the U.S. to do something. If we don't? Well you guy's in Euro-Land are out of oil in a few months. It's that simple. And your best response to this is taking snipes at President Trump who is standing up for the world and saying literally "don't threaten us". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaeton80 Posted July 23, 2018 #37 Share Posted July 23, 2018 41 minutes ago, lost_shaman said: Sure I don't mind. Texas to pass Iraq and Iran as world's No. 3 oil powerhouse. Then please quote what was requested. Just in case you didnt understand; I was referring to: " Rouhani's speech yesterday were he told his country that Iran was incapable of co-operating with the West (Yes, that's you too) because Iran is an Islamic Nation." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaeton80 Posted July 23, 2018 #38 Share Posted July 23, 2018 53 minutes ago, lost_shaman said: No. Your part of the world is more dangerous than ever, but you have to blame that on the goofy people you elect (which no-one else can even name because we don't care with the exception of "Momma" Merkle). I'd highly doubt if thesame ME chaos would have ensued if the US hadnt swayed everyone in the West to follow suit. It was US policy which was supported and followed, like we used to support any and everything your nation said and did. But you just keep deflecting all these facts confirming your nation as the leader in these wars of agression based on deceit, keep believing Trump is your saviour, Israel, the MIC and 'US corporations' are your friend.. and just sit back and wait 'til America is great again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_shaman Posted July 23, 2018 #39 Share Posted July 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said: Then please quote what was requested. Just in case you didnt understand; I was referring to: " Rouhani's speech yesterday were he told his country that Iran was incapable of co-operating with the West (Yes, that's you too) because Iran is an Islamic Nation." I heard him say that yesterday when the news was covering the full speech, but since then most have only reported on excerpts from that speech that we have seen quoted here and not that specific part. Until someone posts the entire speech then I don't have a link to that as eveyone is covering the other things he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_shaman Posted July 23, 2018 #40 Share Posted July 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said: I'd highly doubt if thesame ME chaos would have ensued if the US hadnt swayed everyone in the West to follow suit. It was US policy which was supported and followed, like we used to support any and everything your nation said and did. But you just keep deflecting all these facts confirming your nation as the leader in these wars of agression based on deceit, keep believing Trump is your saviour, Israel, the MIC and 'US corporations' are your friend.. and just sit back and wait 'til America is great again. Ok. I can sit here and wait for America to be even more greater than ever. What are you "waiting" for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toast Posted July 23, 2018 #41 Share Posted July 23, 2018 3 hours ago, lost_shaman said: Sorry if my posts trigger you Euro's but the U.S. actually maintains a standing Military unlike you, that have no choice but to rely on the U.S. for your defense. I as an European dont feel triggered at all and I dont care if the USA is spending much more money into to Military than we do. If you are ok with it, fine for you. And fine for the shareholders of Lockheed Martin and friends as well. As my government is more interested in long-term targets like education, environment protection and renewable energies, our both focus is different but your country has to pay the bill later on. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_shaman Posted July 23, 2018 #42 Share Posted July 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, toast said: I as an European dont feel triggered at all and I dont care if the USA is spending much more money into to Military than we do. If you are ok with it, fine for you. And fine for the shareholders of Lockheed Martin and friends as well. As my government is more interested in long-term targets like education, environment protection and renewable energies, our both focus is different but your country has to pay the bill later on. You clearly don't understand. We (USA) do all those things and still spend twice as much on our Military as the EU does. It's not a matter of either or, we have the money to do all those things and more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_shaman Posted July 23, 2018 #43 Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) For example the USA also basically props up the UN with about 50% of it's funds. The UN would cease to exist if not for the USA's money! Not to mention billions and billions we spend giving away money to other countries in "Foreign Aid" as a gift every single year. The sad thing is despite giving so much to the rest of the world, you guy's just think we owe you! It's actually better for us to give your governments money than watch you spiral into dept due to your own welfare state policies that you can't afford!!! Edited July 23, 2018 by lost_shaman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toast Posted July 23, 2018 #44 Share Posted July 23, 2018 1 minute ago, lost_shaman said: You clearly don't understand. We (USA) do all those things ... but without priority. Quote ... and still spend twice as much on our Military as the EU does. It's not a matter of either or, we have the money to do all those things and more. Its your choice to do so. If you want to play Bonanza, do it but dont blame other countries for having a much lower or no level of imperialistic targets and or paranoia. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toast Posted July 23, 2018 #45 Share Posted July 23, 2018 13 minutes ago, lost_shaman said: It's actually better for us to give your governments money than watch you spiral into dept due to your own welfare state policies that you can't afford!!! What countries are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_shaman Posted July 23, 2018 #46 Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) Say whatever you want, but you'd be crying in despair if we ever just went back to being isolationist like we were before WWII. If you know it or not your Governments need us much more than "we" need you. Edited July 23, 2018 by lost_shaman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_shaman Posted July 23, 2018 #47 Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, toast said: What countries are you talking about? To be fair "we" (USA) doesn't give that much to the EU because "we" are providing you with a standing Military via NATO. So you don't even bother with a true Military other than supplementing the U.S. Military in Europe. But if "we" were not acting as your personal standing Military, you would collectively have to spend about 300 Billion EU's a year to make up for what we provide. Non-NATO countries get most of the hand-outs we just give away. So think of it this way, without NATO the EU would need to spend about 10 Billion a year for each EU member to make up the difference if the U.S. were not around providing your Military Security for you. Edited July 23, 2018 by lost_shaman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_shaman Posted July 23, 2018 #48 Share Posted July 23, 2018 15 minutes ago, lost_shaman said: So think of it this way, without NATO the EU would need to spend about 10 Billion a year for each EU member to make up the difference if the U.S. were not around providing your Military Security for you B.. Bu.. But Trump's a Drumfpkin... Oh ok. Guess you win on that. Hope Iran doesn't cut off your oil supply this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_shaman Posted July 23, 2018 #49 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Quote In the speech at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library and Museum, Pompeo castigated Iran’s political, judicial and military leaders, too, accusing several by name of participating in widespread corruption. He also said the government has “heartlessly repressed its own people’s human rights, dignity and fundamental freedoms.” He said despite poor treatment by their leaders, “the proud Iranian people are not staying silent about their government’s many abuses,” Pompeo said. “And the United States under President Trump will not stay silent either. In light of these protests and 40 years of regime tyranny, I have a message for the people of Iran: The United States hears you,” he said. “The United States supports you. The United States is with you.” https://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-dismisses-trump-threat-says-he-wont-dare-attack/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted July 23, 2018 #50 Share Posted July 23, 2018 So is this a "Red Line/Line in the Sand" or just an all caps rage rant on twitter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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