Religion and sigils?

[Stubbly_Dooright]

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@Relam
Do religions have sigils behind them? I know sigil is not some harry potter magic but i thought that it is the reason why they have so much power over masses. Every religion is represented as some symbol,and people give them "energy".

I think this is interesting.  

Symbols, signs, and such, where something suggestive can have such influence. Well, I have perceived it anyways. On this thought, I have always thought all religions have their traditional and ritual influences. I mean, (and folks forgive my ignorance of such practices and understandings behind varying religions) the prayer in varying religions, even the word 'Amen' seems to me, to have a powerful meaning, when I have observed so many speak it after prayer and so forth. I wouldn't know, growing up secular and marrying secular and such. *shrugs* 

Though, I feel, it does go beyond religions, and it seems to me, other things seem to have a 'power' behind it. Sports and entertainment groups, so to speak. The flag of countries, seem to have a 'power' behind it, and a meaning that speaks it. 

That is if, we're talking about the magic of believing something behind it, or there is some feeling, there really is some miraculous power behind these things. I mean, the OP did speak of seeing a 'Harry Potter' thought to it, right? (I could be wrong. I would understand if the OP corrects me.  ) 

Would it be understandable, if we saw and discussed the differences to believing the power behind things, and the power of how it influences? 

Heck, memes seem to say a lot too. (Could there be a power behind them?) 

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Btw This thought came to me while i was sitting on toilet.

A lot could be said, about the 'thinking room'. Or, so I heard it being described. The 'library' was another.     

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Tell me if im wrong,maybe its just shhitttyy thought.

Well, thanks for your puntastic thought there,      

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@XenoFish

  On 7/23/2018 at 5:01 PM, Relam said:

Yeah we are but i peeked little bit in that occultism thing and its quite interesting phylosophy. I know nothing about it and i read somewhere that sigil can have negative effects too so when you wish something it can come through bad way too. Is that true?

Sigils are a symbolic representation of an idea, wish, or desire. They are monograms of thought. Depending on what you believe they have an effect on the psyche equal to the emotional weight you put behind them. Similar to someone painting a pentagram in an abandon house will produce "spooky vibes". The house isn't haunted but the idea of it being so affects the subjective experience of those within. If you craft and fire a sigil that is based on the desire to have a new job, you'll notice opportunities more. 

I have found, that sometimes, just the mere thought of something, (if one is susceptible to it, ................. and I could be  ) can have a person assume something happens afterward. Yeah, I feel I am very superstitious. Even to the point of grabbing a plastic glow in the dark skeleton that was discarded in our backyard, (from way back from Halloween) and decided to just throw it in the trash, because stepping on it constantly was making really bad juju happening. (This during the 'I locked my sole keys in my trunk thing, and a lot of those I knew were passing away such luck lately.   ) and as soon I did that, the locksmith got my keys out of the trunk. 

granted, that doesn't mean, well to me, that what I did worked, but I tend to fall under that............................... 'spell'. I even associate varying words, and 'symbols' to actions, not even associated to religious, spiritual, and other type of luck thinking. (Yeah, I'm a bit chaotic.  ) 

But, my point is agreeing with you, I think sometimes things can be so powerfully suggestive, that I wonder if the brain can make it happen, by controlling our bodies. *shrugs* 

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@Relam

On 7/24/2018 at 5:07 AM, XenoFish said:

Psychology of logo design

Corporate Sigils

Modern magick is in the power of suggestion. 

 

Good info there.

Dark side of this stuff sounds crazy. How is possible to send spell on someone while drawing sigil on their picture and burn it? I am skeptical about this.

I have always heard how buildings were sometimes built, with the fear of the number 13. To the point that when it came to numbering the floors, the 13th floor was labeled the 14th floor.  

I personally never been in a building, ( or noticed it at those times ) that had that, until a hotel in Canada we stayed at years ago. Every time we went in the elevator, on the floor button panel in it, it would show first 12th floor, and right after it, the 14th floor, and of course, that was really the 13th floor. Heck, when I was a head cashier in my previous job, I had customers who, when they were told their total was $6.66, they ended up buying something small to make that number go away.     

I feel, that despite whether there is some truth to symbols and such actually power behind it, there is power behind it to send some people to fear it. I would think, that is some strong power there, when it comes to suggestion.   

 

[Stubbly_Dooright]

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@XenoFish

3 hours ago, Relam said:

How is possible to send spell on someone while drawing sigil on their picture and burn it? 

Its not. That's one of the pitfalls to magick. Such an act leads only to confirmation bias on your part. Now, if they knew you "cursed" them, this could lead to a case of self fulfilling prophecy. That is if they believed in such things. The power of the magician lays in suggestion and theatrics. In superstitious cultures the idea of a spell worker cursing/blessing you can induce a nocebo/placebo effect. 

Lets say I gave you a stone inscribed with sigils, told you it was blessed by the most high goddess, that who ever possessed it would have good fortune/luck. That stone is just a rock. It acts as a mental anchor (placebo) that induces a specific mindset. This mindset will allow you to unconsciously create "good luck". 

If you think I cast a spell in good favor for you. It isn't anything I've done for you. Its your thoughts that bring about the change you desire. Ideas grown.

Sugar pill!!!!!    

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@internetperson

I think you guys are looking too far into the whole logo thing. I've been working in the sign biz for decades there's nothing to 'get' about logos. They're designed by clients in collaboration with us, no wizardry involved. 

Isn't that what advertising and the signs want to do? They're there to 'grab' and they use, I feel, this type of thinking to get that if necessary. Right? 

 

[XenoFish]

The symbols themselves dont have power. It's the meaning you put behind them that does.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

I probably should mention, that my particular unique belief, has them too. The thing is, they're are so personal to me, I don't wish to mention them. They're just powerful for me, and probably a need within me and spiritual health, that they are personal to me. 

Which makes me wonder, (and beg to question maybe  ) how power something can be suggestive. But, I wonder, if there is a dual role here, in the minds of some. That can something be suggestive and also have some kind of subjective evidence to some (remember, I said 'suggestive' evidence, not objective  ) Meaning, some might actually feel strongly and maybe right into thinking, (note I said 'maybe' ) that some words do actually work.   (meaning, there maybe some 'magic or miraculous' effect that happens) 

Again, if this is just my thinking in this, it's ok. I understand. But, I find this an interesting thing to reflect and discuss. And in the right forum of this board to discuss it.   

Edited July 25, 2018 by Stubbly_Dooright
To clarify more...............

[XenoFish]

5 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I probably should mention, that my particular unique belief, has them too. The thing is, they're are so personal to me, I don't wish to mention them. They're just powerful for me, and probably a need within me and spiritual health, that they are personal to me.

I can put this to you in a very easy way. If you look at the baby picture of your kid/s. Emotions are typically going to swell. This image (the baby picture) has emotions, thoughts and feelings attached to it.  You may very well feel a "mothers pride". Which is good. I wouldn't feel much emotion, maybe "Ah, cute." That shows the difference in meaning between us. In case of corporate sigil and religious sigil (logos). The emotional weight is subjective and created. Seeing the McD's sign might make you hungry or sick. That depends entirely on your personal experience with them. You associate that image with a feeling.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

4 hours ago, XenoFish said:

9 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I probably should mention, that my particular unique belief, has them too. The thing is, they're are so personal to me, I don't wish to mention them. They're just powerful for me, and probably a need within me and spiritual health, that they are personal to me.

I can put this to you in a very easy way. If you look at the baby picture of your kid/s. Emotions are typically going to swell. This image (the baby picture) has emotions, thoughts and feelings attached to it.  You may very well feel a "mothers pride". Which is good. I wouldn't feel much emotion, maybe "Ah, cute." That shows the difference in meaning between us. In case of corporate sigil and religious sigil (logos). The emotional weight is subjective and created. Seeing the McD's sign might make you hungry or sick. That depends entirely on your personal experience with them. You associate that image with a feeling.

I am not going to disagree with you on that. Dealing with signs, and such, and personal experiences with them. I feel, I am a sucker for them. Speaking of McDonald's, I do have a string of experiences with McD's, having that be my first minimum wage job, with two brothers and sister already working for the company, if not the store I worked in. Plus, years later, in another state, I worked for a couple more in various positions. Anyhow, you could say, I have an emotional tie to them, and the sign, and such could do that.   (If not good and bad experiences.) Though, once the McDonald's sign gif was poste here, I immediately wanted to talk about one McDonald's I worked at, where the sign was taking down! (The store stayed, and is still there. ) Some property rule said for them to take it down.       Talk about what signs can do to people!     

Though, going back to what you said, I guess I wasn't explaining fully my point. Well, I think you're right again, on my feelings of possessive thoughts towards my 'signs' and such, well, it might be the same as like being a parent. (In which I am.) But, there is more to it. Part of it, is a part of the rules of my belief. (Let's just say, it follows the 'proselytizing is wrong' rule, and this helps that stay true.) Plus, I find a personalness (I know, weird way of saying it.) to them, and feel, it's unique and costumed made for me.  (And probably embarrassed by them too.) <--------- Not going to explain that either. *shrugs* 

Well, my point is, I'm not going to dismiss your point of protectiveness to it, but to me, it's more. But, I share my thoughts here, because I feel I get how signs, words, and such (sigils as it's put *shrugs* ) play a big part in them, including mine. But, yes, they play a part in lots of things not religious too, in my feeling. 

I'm just not have really reflected on this about this part before, and I think it's interesting to think about. I consider the OP's point or thought of bringing up Harry Potter and their 'curses' and I think of 'Abra Cadabra' and how it always seems we need some sort of something to shout, to get something started. Like, 'party animals, commence partying!!!!'

*shrugs*

[+Not A Rockstar]

I think I get your point, @Stubbly_Dooright and what you are dancing closer to is the idea that some folks can empower a symbol or action enough to give it some extra "real". Mojo, magic, etc.

You can have your symbol painted on a wall and if it means nothing to me it will do nothing by being there. Graffiti. But, it is like a matrix of ideas and can energize for someone who sees it and has a meaning they apply to it. That recognition is your "abracadabra". 

[Guyver]

3 hours ago, Not A Rockstar said:

I think I get your point, @Stubbly_Dooright and what you are dancing closer to is the idea that some folks can empower a symbol or action enough to give it some extra "real". Mojo, magic, etc.

You can have your symbol painted on a wall and if it means nothing to me it will do nothing by being there. Graffiti. But, it is like a matrix of ideas and can energize for someone who sees it and has a meaning they apply to it. That recognition is your "abracadabra". 

Right.  Life is what you make it.  

[internetperson]

20 hours ago, XenoFish said:

If your logo doesn't stick in the minds of consumers, no one makes money.

Hell, I do. Want that sign then ya gotta pay!

Not all companies really have logos, especially smaller contractors. A logo isn't very important in terms of business. It's a marketing tool for sure but even then it's not the end all. If someone needs a product/solution they search google or ask a friend (word of mouth). Nobody sifts through images to find a company they need. 

Regarding logo design it's a more or less a straightforward process. A lot of it is common sense like if you have a fleet of white vehicles then don't request white vinyl with your contact info. 

I agree (I think, only skimmed the thread but have read your posts in the past re this topic) with what you're saying regarding sigils, their use being unique to oneself and all that. I just draw the line at marketing. 

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, internetperson said:

Hell, I do. Want that sign then ya gotta pay!

Not all companies really have logos, especially smaller contractors. A logo isn't very important in terms of business. It's a marketing tool for sure but even then it's not the end all. If someone needs a product/solution they search google or ask a friend (word of mouth). Nobody sifts through images to find a company they need. 

Regarding logo design it's a more or less a straightforward process. A lot of it is common sense like if you have a fleet of white vehicles then don't request white vinyl with your contact info. 

I agree (I think, only skimmed the thread but have read your posts in the past re this topic) with what you're saying regarding sigils, their use being unique to oneself and all that. I just draw the line at marketing. 

The ideas are similar but different. The intention and purpose, etc. 

[XenoFish]

Here's some additional reading.

http://www.faena.com/aleph/articles/what-is-magic-aleister-crowley-explains/

[XenoFish]

@Stubbly_Dooright

Its a real thing.

[Relam]

2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Here's some additional reading.

http://www.faena.com/aleph/articles/what-is-magic-aleister-crowley-explains/

What is in context that "demons helped solomon to build a temple" ?

[XenoFish]

11 minutes ago, Relam said:

What is in context that "demons helped solomon to build a temple" ?

Demons are ideas. Its like asking yourself a question. Then some moment later the answer comes to mind.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

13 hours ago, Not A Rockstar said:

I think I get your point, @Stubbly_Dooright and what you are dancing closer to is the idea that some folks can empower a symbol or action enough to give it some extra "real". Mojo, magic, etc.

You can have your symbol painted on a wall and if it means nothing to me it will do nothing by being there. Graffiti. But, it is like a matrix of ideas and can energize for someone who sees it and has a meaning they apply to it. That recognition is your "abracadabra". 

Pretty much. Though, sometimes, I do feel there is some form of 'power' behind them.   I just say this, in how I look at it. I don't expect anyone else to adapt this thinking, and I like to think I can entertain the point of views of others. I see what Xeno is saying, or I think I do. (my usual cognitive curse keeping me at bay again.  ) 

But yes, there is a form of 'comfort' and of a form of being rallied, behind words. I feel and get the same way to things, pictures, songs, when they play or form, or are before me, so I get 'nostalgic' or 'idyllic'. 

But, I sometimes feel, that certain words or things, do seem to have some form of power behind it. I feel, certain things happen when confronted with them. That is, if I understand Xeno too on that. (and also entertain the idea, that it's also very coincidental.) 

I think, this thread is a good idea to compare the two thoughts behind words, and see the difference and if there is a 'power' behind it. 

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@Guyver

 13 hours ago, Not A Rockstar said:

I think I get your point, @Stubbly_Dooright and what you are dancing closer to is the idea that some folks can empower a symbol or action enough to give it some extra "real". Mojo, magic, etc.

You can have your symbol painted on a wall and if it means nothing to me it will do nothing by being there. Graffiti. But, it is like a matrix of ideas and can energize for someone who sees it and has a meaning they apply to it. That recognition is your "abracadabra". 

Right.  Life is what you make it.  

Well, I have always definitely feel that way, and have felt I have practiced that immensely. 

So, I think that's a part of it. 

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@internetperson

On 7/25/2018 at 10:49 AM, XenoFish said:

If your logo doesn't stick in the minds of consumers, no one makes money.

Hell, I do. Want that sign then ya gotta pay!

Not all companies really have logos, especially smaller contractors. A logo isn't very important in terms of business. It's a marketing tool for sure but even then it's not the end all. If someone needs a product/solution they search google or ask a friend (word of mouth). Nobody sifts through images to find a company they need. 

Regarding logo design it's a more or less a straightforward process. A lot of it is common sense like if you have a fleet of white vehicles then don't request white vinyl with your contact info. 

I agree (I think, only skimmed the thread but have read your posts in the past re this topic) with what you're saying regarding sigils, their use being unique to oneself and all that. I just draw the line at marketing. 

I wonder, do you feel that this carries over to sigils and such? 

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@XenoFish

Here's some additional reading.

http://www.faena.com/aleph/articles/what-is-magic-aleister-crowley-explains/

Reading that, it has reminded me of a book I purchased a long time ago, and a particular New Age store down the hill from where I lived at the time. I believe I remember it being something on White Witchcraft and how it's describing how it ties into nature and that the power itself uses nature to be able to change the course of things, but of course for the betterment and the good of everything. 

I think of how white witches are after that, from what I read. So, I wonder at what one can see as magic, and if it's a form of working with nature. 

Though, Xeno, I'm still confused (normal for me............ possibly give me a few to get it) of your points. Are you saying, there might be 'magic' involved and involved in memes, sigils, and words? 

Though, I feel, (and me going down the path of how complicated the English language is) when thinking behind the word 'magic' it could mean various things. But, to boil it down to two things, either we think of 'magicians' like David Copperfield type of people. And usually, there isn't a real magic behind it, there is usual tricks and illusions going on. 

Though, the possible of magic as being real, and then there is some reflection of that. I feel, there could be a possible reason that it is, I'm just on the fence of it. This based on my own experiences and how I see it. 

[XenoFish]

I'll go into detail later stubbly. I'm at work. 

[XenoFish]

3 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Reading that, it has reminded me of a book I purchased a long time ago, and a particular New Age store down the hill from where I lived at the time. I believe I remember it being something on White Witchcraft and how it's describing how it ties into nature and that the power itself uses nature to be able to change the course of things, but of course for the betterment and the good of everything. 

I think of how white witches are after that, from what I read. So, I wonder at what one can see as magic, and if it's a form of working with nature. 

Though, Xeno, I'm still confused (normal for me............ possibly give me a few to get it) of your points. Are you saying, there might be 'magic' involved and involved in memes, sigils, and words? 

Though, I feel, (and me going down the path of how complicated the English language is) when thinking behind the word 'magic' it could mean various things. But, to boil it down to two things, either we think of 'magicians' like David Copperfield type of people. And usually, there isn't a real magic behind it, there is usual tricks and illusions going on. 

Though, the possible of magic as being real, and then there is some reflection of that. I feel, there could be a possible reason that it is, I'm just on the fence of it. This based on my own experiences and how I see it. 

Magick as defined by Crowley is the art and science of creating change in conformity to will. That any intentional act is one of magick. This is due to it actually creating a change. Alan Moore defined magick as creating a change in consciousness. Both are right. So magick is real, but it's mundane. Fat guy/gal that loses weight has performed a 'magical act", this act is one based on their will. They made a choice and created the change they desired. If doing a ritual, chanting a spell, or creating and firing a sigil allows you to create a change in consciousness, then this act motivates you to create an external change, that is magick. It is immaterial to the existence/non-existence of spirits/demons/angels, etc. So long as the act creates a change within the person. Think of magick as Ye Olde Self-Help.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

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@XenoFish

8 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Reading that, it has reminded me of a book I purchased a long time ago, and a particular New Age store down the hill from where I lived at the time. I believe I remember it being something on White Witchcraft and how it's describing how it ties into nature and that the power itself uses nature to be able to change the course of things, but of course for the betterment and the good of everything. 

I think of how white witches are after that, from what I read. So, I wonder at what one can see as magic, and if it's a form of working with nature. 

Though, Xeno, I'm still confused (normal for me............ possibly give me a few to get it) of your points. Are you saying, there might be 'magic' involved and involved in memes, sigils, and words? 

Though, I feel, (and me going down the path of how complicated the English language is) when thinking behind the word 'magic' it could mean various things. But, to boil it down to two things, either we think of 'magicians' like David Copperfield type of people. And usually, there isn't a real magic behind it, there is usual tricks and illusions going on. 

Though, the possible of magic as being real, and then there is some reflection of that. I feel, there could be a possible reason that it is, I'm just on the fence of it. This based on my own experiences and how I see it. 

Magick as defined by Crowley is the art and science of creating change in conformity to will. That any intentional act is one of magick. This is due to it actually creating a change. Alan Moore defined magick as creating a change in consciousness. Both are right. So magick is real, but it's mundane. Fat guy/gal that loses weight has performed a 'magical act", this act is one based on their will. They made a choice and created the change they desired. If doing a ritual, chanting a spell, or creating and firing a sigil allows you to create a change in consciousness, then this act motivates you to create an external change, that is magick. It is immaterial to the existence/non-existence of spirits/demons/angels, etc. So long as the act creates a change within the person. Think of magick as Ye Olde Self-Help.

This is something, I would probably consider as something added to what I originally thought of what magic could be described as, either by the two categories I always thought. And knowing your background in this, I find this fascinating as well as taking it seriously and it being from your input.  

There is a part of what you described, that I find in my belief system. Anything is more of able to acquire it, if you put work into it. I feel, that's what I do. The words, the practices, and other such things, I keep to myself, but I put work into it. Anything really, one really has to work for, right 

I strongly see your point, Xeno, and I thank you for your explanations and definitions of it.  I'm chalking this up, as something I might keep inside of me, and reflect on.